Experienced Forum User
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 443
Location: New York, US
I don't even care anymore. Its up to the TASer anyway if he wants to do the glitch or not. I consider it a cheap trick and major glitch but, who the fuck I am I to say it can't be used. Again its really up to the TASer and I'm not and never will be a TASer because that shit is too tedious for me. I respect TASing as an Art Form and who am I to restrict their vision. That is the thing about only allowing so many categories in the first place it really restricts what you want to do in a run. Maybe people would be more motivated to do more runs otherwise without fear of being rejected, but I digress because I don't want to bring up any undesired topics again. The site has rules and this site is about super plays. Just doing that glitch to me doesn't feel like much of a super play when compared to taking on Ridley with a Pee Shooter.
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Experienced Forum User, Skilled player (1467)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
SNES TASer of 2009Rookie of 2008SNES TASer of 2008
Taco wrote:
To me, the fun of low% has always been about watching an extremely underequipped Samus struggle her way through the game in situations that should barely even be possible. That results in creative, unique strategies being used all throughout the run to overcome the challenges that that presents. Given that description, it's easy to think that the challenge of fighting the bosses with virtually no equipment is part of the fun of the category as well, but frankly, Ridley and MB are just boring. There is absolutely nothing good about them in a low% run. For that reason, I'm not opposed to ammo under/overflow being the sole published version of 13%. It would make the relatively minor sacrifice of less intense energy/ammo management to remove what have always been the two largest detriments to the category's entertainment.
Do you know if it'll end up being useful for the any% run? I know it has significantly less use since it'd be after Ridley and you're more well equipped for MB, but it'd still end up saving considerable time on MB or allow you to skip Plasma beam.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 6/28/2007
Posts: 67
Cpadolf wrote:
Do you know if it'll end up being useful for the any% run? I know it has significantly less use since it'd be after Ridley and you're more well equipped for MB, but it'd still end up saving considerable time on MB or allow you to skip Plasma beam.
The fact that I don't have enough supers to CF is a bit of a problem. I suppose the best option would be to collect Spore Spawn's supers on the first visit to Brinstar, which would also speed up Ridley a bit, but I don't intend to go that far back.
Experienced Forum User, Skilled player (1467)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
SNES TASer of 2009Rookie of 2008SNES TASer of 2008
How far along is the run?
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 6/28/2007
Posts: 67
I stopped working on it for a few months, so it's only at the LN exit. Draygon is actually what's holding it up at the moment; I want to prove that the strategy I have planned will work before moving forward, since alternative strategies would probably change ammo requirements. The idea is the same as Saturn's RBO - shinesparking to the top and killing draygon with a wave SBA - but much quicker and much more complicated. EDIT: I should also note that the public WIP was improved quite a bit. I found a way to skip Kraid's etank in favor of Ridley's and still make it through Norfair/LN around 70 frames faster despite having less energy.
Experienced Forum User, Skilled player (1467)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
SNES TASer of 2009Rookie of 2008SNES TASer of 2008
Sounds interesting seeing as the RBO fight against Draygon is already one of my favorite moments ever in a Super Metroid run. The whole underwater segment seems like it'll be pretty spectacular. Also very impressive on the E-Tank note.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Aran Jaeger
He/Him
Banned User, Player (8)
Joined: 10/29/2014
Posts: 176
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Since Sniq´s impression is that there aren´t any TASers in here (anymore) that would work on future SM TASes (that would use the newer tech) other than Taco and the few people that get all the stuff from Sniq already, and thus doesn´t really want to post most of his testing results and discoveries (the stuff that he actually posted was just the tip of the iceberg) at this place (especially since he isn´t happy about how his discoveries are handled in here, since
nobody cares
