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nymx
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Greetings KietTezend's I want to point out a few things, which have been mentioned in this thread so far. For one, not seeing the bios start up sequence is a good indication that something could be carried over from a previous session that gives an advantage to the game play that wasn't demonstrated by a previous movie. Using a savestate properly can open up possibilities that can boost the performance of your movie; however, if a "Verification Run" is not supplied, unfair advantages can exist that do not represent the game's true capabilities. This would be necessary in order to prove that any savestate hasn't been altered by exterior tools, other than what the game produced. Apparently, this is not your intention...but just a note as to why your movie must have a clean start. Please see movie rules in regards to this scenario. http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#WeDoNotAllowSaveAnchoredMovies I am not familiar with this game, but Spikestuff has mentioned obvious flaws. Movement optimization is the highest priority of a submission. If a movie can be easily beaten by members of this site, judgement will be passed unfavorably to your efforts. One item that doesn't sell well for you submission is the low re-record count (1103). A normal amount of effort would show around 25% to 50% for the most common type of work produced. In rare occasions, re-records can exceed the movie length and beyond. I don't wish to discourage you, but this is the trend of new TASers. I can only encourage you to take the time necessary to prove that you have exhausted your knowledge of the game...to the point that your experimentation can show if alternate inputs can make changes for the best. One good point though, is that you have chosen a very good game to TAS. It would be great to see how far this can game can go, in terms of time. As it stands, this movie should be rejected for use of a savestate as a starting point. If it is possible to recover these inputs, as Spikestuff is hopeful of, then the next step is analyzing it for optimization...which apparently doesn't hold with the expectation of this community.[/url]
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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feos wrote:
Do you think a meaningful any% record is possible for this game, without caring about score explicity?
In normal sense, no; however, if this game exhibited avoidable lag...would that constitute an any% run to have as many of them removed, regardless of the score?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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arkiandruski wrote:
To be clear: I was not using the difficulty played as grounds for rejection. I was merely saying it isn't as black and white in this case.
No problem at all. The more discussions we have here, the more ammunition we will have to make a decision. Since our guidelines state that this has a chance, then there are other things to consider. Still sifting through...
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Post subject: Re: #6820: wesen's GBA Pink Panther: Pinkadelic Pursuit in 23:10.4
nymx
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slamo wrote:
I think the difficulty is not grounds for rejection in this case because of the uncertainty of which one is faster.
This certainly has merit; however, guidelines state: http://tasvideos.org/Guidelines.html#SelectYourDifficultyWell
Good reasons to use easier difficulties are: *More health for damage boosts *Less boring enemies leading to less lag *Faster bossfights on repetitive bosses, especially if their lower health can lead them to be one-cycled, and they are not interesting to fight for longer periods
wesen wrote:
As explained in the comments the under water boss takes 8 more hits in the hardest difficulty which was my main reason to use the easiest difficulty. I also pointed out the other differences to the hardest difficulty that I noticed in the comments. Overall it is a bit faster to use the easiest difficulty.
If this is the case, then the fights are extended to a boring amount of time, that really doesn't add to the entertainment. I see that this movie still has potential for acceptance.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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Samsara wrote:
Or, more accurately, a single sports game and 3 shooters, and maximum score is a perfectly valid and Vaultable goal in either case anyway.
I am in agreement with Samsara. If max score wasn't the goal here, then the only thing left for acceptance would be the entertainment level reaching moons...otherwise rejection. With a current 77% yes vote (my vote excluded currently), that would mean it is borderline in that area. But the author has correctly identified a suitable goal for submission...which rescues it from the fixed running time. (
Sports running with a fixed time, such as football, soccer, or basketball are not eligible.
)
Mog2 wrote:
It was interesting to see how the game "handled" points above 99, something they must have presumed would not be possible.
This is a good reason for a yes vote from me. In regards to an acceptance, I see that the optimization looks really good (timing shots to kill more than one enemy at a time, which in turn only supports a stronger Max-Score related goal). I recommend acceptance to vault with a branch supporting the only category possible for this game.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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Oh...so the Emperor got his clothes back and now he thinks he can dance? :P
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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Unofficial games are allowed under restrictions Hacks (defined as being an unofficial modification of an existing eligible game, released primarily in a downloadable format - usually a patch file) are not eligible for this category. We demand hacks with entertainment value, therefore they are judged by the Moon tier requirements.
