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General description

  • Aim for fastest time
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Use game bug and keep the music in boss fight
  • Try to make the TAS with more entertainment
  • Take the advantage of JPN version and achieve 295 frames ahead of Scumtron's movie.

The reason for using JPN version.

1.Use password to begin stages,5 frames faster than pressing start button.
2.A new glitch which allows Ryu to climb edge of platform and pass in shorter time will appear due to use of password.
3.Because of some differences of weapon in JPN,the TAS looks smoother and cooler.

Bad part of JPN version.

1.1 Frame lag when stage transfers.
2.Sometimes position is not convenient.

Improvements

Stage 1: 25 frames faster.
Stage 2: 26 frames faster (Ryu needn't enhance his sword in 2-2B,instead he get true dragon sword in 2-2D).
Stage 3: 37 frames faster (A more excited boss fighting can be achieved for the sake of version difference).
Stage 4: 20 frames faster.
Stage 5: 120 frames faster (Slash boss through screen,the trick can also be utilized in US version).
Stage 6: 18 frames faster (Better 6-1 and smoother routine choice due to weapon's different).
Stage 7: 49 frames faster (Differet wall climbing choice in 7-2A and 7-3C).
For more details, please watch the comparison encode by Bernka.

Some useful memory address

00FD:X position
00DB:Scroll X position
04FE:X subpixel
00DA:Scroll X subpixel
055E:X speed
00FE:Y position
0083:Scroll Y position
0576:Y subpixel
00DE:Scroll X subpixel
05D6:Y speed
00A8:BOSS HP
049C:shield of final boss
00AD:invincible time
0476:invincible timer of firewheel

Personal Encode:

Remarks:

The randomness of NG3 is very strong which can be reflected in the change of Ryu's subpixel.Any difference of time and location of Ryu's acting will affect the game process.
Enjoy!:)

feos: All agree it is a great run, but the J version of the game was not preferred over the more difficult U one. Rejecting, as explained here. Looking forward to the U run improvements!

