Post subject: Deprecation of Snes9x -- Snes9x v1.43 is no longer accepted
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There were previous threads pushing this idea, especially for v1.43. It was announced 3 years ago that users should move onto something newer. Yet plenty of runs kept on being made with v1.43, despite how horrible the sound engine is in that, and that plenty of games aren't emulated quite right, even if you can complete them. We now have multiple accurate SNES emulators to choose from available on all platforms: lsnes and Bizhawk. They may be lacking certain features you want, if so, ask their developers to add them. You may be unused to their interfaces - get used to it. lsnes also allows you to input during any input frame, even if multiple input frames occur between any two given video frames, making things like the recent Chrono Trigger movie possible. We are deprecating use of Snes9x. I would like to say: "You have until December 31 2012 23:59 GMT to complete any runs you have started using Snes9x, no exceptions will be made, unless you have been granted a continuance on your existing run." and: "If you feel you have a long run that already had a lot of work put into it, and will need a while to be completed, you may request a continuance in this thread. We will accept continuances until December 15 2012 23:59 GMT." But if I said that, some people would probably explode. So I'm not going to say it outright. However, we will be disallowing Snes9x sometime in the future, even though no hard date is yet set. You've been warned. ---- EDIT [Mothrayas]: As of yet, the current ruling can be found here. Snes9x v1.43 is, as of now, no longer accepted unless it has been granted a continuance, or if there is proof that the movie was done before January 1st 2013. Snes9x v1.51 is, for the time being, still accepted.
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"However, we will be disallowing Snes9x sometime in the future" Is this an actual decision, or is it more Nach gonna Nach type stuff?
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I hope it does. Having one emulator to do all the runs, would be awesome.
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Screw the explosion. Just stay firm to the date and people be damned. You gave a fair and firm date... you gave a bit of time extension to be fair to those who have dedicated themselves to a movie... which is VERY Fair. Someone doesn't like it? Tough! Going to vow to never come here again because of it? Good! The site will continue to thrive and move forward. Going to stick around and adapt and show how much ass you can kick? Hot Skippy! We dropped Famtasia and look what happened. Oh snap, tons of FCEU and FCEUX submissions! Don't pussyfoot this Nach, be firm and carry on. Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
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Fabian wrote:
"However, we will be disallowing Snes9x sometime in the future" Is this an actual decision, or is it more Nach gonna Nach type stuff?
We seriously mean it this time. You'll note that Snes9x in its entirety has been deprecated across all site pages.
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Post subject: Re: Deprecation of Snes9x
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Nach wrote:
They may be lacking certain features you want...
Yeah, lsnes is lacking the ability to not make me want to gouge my eyes out. /signed everyone I've ever talked to who has tried using it. Snes9x is simple and easy to use for someone who knows next to nothing about computer tech. Until another emulator fulfills those qualifications, I don't care how accurate it is, if I have to get a degree in coding just to able to open the program, it isn't going to happen.
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3 months, are you kidding me? <sarcasm>Oh sure, I'll just quit work so I can finish my TAS that would normally take about a year given its history</sarcasm> I can understand if it were 1 year and 3 months, and I would agree with that, but 3 months is way too soon. Bizhawk won't work with WINE, and lsnes sucks. So at the moment, I have no other way to TAS.
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Carl Sagan wrote:
Nach wrote:
They may be lacking certain features you want...
Yeah, lsnes is lacking the ability to not make me want to gouge my eyes out. /signed everyone I've ever talked to who has tried using it. Snes9x is simple and easy to use for someone who knows next to nothing about computer tech. Until another emulator fulfills those qualifications, I don't care how accurate it is, if I have to get a degree in coding just to able to open the program, it isn't going to happen.
Bizhawk is very user friendly and I'd argue even more so than snes9x. I'll agree LSNES is not but still a very good emu, despite its UI.
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Anyone tested a recent version of lsnes? If I remember correctly Ilari changed some of the GUI to make it easier to use.
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Pasky13 wrote:
Bizhawk is very user friendly and I'd argue even more so than snes9x. I'll agree LSNES is not but still a very good emu, despite its UI.
Yeah you're right, I had only tried lsnes. Bizhawk is looking great so far -- what is supposed to be better about it for snes games? I'll play with it with Yoshi's Island now.
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Carl Sagan wrote:
Pasky13 wrote:
Bizhawk is very user friendly and I'd argue even more so than snes9x. I'll agree LSNES is not but still a very good emu, despite its UI.
Yeah you're right, I had only tried lsnes. Bizhawk is looking great so far -- what is supposed to be better about it for snes games? I'll play with it with Yoshi's Island now.
It uses the same SNES bsnes core LSNES (including the patches made by Illari for BSNES for re-recording). My actraiser 2 TAS sync'd perfectly in bizhawk and it was made in LSNES. What's supposed to be better? More accurate SNES emulation over snes9x, better tools for the user (improved lua interface, watch system, memory browser/hex editor/ram search rewind support, list goes on).