This is a rule that wasn't so clear to me, as it is now. I'm seeing now that if we accept every bootleg, pirated, or hack of any game...we could have a massive flood of publications that could water down the intent of this site. If in fact this retains a low level of entertainment, then it would be vault related...which in this case would mean rejection.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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Well, my side-by-side with the WR speedrun shows some impressive cuts. At first glance, I thought it was easy enough to keep up with the speedrun...but you demonstrate great execution that edges out the human run. There is not much to point out, in terms of optimization, as every thing looks well done. The run is well paced and has the ability to keep an audience engaged. Being the first submission for this game, I recommend any% branch and set for moons.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Adding to Arc's assessment. I did a side-by-side comparison and noticed that the speedrun and this TAS don't seem to be the same. Not having played this game, I attribute this to either the game randomly going through backgrounds and bosses, or that it is just a different version. One thing to point out is that the ninja fight shows up in different orders , but they still exist. So I don't see a problem with the comparison among the RTA, as long as both runs exhibit the same content. Additionally, it seems that all the stages are on a fixed amount of scrolling time. As Arc stated, it would be nice to have more submission notes to analyze what was done to cut time. One item that I believe could be a factor is cutting lag; however, I don't see that lag is a factor...unless a frame of it exist upon hitting or killing an enemy. If this is the case, a frame of lag in these cases could mount up to a big saving by the end...if shooting it on a different frame would actually remove it. If this game didn't have any boss fights, I would say this autoscroller would be a trivial attempt, unless it was known that the end of each stage could be triggered quickly by killing the last seemingly scripted enemy appearance, or the aforementioned possibility of lag reduction. Because the author takes damage during boss fights, and the fact they they are vastly superior over any human effort, I also agree that this should be accepted to the vault.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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Mothrayas wrote:
Camera scrolling The most important aspect of optimization in this game is actually not so much the movement of the player, as it is the movement of the camera. Obviously the two are tied together, but advancing areas or spawning bosses generally depends on the position of the camera, so making sure the camera does not lag behind at any point is of utmost importance. Conveniently, it's rather easy to get ahead of the camera, especially when taking a turn towards a new area. If the character is ahead of the camera, the camera will keep scrolling at a consistent 2px/f pace as long as the character is facing forward or diagonally forward (with less wiggle room if facing diagonal), even if the character isn't actually moving. In the first few levels it's most obvious that the pace of the run is more dictated by the camera than by the player character, but later levels with more enemies make it significantly harder to move on unimpeded, so there still remain lots of challenges along the way.
This was the first thing that I noticed in the encode. I was wondering why there was momentary hesitations, but this explanation settles it for me.
Mothrayas wrote:
As a reference, bosses have just 4 frames of invincibility per hit, which means that for optimization purposes, the biggest limiting factor for damaging bosses is not the invincibility time, but rather the firing delay between projectiles. However, those 4 frames of invincibility do mean that it's not possible to do multi-hits with projectiles that reach the enemy at the same time. This renders most attacks like spread shots useless, as it's simply not possible most of the time to hit different spread shots with enough time in-between.
This is unfortunate, in the sense of a grand display of ammo barrages. To make reference, The Bomb Torizo in Super Metroid is one of the first bosses that I can think of that has this problem. Even though current TASes no longer deal with this particular fight, speed runners have to remain calm and not shoot missiles as quickly as possible. The cool down in this case is not so much of a problem, as the invincibility time is more of the concern; however, other bosses don't demonstrate that issue at all...particularly Phantoon, which can take them as fast as you can deliver them. I also discovered this recently, with a TAS that I'm currently working on, where it is possible to to hit an enemy with multiple ammunition...yet it doesn't have any collective productivity. So the challenge, as with this game, appears to be the careful timing between firing and delivery to ensure the fastest damage possible. To add complexity, different ammunition also has different delivery speeds which means you can sequence them in the right order to maximize the time spent. Great work. With a current vote of 3 (being all yes) and always moving for constant action, this is on track for a strong and higher level of moons. Looking forward to hearing from others on this. Yes vote.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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Well, I saw this coming. I figured those cuts you discovered would soon come out in this one. Nothing really to say, its all been made clear in your most recent publication. Great job...keep it up. :)
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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It has been a pleasure to see this run in development over the past 6 months or so. Having TASed this myself on a limited basis, I can certainly appreciate the work on areas that I wasn't able to get (mainly in the first few worlds). One of the big points I see is that the wall-jump (a humanly possible technique, yet very difficult and run killing if done in a risky situation) has certainly made a difference. Being 5 1/2 minutes faster is quite a feat...espeically since the human run is also done so well. Having played this game myself, when it first came out, I thoroughly impressed at your work. Great job and glad to see this released.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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wesen wrote:
CoolHandMike wrote:
"This run uses the easiest difficulty", is a point of concern.
