Glitch : I stayed on poison water and some other obstackles for several frames. It can be due to two causes - due to immediate movements of frog or it depends on framerule kind of system in game.
Original TAS time : 47.937*
Old explanation for the demo version below :
Hello!
I made this TAS using BizHawk 2.6.2 in the TAS Studio.
There's not enough information about this TAS to explain, it is just tapping buttons too fast so that it can reach the goal.
We have to fill 5 goal spots by placing the frog in that pit.
Its only one level because I don't like paying for games (I'm a school boy), hence, Demo Only. It is a fan game, can be viewed on : https://youtu.be/oYR1e0oycN4
There's also a slow motion for this TAS I've published on YT : https://youtu.be/7cikbqZuNlA
feos: As discussed in the thread, this game has a little bit more TAS potential, and it's short enough to afford easy route testing.
The main thing I noticed is how much leading the frog to a different slot can save. I entered level 4 with only 15 frames saved, used whatever slot ordering looked intuitive and reduced my improvement to like 4 frames due to waiting. Then I swapped the last 2 slots and saved 200 frames with little to no effort. Another thing is really getting at the very edge of a platform so you can jump in the new moving platform sooner.
Rejecting for now, and hoping to see my test times beaten!
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 932
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
I'm curious, but in this situation...you would have to play more than one level for this to satisfy the rules. If there is no end in sight, hence a looping game, you'll have to at least TAS the game until the difficulty no longer increases. The RTA video that you posted, shows a dramatically different level on round 2. This is an indicator that new content still exists and that further inputs are needed to showcase the full content of the game.
If your intent was to truly demo the game for this community, it would be better that you post this as a WIP. That way, anyone interested could give feedback.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Joined: 7/3/2021
Posts: 147
Location: Udaipur, Rajasthan, India, God'sBeautifulWorld
nymx wrote:
I'm curious, but in this situation...you would have to play more than one level for this to satisfy the rules. If there is no end in sight, hence a looping game, you'll have to at least TAS the game until the difficulty no longer increases. The RTA video that you posted, shows a dramatically different level on round 2. This is an indicator that new content still exists and that further inputs are needed to showcase the full content of the game.
I truly wanted to TAS it completely but being a school student, I can't afford purchasing games. Sorry, if this condition isn't accepted here.
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 932
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
MrTASer wrote:
I truly wanted to TAS it completely but being a school student, I can't afford purchasing games. Sorry, if this condition isn't accepted here.
If you like, I would be willing to help you with any questions. Feel free to contact me privately.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
First of all, the game name in the submission is wrong. It's actually "Ultimate Frogger Champion", not "Ultimate Frogger Championship".
Second, this is a homebrew game, a fact that is not clear in the submission and may affect judging.
Third, the creator of this homebrew, Kevin Hanley, released the full version for free on their website back in 2020, so the budget argument against it is invalid.
Finally, I would also like to point out that a senior judge requested you 2 weeks ago to hold off from doing new submissions for the time being because they were overwhelmed, and you still have 3 other submissions that have yet to be processed.
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6440
Location: The land down under.
Fun fact: The author started the game a frame too early meaning you never get to see this message at the end of the level:
The only reason I bring this fact up, is because this same bug exists in the final release where starting a frame too early means you won't progress to the next level.
And as SmashManiac mentioned the creator, Kevin Hanley released the final version on their site.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
Joined: 7/3/2021
Posts: 147
Location: Udaipur, Rajasthan, India, God'sBeautifulWorld
Spikestuff wrote:
Fun fact: The author started the game a frame too early meaning you never get to see this message at the end of the level
I saw this message before TASing it.
When I read, buying it, I felt "ok, it's demo I downloaded, to play full I have to buy it"
Sorry, That was my fault.
Even if the full version wasn't free, I don't think that "I don't want to pay for games" is a good argument for using a partial/demo version of any game. There's plenty of famous freeware games available that can be fully TAS'ed: about 90% of all windows games on this site and almost half of all DOS games are freeware.
Fun fact: The author started the game a frame too early meaning you never get to see this message at the end of the level:
The only reason I bring this fact up, is because this same bug exists in the final release where starting a frame too early means you won't progress to the next level.
Wait, am I to understand that the demo version contains the full game and could theoretically be beaten 1 frame faster because of this quirk? O_o
Third, the creator of this homebrew, Kevin Hanley, released the full version for free on their website back in 2020, so the budget argument against it is invalid.
I've tried to google his name and this game name but found no availability to obtain it. The product is discontinued on retrousb (original first party). Since it's only obtainable by first party as a free version, would you mind sharing the link and post it here? Thanks!
And I hope MrTASer will try it because frogger flashing through obstacles on the highway and the waters is very good.
edit: thanks for sharing the link Bigbass!
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Kevin Hanley, released the full version for free on their website back in 2020
I've tried to google his name and this game name but found no availability to obtain it. The product is discontinued on retrousb (original first party). Since it's only obtainable by first party as a free version, would you mind sharing the link and post it here? Thanks!
I'd love to see a full version (all levels) - still a yes vote for now, even if it's sketchy. This is already a really nice throwback.. Frogger is my childhood, so doing it fully would be really a welcome sight : )
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6440
Location: The land down under.
Excuse me for asking, but why is the first level slower than the demo's input by 15 frames?
In every right comparison there shouldn't have been lost time here instead it would've matched-- well a frame of lost time due to what I wrote earlier.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
Joined: 7/3/2021
Posts: 147
Location: Udaipur, Rajasthan, India, God'sBeautifulWorld
Spikestuff wrote:
Excuse me for asking, but why is the first level slower than the demo's input by 15 frames?