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Why hasn't LSNES a good TAS Editor yet. BizHawk has one, but I don't like it to much, cause of the user interface. The FCEUXs 1.1.6 TAS Editor is the best I've seen so far.
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Warepire wrote:
Anyone tested a recent version of lsnes? If I remember correctly Ilari changed some of the GUI to make it easier to use.
Yeah, there have been a fair number of changes, on areas like:
  • ROM loading
  • DnD of ROMs and movies/savestates
  • Memory watching
  • Memory searching
  • Menus
  • Savestate anchoring
  • Read-only mode
TASeditor wrote:
Why hasn't LSNES a good TAS Editor yet.
Classical TAS editor would need to savestate every frame, which is pretty nasty with bsnes core (alters sync). I had an idea for something that could be used for editing input, but wouldn't require loads of savestating, but haven't even tried implementing that yet.
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Deprecating an old emulator is always a good idea. It makes life easier for the emulator developers. And switching to LSNES will increase chances for console verification for sure. And I also don't like what seems to happen because of the inaccuracies of Snes9x -- some movies were optimized for emulator-dependant lag, at least I think so. The biggest problem for me are the very high requirements for LSNES -- "fast forward" speed there is 50% realtime speed for me, Snes9x gives 1000% realtime speed. Well, and I fast-forwarded a few hundred times through my movies... And: While I agree that the UI of LSNES isn't as user-friendly as Snes9x, you will get used to it. All the important functions can be used by hotkeys anyway, so there is no big difference during the actual movie making. I guess that the last Snes9x movie on this site will be Yoshis Island 100%. (I think the WIP won't sync on LSNES or Bizhawk, and restarting this movie is far too much work.) And I think we shouldn't allow anyone to START new Snes9x movies anymore. This is a rule that absolutely everyone will understand. By the way: I didn't know that Bizhawk actually has support for SNES, the Bizhawk page also doesn't tell about that.
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partyboy1a wrote:
I guess that the last Snes9x movie on this site will be Yoshis Island 100%. (I think the WIP won't sync on LSNES or Bizhawk, and restarting this movie is far too much work.) And I think we shouldn't allow anyone to START new Snes9x movies anymore. This is a rule that absolutely everyone will understand.
Super Mario World 100% and Super Demo World 100% also has too much work done. Restarting them would be a pain in the ass for the TASers
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partyboy1a wrote:
By the way: I didn't know that Bizhawk actually has support for SNES, the Bizhawk page also doesn't tell about that.
Fixed. I'm kind of bummed some of the greatest runs-to-be (like the aforementioned YI 100%) won't be (re)done on bsnes-based emulators in foreseeable future, but I guess that was unavoidable. Then again, with main body of research and optimization done once, subsequent improvements will be an order of magnitude simpler (see AoS 100%)—a matter of time before people attempt to do them.
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Am I correct in assuming that lsnes and BizHawk use the bsnes compatibility core?
partyboy1a wrote:
The biggest problem for me are the very high requirements for LSNES -- "fast forward" speed there is 50% realtime speed for me, Snes9x gives 1000% realtime speed.
What are your system specs?
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creaothceann wrote:
Am I correct in assuming that lsnes and BizHawk use the bsnes compatibility core?
The builds of lsnes I have done recently all have used compatibility core. But it is possible to make a custom build against accuracy core (which runs at about half the speed of compatibility).
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dnnzao wrote:
partyboy1a wrote:
I guess that the last Snes9x movie on this site will be Yoshis Island 100%.[...]
Super Mario World 100% and Super Demo World 100% also has too much work done. Restarting them would be a pain in the ass for the TASers
Oh, almost forgot about them. But as I said, we shouldn't START new runs with Snes9x. FINISHing existing WIPs is OK, no matter how long it takes. Well, I hope that not a single Snes9x WIP becomes abandoned, this would make it really complicated.
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Although I have no idea about the whereabouts of OGA and smns72 and their Kirby Super Star any% WIP, I'd like to request a continuance on their behalf. Their WIP has been in the works since forever, progress just stopped completely 60% through the game. It would make me very happy if they'd finish the job... Also, despite these deprecation announcements, I think even if their WIP is finished past some deadline, and even if it be in 2016, their work should obsolete the terribly outdated current run. Kirby Super Star emulates alright enough in 1.43.
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Thanks Ilari. By the way, are TASes on new emulators going to trump the ones on old emulators even if they're slower?
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Yes, in theory. If a new movie is of superior technical quality and a real "improvement", but still slower due to lag differences, you will see a longer movie obsolete a shorter movie. Note that this scenario has already happened with some SNES9x 1.51 movies obsoleting some 1.43 movies.
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...As well as Famtasia and FCEU(X).
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