As explained in the comments the under water boss takes 8 more hits in the hardest difficulty which was my main reason to use the easiest difficulty. I also pointed out the other differences to the hardest difficulty that I noticed in the comments. Overall it is a bit faster to use the easiest difficulty.
wesen has correctly made use of the rules. Not only is easy allowed, it goes further to explain why...which is the exact reason that wesen chose easy. It would only make the game longer, because of higher HP levels, which makes the game repetitive and slower; thus, dragging the game out and not holding the entertainment as much.
CoolHandMike wrote:
This game seems slow, but I don't know if this is optimized or not. Getting hit in the water level looks bad, but it may be faster.
I have noticed the same thing, mentioned by CoolHandMike. So, I took a look at your history and it is perfect, Your re-record count for each submission shows you are not just speeding through these difficult areas; however, I have chosen one spot to request an explanation of alternate methods used so that we can understand better, why getting hit by enemies is the fastest. Can you please give us a review at 2:43? I'm pretty sure your response could clear up any confusion as to why we have these concerns.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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Winslinator wrote:
You can play on the hardest loop by poking Main RAM address 71 to a value of 6 and you will start on Level 43. Similarly, poke address 6F to a value of 0-6 for the stage within the loop.
This gives me a head start, since I haven't even looked yet.
Winslinator wrote:
Side question, how would I be able to view the code for an Intellivision game like this?
Bizhawk has debugging tools to let you see the machine language that is being executed...which will be displayed as assembly. By already knowing some addresses you can discover what caused a change to that location. If it does...then it will be easy to figure out.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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This appears to be a really good effort. I think RetroEdit brings up a good point; however, the "baddies" are too spread apart to be able to make use of pounding the burger parts down further. On some levels, you are already walking the direction that will do so anyway, so it doesn't look to be an oversight. Waiting for them or grouping the up for a full stack to be pushed down, could take a lot more time than necessary. I also see that you manipulate the AI correctly. My favorite version to play, growing up, was on the Colecovision. I see the same similar techniques used to do so. Although I think I remember that the speed wasn't the only thing affect...I believe the way the AI responded was different. As for using the hardest level, I plan on looking at the code to see if the level increases afterward. Hopefully I can do that soon. In the mean-time...Great job.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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Hey Samsara. I actually was able to give this a small amount of time. Figured to get it out before I head to bed.
Samsara wrote:
This is noticeably suboptimal in a lot of places, and I've only watched the first stage.
  • The rerecord count is ridiculously low for a game like this. Piece order can be manipulated before each stage, but not in the middle of a stage, so a TAS would want to at least make sure that the piece order is suitable for a fast stage completion.
This part I completely agree with. As for piece manipulation, its unfortunate...but I think a plan would mitigate the lack of manipulation of drops for a faster run.
Samsara wrote:
[*] Speaking of fast stage completions, this is a Puyo Puyo style game (not exactly the same, but similar enough), and yet combos aren't being used or even set up in this TAS. The game has them and accounts for them. Not only is it far more impressive to set up a massive chain in advance, but it should also be much, much faster than just going for 3-in-a-row clears over and over.
