gia
Experienced Forum User, Player (109)
Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223
Glitchy TAS of 2008Innovative TAS of 2008Lucky TAS of 2008
hanzou wrote:
Having Ditto late in the game is a real drawback, but there are other possibilities for getting an enemy pokemon to do Transform. What about Metronome? What about learning Transform then getting an enemy to do Mirror Move? What about learning Metronome then getting an enemy to do Mirror Move?
Mirror move fails if you switch (or faint) so fearow cant transform into Nidoking. So at least using mew it wouldn't be possible. Now not sure if theres a fading pokemon that can bring metronome (because if you jump to 100 you dont learn new moves) and have the required special. afaik only clefairy but at lvl 31, and Metronome as a tm is at cinnabar just like ditto so... just rush surf and get to cinnabar. Unless of course theres a lvl 31+ clefairy or there's a trainer pkmn with the ditto special, you can always faint against the pkmn if it isnt the last one. Hanzou, I couldn't navigate the glitched item menu like you did, I hit the "bottom" much sooner than you do, you can go several pages down, me can't. Basically when I hit it any up/down presses stop working and I may only leave the menu. By continuing after you retrieved HM02 there was now a "ceiling", could you please explain how to navigate the menu. I was trying to find HM02 in the glitched items but couldn't, I can't navigate it anyway. In any case I read a report that Glitch City takes you to the exit of the secret house in Route 16, not sure if that would be faster than going to Bill then getting cut then cutting stuff. </yellow>
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Expert player (2258)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3825
Location: Germany
Gameboy TASer of 2015NES TAS of 2013Gameboy TASer of 2011Gameboy TASer of 2010
That's a nice glitch, and I was amazed by the posts which gave me thoughts like "Pokemon in 20 minutes without warping WTF!" as the posts were written here. I'll follow future progresses. One question, why can't you "chain" trainer/fly glitches? What does this mean at all (chaining trainer/fly glitches)?
could you please explain how to navigate the menu.
If you can't continue to navigate through the menu, press B ~ 4 times and try again.
Experienced Forum User, Player (85)
Joined: 1/15/2006
Posts: 333
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
MUGG wrote:
One question, why can't you "chain" trainer/fly glitches? What does this mean at all (chaining trainer/fly glitches)?
The idea is that you would use a pokémon produced from one trainer/fly glitch as the 'trigger' for the second; in this instance to produce a Ditto the first time, allow it to use transform on a pokémon with the special you actually want, and the complete a second trainer/fly glitch. The problem is, you would need to have both active at once, and completely the first cancels the second, unfortunately. I've done some experimentation with reproducing this glitch in Pokémon Blue, and it does work. However, a problem I've been experiencing is that after 10 step, one of my pokémon 'faints', at which point the game locks up. Perhaps this is because of where/how I'm performing the glitch? Another value I've found to work, other than the four hanzou mentioned, is 200 (hex C8). This is particularly interesting, because the endless inventory is activated during the battle (without even needing to deposit a pokémon and healing). I'll be experimenting a bit more later and posting an example vid.
print reduce(lambda x,p:p/2*x/p+2*10**1000,range(6643,1,-2))
gia
Experienced Forum User, Player (109)
Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223
Glitchy TAS of 2008Innovative TAS of 2008Lucky TAS of 2008
I swear I posted a very detailed post yesterday... I'm not typing all that again, this may be better anyway... necrosaro's research has the wild pokemon for RBY per area, using those I found the wild pokemon possibilities to get a glitched ditto. If you want any other pkmn I can tell quickly. It doesn't include trainer pkmn so if you have such a list it please send it to me (it would have to include pkmn stats and moves), I can even work it out from an hex dump, I just don't know the "addresses" and how to copy the data. Now I know you can't chain glitches but glitching ditto is still "useful". This lists options and they aren't in strict order, I don't know what combination gives the fastest result on each R, B and Y: 1. Get nidoking or whatever pkmn you'll use for zzazz. Play until cerulean. Optional: meet bill, SS Anne captain, get cut and teach it to one of your pkmn. Cut is not necessary, but could be faster. Mimic: No pkmn learns it by lvl up so no use here. Metronome: Clefairy at level 31, Clefable at lvl 0. No wild or trainer clefairy at those lvls (there's a lvl 30 iirc). Clefable has high glitch special so no use either. Transform Source: Only Mew and Ditto may learn transform. a. glitch lvl 7 mew, give it three rare candies to get transform. b. (yellow)(cut) glitch ditto using lvl 27 kadabra iv12,13 at route 8. c. glitch ditto using haunters at 5f/6f pokemon tower (loses gary's fearow). d. glitch ditto using some trainer I dont know. e. meet wild ditto (no need to use mirror move, yellow is a bit far). zzazz with MM: Only spearow line learns MM early. Pidgeot line has to wait a lot. Can't glitch a mm pkmn because