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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #4104: Rum's NES Ninja Gaiden 3 in 11:05.92
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Great run, definitely a YES vote!
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Can you upload it to Mediafire or something like that?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting. If TASing is meta-play, TASVideos Movie Rules are meta-meta-play!
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Thank you for the comparison encode, Bernka! Rum, nice job improving one of my favorite runs on this site. I think you were a little less entertaining in 2-2C's autoscroller, but everything else was really interesting. The third and fifth bosses were especially good.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
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Very nice improvement! The autoscroller could have been more entertaining, but other than that, great run!
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lovely movie thank u
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This was awesome and very unexpected! The only thing to think about is whether it should be a separate branch from the (U) version. It's somewhat subtle if you are watching the TAS but if you play yourself it will be really obvious that (J) is quite a bit easier. The sword extension and ninja magic powerups are more abundant and more conveniently placed. There are also fewer enemies, making some situations a bit easier. That accounts for a lot of the minor improvements, certainly way more than the 5 frame savings of the password at start. It also looks like enemy damage is less and spikes only take off 3 bars instead of 6. That is a big deal on the levels where HP management becomes an issue. If you watch the current run you'll see that there are many more hits taken due to how much harder the game is and some levels are finished with only 1-2 bars. This run only takes damage a few times the whole game. The trick used on boss 3 is probably also possible on the (U) version but it requires sword extension. On (U) the only sword powerup on level 3 is way too far out of the way. So for practical purposes, that trick is actually not possible on (U). This run is still awesome and my vote is yes but I think this should either be a separate branch or separate game because it basically is a different game.
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TheAxeMan wrote:
This run is still awesome and my vote is yes but I think this should either be a separate branch or separate game because it basically is a different game.
Is it really too different to be in the same branch? I mean, if a regional version had glitches that allowed you to basically skip the entire game that's patched in another region, then that sounds reasonable. But in this case, it kinda sounds like the case for Dragon's Lair. :P
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Ok, so saying it is a different game is going a little too far. But it is at least like playing on an easier mode. In that case we either only accept hardest mode or do a separate branch. Also, Dragon's Lair might not be a good comparison. That game is really crappy and switching to J cuts it by half. Ninja Gaiden/Ryukenden is awesome and this switch is only worth about 2 seconds. I guess the main thing is that I knew back when I did this game many years ago that J was faster but picked U because it is harder and the site's guidelines are to prefer U and hardest mode. I'm sure Scumtron and others were aware of this as well. Just wanted to make sure everyone knew before deciding how to classify this.
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Looks like it's going to spawn a tight discussion about what gameplay features automatically make this run faster. It's just before, we only were speaking about dialogs or mid-room lag on that matter, since it's the cheapest way and must not be accounted as an improvement. Now, the run kind of deliberately picks the easier version and benefits by time. But does it match the tech level of the current movie? I mean, since the latter uses the harder difficulty, it showcases more tech value unless it misses some improvement possible in the U version. I was in somewhat similar situation with this movie: [1930] NES Zen: Intergalactic Ninja by feos in 11:34.21 The previous one used the medium difficulty, and if I switched to hard, my improvements would become uncountable, due to losses in different places. So I picked the same difficulty to know for sure what I improved and what I didn't improve. However, this run was accepted as a tech and entertainment improvement over the predecessor: [945] Genesis Gunstar Heroes "2 players" by arkiandruski in 35:28.92 despite of being slower in real time for using the hardest difficulty.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting. If TASing is meta-play, TASVideos Movie Rules are meta-meta-play!
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feos wrote:
I was in somewhat similar situation with this movie: [1930] NES Zen: Intergalactic Ninja by feos in 11:34.21 The previous one used the medium difficulty, and if I switched to hard, my improvements would become uncountable, due to losses in different places. So I picked the same difficulty to know for sure what I improved and what I didn't improve. However, this run was accepted as a tech and entertainment improvement over the predecessor: [945] Genesis Gunstar Heroes "2 players" by arkiandruski in 35:28.92 despite of being slower in real time for using the hardest difficulty.
Well, there are 7 movies listed that uses the easiest difficulty. I wonder if any of those cases could be applied here in one way or another.
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This run looks not bad,but there is three reason make me vote no. Reason1,I don't think ths run is made by Rum own.All the improvment is discovered by someone else.Rum just copied the input in password mode.It's not an original works. Reason2,this topic is about Ninja Gaiden 3,Marx(Posted: 2012-04-14 18:20:26)gived a possible how to zip inside the wall.We can't do this in (U),but it may be implemented in (J),just only in password mode.This means if the (J) can be published instead of (U),this run can still be improved a little. Reason3, Here is one question I posted six year old about (J) or (U).After studying the rules,I don't think there is a enough reason using Ninja Gaiden 3(J) in here.Since some improvment can also be utilized in (U),why don't we make a new tas with (U) instead of (J)?
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jlun2 wrote:
Well, there are 7 movies listed that uses the easiest difficulty. I wonder if any of those cases could be applied here in one way or another.
These seem to be cases like: 1) Fighting enemies isn't interesting/and creates more lag, so we choose the easiest difficulty. 2) There are TASes for both difficulties. 3) All the difficulty does is grant more HP and thus make things take more time, so we choose the easiest difficulty. I'm pretty sure it works like this: If playing on hardest difficulty introduces tedium and artificial length rather than interestingly changing the strategies and planning required, then an easier difficulty should be chosen. Otherwise, the hardest difficulty should be chosen.
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I don't think xipo is right, indeed I referenced Scumtron’s run and xipo’s improved (J) version run, but I believe most of tasers should reference existed run they knew, and make the run more faster, like xipo just submitted “Super C 1 player” run. I also have my discovers and work about this tas, not just copied from them, the re-record count can point out that for me. I also understood the difference between (J) and (U) version, I just want to know which version people prefer to watch.
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jlun2 wrote:
Well, there are 7 movies listed that uses the easiest difficulty. I wonder if any of those cases could be applied here in one way or another.
Yeah, none of them obsoletes the harder difficulty run which is exactly the matter here. If people prefer speed over all the rest (once they didn't), it will be accepted. If they prefer the difficulty (and the U version), I"ll have to reject it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting. If TASing is meta-play, TASVideos Movie Rules are meta-meta-play!
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feos wrote:
Yeah, none of them obsoletes the harder difficulty run which is exactly the matter here. If people prefer speed over all the rest (once they didn't), it will be accepted. If they prefer the difficulty (and the U version), I"ll have to reject it.
Thanks. Knowing this, I think the hardest difficulty should be used since I usually find using tool-assistance on the easiest settings usually doesn't show clear, superhuman play (of course, there are exceptions, but this situation reminds me of Megaman 2's case).
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Yeah now I regret casting my yes vote if Scumtron's run was played on harder difficulty.
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Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
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I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
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I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
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Hmm... I don't know what to say about this one. First, as I mentioned earlier, I like this run. It's good to see Ninja Gaiden 3 get an improvement after a few years. However, can we get any more specific information about what timesavers would be possible in the harder (U) version? For instance, if the new strategies on Bosses 3 and 5 can be done on the (U) version, then it sounds like the best plan here is to attempt a run on the (U) version. Another option would be to publish this for now, but allow it to be obsoleted later by a run on the (U) version of similar quality. That might be a little confusing though. One last option is to link this submission from the US run, like we've done with goals like the 16-star run in SMB64.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
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Well, Guidelines say:
Where a game has multiple difficulty levels, it is preferred to play on the hardest difficulty level (for more interesting gameplay) unless the only difference between difficulty levels is enemy/boss hit points, in which case the easiest difficulty levels are preferred in the interest of speed. If the difference in difficulty is inapplicable for your run, for example, you trigger the end game sequence right from the start, then selecting the hardest mode is unnecessary.
There also was #1654: Xipo's NES Ninja Gaiden 2 in 09:14.05 that was rejected despite of being faster. Here, people didn't prefer the J version of the game, which is easier, even though the run itself is very well done. So I can't quite obsolete the current run by this one. We can't publish this as a separate branch either, because the actual difference is hardly noticeable for a viewer. There is a movie tagged "hard mode", but it's not about difficulty, it's a second quest. So I'll reject this submission and will hope the author goes on and improves the U version as well.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting. If TASing is meta-play, TASVideos Movie Rules are meta-meta-play!
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Devil's Advocate: The J version of SM64 is harder than the E version because it fixes BLJ (and I think some other things). If a well done run came along of SM64 120 star on the J version, would it obsolete the currently existing run because it is a 'harder difficulty'? Or are 'harder difficulty by design' and 'harder difficulty due to less glitchiness' different?
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Patashu wrote:
Devil's Advocate: The J version of SM64 is harder than the E version because it fixes BLJ (and I think some other things). If a well done run came along of SM64 120 star on the J version, would it obsolete the currently existing run because it is a 'harder difficulty'? Or are 'harder difficulty by design' and 'harder difficulty due to less glitchiness' different?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHop9Ao3qMQ Er......what?
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Glitches don't count for "difficulty", and we have plenty of runs that choose specific versions of a game for the glitches they enable. Symphony of the Night is a notable example.
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jlun2 wrote:
Patashu wrote:
Devil's Advocate: The J version of SM64 is harder than the E version because it fixes BLJ (and I think some other things). If a well done run came along of SM64 120 star on the J version, would it obsolete the currently existing run because it is a 'harder difficulty'? Or are 'harder difficulty by design' and 'harder difficulty due to less glitchiness' different?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHop9Ao3qMQ Er......what?
You're right, I'm thinking of the J version that's in VC (the one that added rumble pak functionality). Sorry for the oversight.
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om, nom, nom