In every right comparison there shouldn't have been lost time here instead it would've matched-- well a frame of lost time due to what I wrote earlier.
As you said that pressing start on the first frame doesn't loads the later levels, hence I started a frame late and I even tried to paste exact inputs but the situation had changed and became more difficult.
I was unable to improve it anymore
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6440
Location: The land down under.
Using the demo's input to showcase a quick and dirty convert to demonstrate my point, 10 frames faster on that first level with your input slightly adjusted.
It's so quick and dirty that I didn't fix the hashes.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
Joined: 7/3/2021
Posts: 147
Location: Udaipur, Rajasthan, India, God'sBeautifulWorld
Spikestuff wrote:
Using the demo's input to showcase a quick and dirty convert to demonstrate my point, 10 frames faster on that first level with your input slightly adjusted.
It's so quick and dirty that I didn't fix the hashes.
If you're talking about that little improvement of several frames, it gave me an intense difficulty in 4th and 5th level. That difficulty doesn't give chance to do anything, my used glitches also didn't worked then.
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6440
Location: The land down under.
MrTASer wrote:
That difficulty doesn't give chance to do anything, my used glitches also didn't worked then.
I have to call shenanigans on this claim, well actually to be exact this line in the submission text:
MrTASer wrote:
I stayed on poison water and some other obstackles for several frames.
This is actually quite an easy one to do when you realize what's up.
It's due to either the fact that a set of turtles weren't being drawn in due to an oversight, or that they shouldn't have been drawn in at all so this was the easiest way to convey to the player that they don't exist is to remove them from being drawn in.
This raises two things for me which is both in the field of "care".
It might be better to actually go at this again with a lua script drawing in every vehicle, turtle, log and crocodile, know their hitboxes and actually use that to your advantage (or if you want to go the nymx route, bot everything)
Your demo file is actually faster than your userfile file in Level 1 and this can be seen cause this was made roughly five days after getting the link from Bigbass, and like there's no revisions, there was no checking about cycles, knowing about the crocodile's mouth, literally the hitboxes knowing what other hidden things exist-- like I'm stumped by the author. Like you're a good TASer, I've seen you improve from your starters, but you're not completely committing to it, so you're leaving me confused.
I know I'm probably stepping on a lot of Staff rules right now especially since this is practically backseating Judges, but it didn't sound right cause to me the author didn't really convey the information.
Like it's a short enough TAS that it should be able to squeeze out a bit more from it.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6440
Location: The land down under.
MrTASer did have a response but only left it as a DM.
Since it's information that should be brought up in the thread I'm placing it here and leaving it as is cause my previous post basically covers for what's written here.
MrTASer wrote:
Hi,
After reading your post, what I understood was that you want me to use LUAs and stuff to find out the actual causes of the glitched like other TASers and explain everything I've done.
I agree it but after being very new to all this, I have only 2 yrs experience in TASing and my high school education are also going on hence I can't afford spending high proportions of time in learning LUA and complete game mechanics. I started with TASing SMB and thats what made me to here. I will try my best to improve this and get to your point
Sorry if I didn't catched it correctly because I just know english, it's not native to me...
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
This game is annoying. Saved about 40 frames in the first 2 levels, then it was reduced to 2 frames in the middle of level 3, and then I saved a bit more and level 4 starts 15 frames sooner.
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/637816761628744912
I couldn't find any invisible turtles in the first 3 levels.
Maybe object patterns can be manipulated to change, but I only got slight shifting by adding frame delays before the level starts.
This game requires a certain optimization technique. You can only move on a square grid. But platforms move slowly. So in places where you have to wait, you need to adjust your timing to be able to get closer to the very edge of the platform. Then when you arrive to a new platform, you're now closer to it, so you can jump on it sooner.
In addition to that, one should test various paths, because objects on the road can allow for a whole bunch of paths, and one can be faster than another.
MrTASer, would you like to try beating my times and learn techniques I used to beat yours?
PS: Figuring out object hitboxes can indeed be really hard if you don't know assembly language and debugging. I'd rather just manually test those things here.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 7/3/2021
Posts: 147
Location: Udaipur, Rajasthan, India, God'sBeautifulWorld
feos wrote:
This game requires a certain optimization technique. You can only move on a square grid. But platforms move slowly. So in places where you have to wait, you need to adjust your timing to be able to get closer to the very edge of the platform. Then when you arrive to a new platform, you're now closer to it, so you can jump on it sooner.
In addition to that, one should test various paths, because objects on the road can allow for a whole bunch of paths, and one can be faster than another.
I knew that and try several paths possible to get fastest to the goal and also tried different goals points to find the faster oneFeos wrote:
MrTASer, would you like to try beating my times and learn techniques I used to beat yours?
Sorry, I'm just a young school student, more improvements are if I'm correct, beyond my capacity to manipulate and optimize.Also, my studies now, not give me that time.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Since the game is so short, I completed the last 2 levels too. Full improvement is 312 frames.
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/637817528248831250
I think even without checking every delay and how it affects the new level layout, testing which slot you want to take when is simple enough that losing 300 frames in such a short game feels like too much. At least I showcased this game's potential a bit more, so hopefully the author will get back to it in the future.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
The only reason I bring this fact up, is because this same bug exists in the final release where starting a frame too early means you won't progress to the next level.
And as SmashManiac mentioned the creator, Kevin Hanley released the final version on their site.