no one learns it at low lvl and can't chain glitches. a. Gary's fearow @Pokemon Tower has mirror move. Problem: you have to lose to fearow, that is your lvl 100 nidoking lose to lvl 25 nidoking. b. Route 16/17/18 has spearow lvl 22+ and fearow lvl 25+ which have MM. c. Possibly some trainer with spearow lvl 22. How to do zzazz with MM: Before, I had tested switching and fainting after using transform, they don't work. But duh it can miss. Use transform and miss, next round stay there and get the enemy transformed into ditto/mew (they attack first), finally switch to nidoking while the enemy uses their own transform. Paralyzation doesn't work, it has to miss. Finish zzazz, all badges code is D3 so badges shouldn't be a problem. There's the surfboard too. Now I have no idea if HM02 is there as well. Getting HM02: a. It gets glitched with zzazz. b. Use Nickname? to go through the wall and get HM02. c. Keep going to fuchsia, perform glitch city and end your steps at route 17, that will teleport you to HM02. d. (cut) use cut to get HM02, perhaps from a glitched HM01. MM might be more useful for yellow where wild ditto is very far. I see so many steps that a wild ditto could be faster on RB specially if HM02 gets glitched. Using mm to do zzazz is not useful in non tas because you'd have to get transform to miss... and the enemy to mirror move next turn... well maybe segmented but good luck.
gia
Experienced Forum User, Player (109)
Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223
Glitchy TAS of 2008Innovative TAS of 2008Lucky TAS of 2008
Sorry double post, but the other is too long and this is different news. oh wow lol: vbm1 (incomplete) vbm2 (ending, the start was hacked, but proves the point) (dont save as) vbm2 @youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyrl9kA6ntU I checked mirror move so much for nothing... my bad, thought you had tested. That's proof of concept of doing zzazz on yellow _without_ mirror move or cinnabar, doubt this is yellow only. More explanation at video if you do need it, doubt it. Hanzou: "01??5DD3 teleport rooms. quantifier digits 76 correspond to the hall of fame. in general you can only use this code _while loading your game_" Would that work? It pretty much says no, but still, that stuff gets saved? with glitch city/black out?
Experienced Forum User, Player (18)
Joined: 10/14/2005
Posts: 317
gia wrote:
vbm1 (incomplete) vbm2 (ending, the start was hacked, but proves the point)
Great find!
01??5DD3 teleport rooms.
Also great detective work here. Here is a demonstration applying your idea: pokemonyellow_zzazz_teleport_v19.vbm
gia
Experienced Forum User, Player (109)
Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223
Glitchy TAS of 2008Innovative TAS of 2008Lucky TAS of 2008
I am getting how to play with the items as if the item list was a gameshark, I started compiling a list of the addresses and their data but of course it misses a lot of addresses, and made a excel sheet that tells what items you have "available" given a vba memory dump, I used it to analyze your superglitch movie and learned a lot, it would be more useful if integrated with the emulator but whatever. I wasn't able to use the "teleport" address at all, I'm gonna watch your video, don't tell me you teleport to hall of fame directly :) However, by keeping an eye on that address noticed four addresses that handle your coordinates on the map and the sprite "axis" origin. I managed to use them to skip brock's badge check, victory road (victory road as in the caves), and then to skip the elite four and finish the game... without using nickname? (which btw seems to have a similar effect but perhaps calling a code routine that set some other variables, because those addresses stay untouched). I hadn't noticed you entered the pokemon menu after each use of nickname, so I kept crashing. Is it perfectly safe to use given that you follow the steps? my other method is, but since it is a bit slower than nickname? I didn't make a video. So now getting zzazz started is possible earlier, and there are at least two ways to finish the run. So I went to check the actual activation, and... it only works if you fight at Pewter City, otherwise I crash at the tenth step like primo said. I have absolutely no idea how this glitch exactly works in memory, could you please explain why pewter is safe? I mean there has to be a way to manipulate the safe city, pewter is too far, the runners would have to get cut no matter what to be able to take digglets cave or get hm02 so they can fly to pewter. Edit:
hanzou wrote:
Also great detective work here. Here is a demonstration applying your idea: pokemonyellow_zzazz_teleport_v19.vbm
Omg never thought of using the random battle, that is huge, awesome!, and primo said he was able to trigger the inventory glitch while battling, so that would cancel the need for a "safe" city, as there's only 4 steps that might not even count between the battle and the end. In RB it would be much easier as it is just a quantity.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Skilled player (1798)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3148
Glitchy TAS of 2013Gameboy TAS of 2013PSX TASer of 2010
Nice. So you actually chained the trainer-fly glitch. I don't know then why primo said it couldn't be done, unless it worked because the second trainer-fly was partially active (you did not fight any battle after doing the second trainer-fly).