This is probably the biggest concern as well; however, there are some things that I have noticed that might keep combinations from happening so quickly. (Of course, this would probably take a number of days for me to prove, by experimenting myself on the inputs) 1. Is the TAS trying to avoid getting "bombed" by the opponent? If that is the case, then clearing 3 at a time seems to be somewhat appropriate, yet still I believe some work can help to get around this. 2. If #1 is not the case, then another speed technique would be to build up a center platform (Like the Tetris TASes do) and perform the clearing near the top of the screen. 3. My first thought that this game is a combination of Kirby's Avalanche and Tetris Attack. :)
Samsara wrote:
[*] The input looks noticeably sloppy. Autofire looks like it's being used in places just to turn pieces, leading to situations where you use 5 B presses to turn a piece twice. At the beginning of the first stage, you turn and position pieces before you start fast dropping them, which loses time, and it looks like the only reason you stopped doing that is because you started holding Down for the entirety of the rest of the stage. It looks like you just did the entire run in "real time", but at a low speed, as opposed to using frame advance or TAStudio. The menuing at the beginning is optimal at least, but the random Start presses while waiting for "PRESS START!" to appear tell me that you didn't bother trying to correct them. It's only a minor nitpick, but it still leans into the sloppiness of the input. Nearly all of your text clearing input is overshot. The last actual input of the run happens at frame 142940, but the A button continues to be held for 5 more seconds after that, not to mention the almost 2 full minutes of blank frames at the very end.
I share the same appraisal on the menuing...couldn't find a spot that made it faster. The random "Start" presses confuses me as well. As for multiple B presses, I didn't really observe that. A and B seem to be used appropriately to rotate a piece into place. If B or A were over used, where time it takes to place the piece wasn't inhibited...then I see no problem.
Samsara wrote:
[*] This was done on the default difficulty (Monkey). Hardest difficulty should be used for a TAS like this, as it's much more impressive to see the domination of a difficult CPU opponent as opposed to an easy one. The faster drop speed on higher difficulties may even make the run shorter, since attack pieces don't drop in until a normal piece lands.
Right on! Always use Hardest level. It shows off the game with more dazzle.
Samsara wrote:
[*] On that note, the most directly comparable RTA run I could find (there's a much faster one on speedrun.com but it's on a different version of the game (Arcade), and appears to be on a different mode altogether)
I compared the TAS with this run and a unique situation occurs for the runner, as he states "I'll take that!". What happened was the run of luck of the way pieces fell on the opponent to the point where the CPU's drop couldn't advance. There was plenty of room, probably about 1/4 of the screen left. Even those this is not controllable by the player, it certainly can be done with the TAS on every round. To sum up, going for optimization in this game seems to be a little odd...depending on what needs to occur to wipe out the opponent. The biggest issue that I see is a lack of executing a plan, which the current plan is just taking on the computer by thinking one move ahead, rather than accounting for situations to avoid opponent obstacles, setting up for combinations, and trying to push the opponent off the screen early by noting the CPU's position and circumstance. On the first round here...the strategy used push the CPU to the very last space possible, which takes a longer time...especially for the cut scene of removing all the drops. I can only see that massive amounts of time can be cut from this...yet I see that the task to perform this would take months and months to accomplish, maybe even a year, of hard hard work.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
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Samsara wrote:
nymx wrote:
Samsara has outline a number of items that are clear red flags for optimization problems.
Would you mind taking a look at the movie yourself and verifying them? I saw you in the chat for the RTA run I linked, so I'm assuming you know enough about the game and speedrunning it to be able to confidently confirm/deny my suspicions.
Sure. I'll try and have a response by tomorrow.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Baddap1 wrote:
This is explained on the submission as ''Door Skip Glitch'', basically that's a manipulation for the enemy to take his shoot as soon as possible to do the Glitch.
Ok...great. Now I have the association to the glitch that is being discussed. I wasn't sure what it was related to. Thanks.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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166 frame improvement. Very nice. Seems like this is very well done, but at 2:15, you wander around a small bit. On the previous submission, this does not occur. Can you give an explanation on why this was done?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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LucianoTheWindowsFan wrote:
LucianoTheWindowsFan wrote:
CasualPokePlayer wrote:
From movie rules:
Must be clearly definable as a game, which has achievable goals
Should of waited til 4/1.
Oh no, it is gonna be rejected, I'm gonna do a TAS of Hebereke's Popoitto.