gia
Experienced Forum User, Player (109)
Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223
Glitchy TAS of 2008Innovative TAS of 2008Lucky TAS of 2008
No no, I did one fight after first FCBM to get my start back, and after the second FCBM I had two more battles, not only are they forced I also needed my start button to cut a tree. "player under fcbm", = lack of start + idle trainers in any glitched areas, is shared/global = gets overwritten. But each area has their own "i am glitched" state, which ends after having the random battle, which requires you to enter the area when out of fcbm. yellow at least. So, the runner can leave glitched areas as he plays, to use later.
Experienced Forum User, Player (18)
Joined: 10/14/2005
Posts: 317
gia wrote:
primo said he was able to trigger the inventory glitch while battling, so that would cancel the need for a "safe" city, as there's only 4 steps that might not even count between the battle and the end.
That's right. For automated walking, the steps do not count toward poisoning (even though counted towards the Safari Zone timer). I would like to see primo's demo of the C8 battle for instantly getting a pile of items. As of yet we still don't have a complete shortcut route proven for R/B.
gia
Experienced Forum User, Player (109)
Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223
Glitchy TAS of 2008Innovative TAS of 2008Lucky TAS of 2008
Finally got a trainer list for rb and y: Getting ditto with trainers: no way, they got 75 and 77 but no 76. Kadabra special 38: Red/Wild: Route 7: 19/22 ODDISH Route 12: 22 ODDISH Route 13: 22 ODDISH also route 14,15,16,17,18 etc, no sooner Blue/Wild: replace oddish by bellsprout and some levels change but still same areas. Yellow/Wild: Much closer Route 11: 17 DROWZEE Trainers: RB: Route 24 RIVAL Gary 15 ABRA RBY: Cerulean City ROCKET TM28 17 DROWZEE There are several more but these are closer. Others start at pokemon tower and route 12 -> 18. Anyway, this means you would still have to catch abra to teleport... If the "starter" gets changed to gyarados iv15, he could get to 251 after all the battles on the way, ie. if taking route 13 for ditto there's a calcium down there. Cool, on yellow, I got the glitched inventory with special FE, not during battle, but without having to save. Problem was that the inventory only increased to 28 which didn't give enough to access the location address. Ok I got how the inventory glitching works, when zzazz occurs your pkmn party gets glitched, fine. That deletes the "null" byte at the end of your pokemon party. This null marks the end of the list and without it your party has more than 6 "pokemon" (they are garbage though). When you go to the pkmn box if you deposit one pokemon, the addresses shift one byte because you are taking one pokemon from your party list. The party is stored several bytes before the item list, the game keeps shifting until it finds the null byte, which is gone, the first null on the way is the one that marks the cancel button on the _item_ menu. The byte that stores how many items you have is right before the byte of your first item, which represents what item you got (master ball, ultra ball, etc). The "random" master balls come from most of your items being just quantity 1 = hex for master ball once the quantity shifts one byte to the item index position (and the items become the quantities). So by having an item with a high hex index on the first position and storing one pokemon you glitch the inventory, tm 34's hex is high so it increased the item count beyond 20. You are limited to "255" items because the item count is only one byte = max FF, the highest hex is for the "item" cancel button = TM 55 = 255, if you battle the glitch with just one pokeball, you will end up using it and have zero items (cancel button) and fully glitch the inventory. Now i'll take it you knew about this (you switched bicycle for tm 34 and said the limit was 255) but never explained! Anyway, that leaves me clueless as to how it was possible to do this during battle except it was just a random event and not something that can be controlled like this byte shift. Only controllable way that comes to mind is that the pokemon activated an overflow of the pokedex's "seen pokemon" wich are right before the item counter, I mean something like "pokemon 161 seen" which is outisde the normal pokedex range and would access the item count and give access to 128 items.
Active player, Experienced Forum User (287)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
there's a similar glitch with the items in crystal when you have more than 6 pkmn in your party... if it worked on the japanese g/s versions, it would be interesting. And.. hm this image is big
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Experienced Forum User, Player (18)
Joined: 10/14/2005
Posts: 317
gia wrote:
Now i'll take it you knew about this but never explained!
Sorry for not explaining the details earlier, but your experimental results and analysis are entirely correct. Now what we need is a demo of C8 giving infinite items in battle, to make the apparent differences between R/B vs Yellow a non-issue. If that doesn't pan out, there must be some way to prevent the character from getting trapped on R/B, so that the computer can be reached in time to complete the technique.
Chamale
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Player (147)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1334
Location: Canada
gia wrote:
Mirror move fails if you switch (or faint) so fearow cant transform into Nidoking. So at least using mew it wouldn't be possible.
What if mew used transform and it failed, then Fearow used mirror move, so it knew transform?
gia
Experienced Forum User, Player (109)
Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223
Glitchy TAS of 2008Innovative TAS of 2008Lucky TAS of 2008
Yes that would work, in the next post I corrected myself, but it doesn't matter anymore because you can chain the ditto glitch and that is faster/sooner. At least I think so. pirate_sephirot if the item list is after and close (in ram) to the party pkmn then it is possible this would work unless crystal added some extra checks. Hanzou would you happen to have more information about zzazz, ie. from where and why does it pull the garbage data all over the place, why is pewter safe (i'll take it is because the location address has something to do and it ends not poisoning the pkmn), etc. I tried to find out by disassembling but I don't know assembler. I understand how it works but don't know what each instruction does.
Experienced Forum User, Player (18)
Joined: 10/14/2005
Posts: 317
gia wrote:
where and why does it pull the garbage data all over the place
No idea why, but I don't see unpredictable garbage. It is consistently a lot of 0x99 values written in various places. You always retain the third letter of your character's name. Some pokemon in your party will retain skills in certain positions.
why is pewter safe
I don't know, but it is not the only working location even if it is the earliest.
gia
Experienced Forum User, Player (109)
Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223
Glitchy TAS of 2008Innovative TAS of 2008Lucky TAS of 2008
It was the only pokecenter, didn't try every location without flying away, didn't try Indigo as well because that's useless.
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/10/2007
Posts: 260
Location: Oregon
I don't know if this glitch is known but i found this today on gamespot in the pokemon red version glitches: The top floor of the Pokemon tower is blocked by the ghost of a Marowak, which can't be identified and defeated until you get the Silph Scope in Team Rocket's Hideout. Or apparently not, because if you use a Poke Doll item in this fight, with the Silph Scope or not, you'll escape the battle and Marowak will be defeated! With this trick, you can get to the top floor and save Mr. Fuji and get the Poke Flute without ever going into Team Rocket's hideout.
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 2/13/2007
Posts: 448
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Yeah, its extremely well known.
Renting this space for rent. Trying to fix image on this site. Please cut slack. As of April 6th, 2012: After a long absence, here we go again?
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/10/2007
Posts: 260
Location: Oregon
I didn't know because i didn't see it used in the blue run (maybe its only a red version glitch).
Chamale
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Player (147)
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1334
Location: Canada
It's just not necessary to use in the latest run, because of the bug to skip Snorlax entirely.
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 8/11/2007
Posts: 27
The pokedoll trick works in red, blue, and yellow. For the so called "zzazz" glitch, maybe you could try catching two Mews, one for level 100 battling, and one for Transform? I don't know. If such a thing were possible, to get the level 7 Mew up to level 10, one would battle the Hiker with the three Geodude and Machop. Mew grows to level 10 after defeating the first two Geodudes. I'm not sure about the level 17 Onix since I don't remember its experience gain off the top of my head. Either TM 12 in Mount Moon or TM 11 from Misty should suffice for this. I'm not sure if it's viable. It's just a thought I had.
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 6/6/2004
Posts: 222
Are there any enemies that have Swords Dance relatively early on? If you can get a manipulative battle where the opponent uses Swords Dance twice, you'll be able to face a Pokemon at L11, which for Mew would give it Transform built in.
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK
The only one I can think of is Scyther. Does someone on the S.S. Anne have one? My memory is fuzzy.
Voted NO for NO reason
Joined: 2/7/2008
Posts: 1
I don't believe there are any pkm that have either swords dance before like level 23ish (farfetch'd), and I'm fairly sure the TM's in silph co. Metronome's also out at lvl 31 (Clef) ...goes back to lurk