Alright, So instead, I did a TAS of Hebereke's Popoon.
Are you telling me that you started this TAS on the 23rd (yesterday)? Its been my experience, that TASes made so quickly will never get published. Samsara has outline a number of items that are clear red flags for optimization problems.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Rejected...you forgot to plug in the player 2 receiver for the super scope.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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XTREMAL93 wrote:
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Wouldn't be faster to use the Zapper?
I tried it in start and with Zapper game uses more frames for "Fire" than B button so I decided to use regular controller. Also these screen flashings from Zapper is annoying. Let it be "non-Zapper" category
This is interesting. I suppose its use introduces lag? Or just the routine of the zapper processing the spot emitted by the TV is a bit more heavy?
GJTASer2018 wrote:
The Speedrun.com leaderboards for this game also have the regular controller as faster than Zapper, so the regular controller should be the preferred input method.
I'm a little confused by your statement. The only two runs on speedrun.com show both to be using the "Zapper". It seems that you are stating that the preferred controller to use for this TAS would be to use the "D-Pad"? If so, I agree, otherwise I disagree with the use of the zapper, according to XTREMAL93's investigation. As with any TASes...the requirement should be to use the fastest method. ...and finally for XTREMAL93: My first thought..."This is purely an auto scroller". After comparing this to the speedruns for this game, I see now that the only time saved is at the end of each round, or a mid-way point that holds up the game for each so-called mission, mini-boss, or final boss. Honestly, I see that most of this game is trivial...in the sense that TASing this is easy to predict the emergence of enemies. It almost seems like the patterns are scripted. The only question I have is....Are these emerging enemies a result of RNG? The re-record count seems to suggest so, but that still doesn't completely prove it. Aside from all the above, this TAS does exhibit parts that are done extremely fast over the human runs. The difference between the RTA WR and this TAS is roughly 6 minutes. Yes vote for separating the two so clearly.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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tormented wrote:
Yep, there's no randomness in this game at all. All you have to do to proceed is collect enough items, which are always in the same place. Thrilling stuff. You're right, there isn't much in this TAS that I would say is worlds apart from what the best real-time run is. In my defense, though, this isn't a hard game to optimize; 50% of the run is just walking around the map, you always have enough health to take tons of damage from enemies, and Dash himself is so stiff that you have a lot of wiggle room to control him (just look at how long he takes to start moving after a jump, or climb a ladder). If you're able to memorize what to do, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to recreate a good chunk of this run on an actual NES, though obviously stuff like pressing the select button to deplete oxygen on the first frame every time is impossible. I should also mention that KHANanaphone, the guy who holds the real-time record for this game, has been doing speedruns of it for years and years, so he has it down to a science at this point. This is in sharp contrast to the TAS, which only has one publication. So it's one of those games where the real-time community is significantly ahead of TASVideos. Makes sense though. It sucks.
That's good enough for me. As usually, I have a different way of voting than most people on this site. Yes vote for improved cuts over current publication.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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A side-by-side comparison with the WR speedrun shows very little difference. It appears to be approximately 8 seconds faster, although it is hard to tell. In your text, you mention a few time saving techniques that help out, but they are shared with the human run. The only difference I see is the ability to execute the techniques on queue. Somethings I would ask... RNG doesn't seem to be a factor in this game. Can you elaborate? From the re-record count, it appears that this was only an optimized version that a human could possible achieve. What kind of experimentation did you perform to see if any more cuts could be made beyond RTA abilities?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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First off...great job on cutting so many frames off of the previous rejected submission. After I reviewed your encode and read the submission, it answered all the questions I had. My first thought was..."Why are you not trying for In-The-Park home runs, or even straight up home runs". It makes sense now that you have to wait on the CPU to decide what and when it will perform its pitch. As for the work of manipulating RNG...very good job. I think with some of my current TASing, it seems that I can clearly see why so much work had to be done in order to get every pitch done with as little waste as possible. A point that needs to be made on the previously rejected submission...you correctly started the game as the home team in order to pitch first...which saves you the time of having to play the bottom of the 9th. Now that you have the optimization up to snuff, the vault rules allow for this game to be accepted...since it doesn't have a time limit like other sports. Yes vote for getting it right.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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