), but on the other hand side allowed me to do so, and since I finally felt like posting these resources today, since I at least wanted to inform/keep potentially interested people somewhat up to date, because at least I have faith in future SM TASers, so here we go (I hope Cpadolf likes it ;P): (However, I did not bother posting the movies for RTA/Speedrunning setups/tricks in here aswell.) Here is a bunch of further interesting (but in some cases potentially rather irrelevant for TASes) movies that Sniq made. The movies are all for the Snes9x rr 1.51 v.7 emulator. Movies for the NTSC version: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/264264474/0%20etank%203reserve%20tank%20MB%20%28with%20cheated%20supers%29.smv In here, he has more Super Missiles due to a cheat, which though is irrelevant for the purpose of the trick. At the beginning of the movie, Samus is already in R-Mode within the room and has Reserves (which he got via a cheat aswell, I assume, but a Crystal Flash could have been performed for that purpose aswell, so it doesn´t matter). Then one can start holding Dash for X-Ray, switch to another item in the HUD while holding Dash, and quickly re-press Dash (before X-Ray´s cooldown after the Dash release would end (since R-Mode allows to ignore the usual cooldown time required to be able to restart X-Ray, which by the way also allows to X-Ray-Climb faster), which would cancel the R-Mode state that allows a Force-Stand) to create a light-pillar (that one can shift around) to in particular be able to keep the gameplay going while X-Ray-ing. Normally when the Reserves kick in, then enemies cannot move during the refill, but if the Reserves kick in together with a Force-Stand happening due to R-Mode, then they can, and as long as the light-pillar is kept (by holding Dash), the Force-Stand won´t happen. So one lets the Rainbowbeam start and releases Dash meanwhile so that the Rainbowbeam keeps going during the refill, so that (since Varia is turned on) 1 health is subtracted and added every frame (as long as both processes, Rainbowbeam and Reserve refill keep going), so the health stays the same, which allows to survive the Rainbowbeam with 0 E-Tanks and 3 R-Tanks. And yes, as usual, there are some minor graphical effects going on when the Force-Stand happens. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1090886363/6%20pixels%20grapple%20sink.smv Grapple-killing an enemy causes a Force-Stand aswell which extends Samus bodybox, which ignores solid blocks on the ground, and with correct timing for a jump when Samus is partially within the ground and about to get knockback, one can move sideways in the ground a bit to adapt to the edge of the solid block within which Samus´ feet are. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1067597408/13%25%20blue%20suit%20mt%20doom%20idea%20%28with%20cheat%29.smv Another (rather old) idea for a suitless Spikespark with enemy knockback, but I think movies for both versions, the one using speed echoes and one using Reserves to extend knockback frames for the trick to work, have been posted in here before. Flashsuit was obtained beforehand. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1171147934/13%25%20reserve%20spark%20equipment%20test.smv Stacking crabs and farming health at mount Everest for another "Enemy-Spikespark" using Reserves. Something like this is used in the 13% Test-TAS, and Flashsuit is obtained beforehand aswell. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1757720638/14%25%20speed-grapple%20door%20flash%20suit%20idea.smv Spikespark variant that uses backwards knockback while running into a door, aswell as the closing door-shell on the other side to land fast enough, which is technically applicable at many places. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/271051448/100%25map%20spospo%20skip.smv A Superjump idea for SpoSpo skip for 100%Map, using Reserves for knockback-frames extension. Due to blackscreen parts, it is suggested to use a hitbox viewer in order to watch this one. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/468501155/big%20climb%20spark%20noob%20method.smv A (slow) example showcasing a Superjump, at the Climb room. Early landing after the knockback (for Spikespark variant setups and X-Mode setups, which are both almost equivalent, as in "every Spikespark setup can be turned into an X-Mode setup, and vice versa", since the same "magic" frame when the knockback ends is used) is in this case ensured by Samus initially standing deep enough in the ground. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1517293678/botwoon%20grey%20door%20skip%203%20knockbacks.smv Method to get past the Botwoon-Skip room´s shell with just 3 knockbacks, abusing that the knockback suitless under water was not slowed down/adapted by the developers, as opposed to other movement types. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1535984250/botwoon%20skip%20with%20x-ray%20spark.smv Using the falling sand´s downwards pulling property this time instead of a slope to land early, to start X-Mode (with previously obtained Flashsuit), aswell as the (for at least 1 frame) kept high speed value at the end of X-Mode during the horizontal spark (since the crash animation is skipped which normally cancels this speed) with which Samus is released right at the wall and thus can align to the deeply behind the grey shell frozen refill bug, since collision detection with respect to enemies has priority over collision detection regarding environmental blocks. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/690033341/brinstar%20gate%20etank%20super%20sink.smv An OoB instance of the Supersink technique (using Grapple-Beam). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/960763404/brinstar%20shovel%20spark%20%28cheat%29%20y%20position%201685%20test.smv Starting with X-Mode, Flashsuit (and a cheated, initial y position) for the test in the middle of the ground with the frozen enemy beneath it, the Flatley-mechanic allows to build up downwards speed from an immediately (crash-animation-less) cancelled X-Ray-Spark, so that Samus´ height gets adapted to the frozen enemy´s surface. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/322918393/cactus%20alley%20charge%202.smv Since Reserves allow to double the amount of knockback frames gained from enemy contact (from 5 to 10, which is what spikes would provide), speedkeep can be applied the same way as with spikes, for example to continue charging a spark (in this case additionally combined with Moonwalk, due to limited space). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/266821657/cf%20%2B%20hor%20spark%20test.smv Since the vertical speed component during an ongoing horizontal spark is 0, one can start a CF during such (provided proper positioning) aswell, and furthermore, it allows Samus to add the spark´s speed to a projectile´s speed if it is shot in the first possible frame after the CF (which only seems to allow horizontal shots). The test has GGG purposes in mind for places with just little space to build up running speed. Again, Flashsuit was obtained beforehand (not sure if I should mention that every time >_>). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/762037521/clip%20through%20elevator%20ceilings.smv An example for the old elevator spark BlueSuit method (using OoB). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/853890567/colosseum%20grapple%20spark.smv This is showcasing the speedkeep effect that the bomb-Grapple-hanging state allows. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/537666334/colosseum%20madness.smv Grappling onto some Grapple-block horizontally when e.g. Samus´ head bonks against a ceiling allows to stay in standing pose mid-air (which should be known), and can also allow Samus to move a bit into the Grapple-block (at Grapple-block walls, this would allow X-Ray-Climb), and in crouched pose between two surfaces, grappling onto a Grapple-block allows to enter the bomb-Grapple-hanging state. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/600339909/crateria%20super%20pack%20spark.smv An example that shows how a Superjump´s speed can be stored on ground (until Samus e.g. starts falling), if one releases the Superjump at the right height next to a platform, in the case that Samus immediately is put into standing pose onto this platform due to the horizontal speed component that a diagonal spark provides. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1909914120/crazy%20bounce%20unmorph%20cf%20test.smv There is some CF test for the case that the CF is started while unmorphing mid-air after a bounceball, which though did not have any spectacular consequences. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1501620825/crystal%20spark%20superspeedy%20missile%20.smv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1993172533/crystal%20spark%20superspeedy%20missile%201%20.smv These two movies are Crystal-Spark GGG tests. In the first case, the space is used so that the spark can accelerate, in the other case the space is used for the Super Missile´s acceleration. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1706012189/cwj%20A%20release%20without%20losing%20speed.smv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1507743956/dash%20speed%20keep%20without%20moving.smv A stationary jump when knockback frames end can be used for speedkeep even though Samus will not move sideways until one breaks out of such stationary "Spikespark jumps", which can be used e.g. for the continuation of speed-/mockballs. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/695689795/d-boost%20momentum%20reset.smv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1065555195/deepest%20x-ray%20climb%20knockback.smv This here is a method to use enemy knockback to get stuck very deep inside closing blue shells, which can be used to trigger transition blocks of doors higher up in the room using Walljump-Check, after inbounds X-Ray-Climb without the need to open their corresponding shell. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/500951587/door%20flash%20suit%20example.smv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1770133839/Door%20flash%20suit%20glitch.smv More examples for the SpikeSpark variant using a closing door shell, but this time with Samus facing away from the shell, and in the second case with Samus sparking past the shell, directly into the transition blocks. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/784424675/double%20enemy%20hit%20with%20unmorph%20%2B%20speed.smv This here shows that after getting hit by some enemy while unmorphing with speed echoes, the echoes still cancel the invulnerability frames, so that one can get hit right afterwards again, which in a different form can also be used to double the amount of knockback frames for SpikeSpark variants. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/189437262/early%20grav%20with%20grapple.smv This movie shows that the stationary pose where Samus stands mid-air while connected to some object using Grapple can be chained (if knockback is used), aswell as a Superjump in the ocean room through some blocks. Afterwards, R-Mode is used for a via Pause Abuse controlled Force-Stand within the wall after getting pushed in there using the Grapple-ripper, to enter Gravity´s room from the left (for which a single Superjump, started at the fish further to the right, would suffice aswell). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/48933110/elevator%20down%20%2B%20cf.smv This is what happens if a CF is started during an on-going elevator ride. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/940936160/elevator%20shinespark%20suit.smv In here, Samus moved as ball partially onto one of the elevator´s transition blocks without triggering it (with the door-skip pause trick) to lay a powerbomb and roll into the transition block to the same place where the powerbomb went off, to start a CF during the on-going transition and let the elevator´s Force-Stand interrupt the CF in the next room, to produce a Flashsuit (using OoB). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/173904374/elevator%20state%20lock%20with%20x-mode.smv For this test, Sniq used some cheat initially to get a lot of knockback frames (just because the room didn´t have any useful enemies/spikes in it) to start X-Mode while touching the solid elevator transition blocks, for which some memory address´s value, that indicates if Samus is in contact with such or not, will keep its value during X-Mode, even if Samus moves away from them, and releases Dash/X-Mode early during the transition. This will put Samus into an immobile state in the next room (since the next room does not have a corresponding valid elevator), which could be cancelled if Reserves would kick in to free Samus from this state. In general, if one touches some invalid solid elevator transition block (e.g. at the OoB of some room) and does not pause the game after the last contact with such before entering the next room, Samus´ position will be locked the same way if the next room doesn´t have an elevator. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1700653121/enemy%20dboost%20spinjump.smv The same way in which one can execute a spinjump at the end of spike knockback using the SpikeSpark setup, one can spinjump mid-air after enemy knockback if one extends knockback frames using Reserves. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1528591100/enemy%20flash%20suit.smv With Reserves (again), enemies can aswell be used the same way as spikes on the ground to land quickly after a d-boost to get a Flashsuit. Flashsuit was obtained beforehand. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/418047766/entering%20lower%20norfair%20without%20powerbombs%20or%20x-ray.smv This here shows an OoB method to enter Lower Norfair without powerbombs, using the fall speed limit break that the Supersink method (starting from an OoB Grapple-block) allows to pass through a bunch of solid blocks. Hitbox viewer should be used to see what is happening in here. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/794258931/escape%20timer%20%2B%20pause%20glittch.smv If one pauses the game at the right time when the Tourian escape timer runs out, the "Game Over" screen appears quicker than usual. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/597255345/fast%20spark.smv This here is an example of an extremely fast Superjump to loop vertically through the torus shaped room (together with its OoB) quickly in succession (started via suitless Slope-X-Mode, which requires 1 less frame for its setup than a suitless Slopespark setup, and is thus feasible). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1537356778/faster%20Red%20brin%20ggg%20godmode.smv G-Mode in this movie is obtained in the Red Brinstar Green Gate room itself, which means Samus is in the so-called "direct G-Mode" within this room, such that the gate is already loaded into the room. By riding the elevator up and down, one can enter this room in "indirect G-Mode" such that the game doesn´t load the gate PLM (yet), so that one can get past its location (and another difference is that the R-Mode´s Force-Stand property is lost as soon as one enters a new room after obtaining G-/R-Mode). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/758495913/fastest%20x-ray%20climb%202016.smv This here shows the speed at which one can X-Ray-Climb in R-Mode, which allows to neglect the usual cooldown that the X-Ray usage has. At around 4500 frames, the X-Ray-Climb´s speed is slowed down for some reason (I remember Sniq mentioning lag as potential reason). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/466935569/fat%20samus.smv Closing door shells can aswell be used to store/keep the falling speed (or prevent the the falling speed from being reset), and the falling speed value can be maxed out via angled crouch turn breaks, and as long as such turnaround past the ledge of a platform doesn´t end (preferably suitless in water due to the slowed down turnaround animation) before landing on the next platform, the value is kept. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1042766140/frozen%20enemy%20rmode%20ground%20clip.smv With a frozen enemy beneath the floor to which Samus´ height can then be adapted, together with (R-Mode such that the spark´s speed can be transfered to downwards speed when the spark´s crash animation is skipped, and) a at proper height frozen enemy above the ground to push Samus downwards a bit when the spark is started, one can clip through a 1 block thick floor. And yes, Flashsuit was obtained beforehand for the test. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/891858407/gaining%20dash%20speed%20during%20grapple%20beam.smv During the bomb-Grapple-hanging state, Samus can gain dash speed from ground that she moves past (which allows for some kind of mockball, for example). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1980698252/game%20goes%20crazy.smv At the Varia-BlueSuit setup, when Samus is in the state in which she has 0 momentum and thus can only move sideways via armpumps, which is the state in which the cooldown of the (first) spark´s delay phase runs out which causes an (after a fixed amount of frames) automatically starting spark, if one crouches (or changes the pose in other ways, which also can crash the game, but crouching allows to charge a second spark) in the frame in which this spark starts, then the usual, forced pose-change into the "moving spark" pose can be ignored such that Samus can move freely (or rather change her pose freely) during the remaining spark and the crash animation, which allows to start the next spark during the previous spark´s crash animation/phase. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/852682158/godmode%20x-ray%20graphical%20glitch.smv This here shows some graphical glitch similar to the light-pillar, that can be generated at the G-Mode setup (when 4 or less non-zero Reserve energy is used, such that Samus will get knocked out of the immobile state due to 1 of the 5 knockback frames from the enemy contact remaining after the Reserve refill). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1256364021/grapple%20jumps%20to%20oob.smv Another example of a crouchjump ceiling clip extension via spark during infinite Grapple-jumps, to OoB in Colosseum room. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/45088643/grapple%20mode%20%2B%20reserve%20tank.smv The Grapple-ruptur state can be kept through transitions if there is some Grapple-block in the next room, and is also kept through a Reserve refill and during Moonwalk. Furthermore, as one can see at the beginning, a crouch pose can be kept mid-air with a well-positioned solid/frozen enemy during a diagonal Grapple-shot onto some Grapple-block. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1813600768/grapple%20shinespark%20charge.smv The last 2 Boost Counter levels can be triggered during infinite Grapple-jumps (after bomb-Grapple-hanging). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1245500374/grapple%20sink%20flash%20suit%20method.smv This here shows how a Force-Stand inducing Grapple-kill of some enemy with Samus close to the ground (to get Samus into the ground) can be used for a Flashsuit setup. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1824159395/grapple%20wall%20clip.smv Visualization of clipping towards a Grapple-block that Samus is attached to (for X-Ray-Climb), during a jump. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1435391257/grapple%20x-mode.smv An example that shows how X-Mode (instead of a Flashsuit setup) can be obtained via clipping into the ground using Grapple (and knockback afterwards), aswell as showing how the Grapple-beam attached to Samus moves together with her, in order to hit Grapple-blocks past other block types. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1896593382/grapple-mode%20new%20glitch.smv Grapple-ruptur obtained using some Grapple-ripper instead of a Grapple-block. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/31338366/gravity%20suit%20reserve%20tank%20glitch.smv Okay, this one is somewhat hard to explain, and seems pretty powerful, and has different results at Varia/Gravity and NTSC/PAL, and can almost trigger the event flag for the planet´s explosion from what I remember, but is capable of overwriting a lot of things such as Bosses being defeated and similar stuff, and is the so far only known (iirc) way to create some Wrongwarp inbounds (without Spazer+Plasma). Results may also vastly differ depending on how much Reserve energy one had. So with manual Reserves and pause abuse to stay alive at 00 hp, together with the Varia-BlueSuit setup at Gravity´s collection while the game is paused and Reserves are turned to Auto such that Samus can move freely as soon as the Reserve refill ends, which is before the centered suit animation phase ends, which also uses the memory address of the Shinespark Counter which sparks use, so that at the early started spark´s crash, both these things influence that memory address´s value, which can change the BTS of all blocks in the room to (FF), which in Gravity room´s case turns the upper most blue door shell shot-block into the block-shuffler 0C(FF) (and no, I will not yet start listing all the 4096=16^3 possible different block types of the form 0W(XY) with W,X,Y being hex values and their properties that I checked during long and tedious tests, but yes, there exist blocks that spawn nom-nom-plants or door-shells or non-working savestations or Missile-refill PLMs or Draygon turret Grapple-blocks and further crazy stuff), which allows to (in a deterministic, non-variable way) change the block types of all blocks in the room completely (and Samus cannot move meanwhile, similar to the human glitched 3%/low% route´s block-shuffler instance). And afterwards, Sniq moves around to get back inbounds. In Varia room´s case, by coincidence (DeerForce indended it XD), the door-transition block´s BTS with the value (FF) is a valid wrongwarp to some Upper Norfair room, but Samus would end up spawning OoB. Oh yeah, and Flashsuit was obtained beforehand, and it is recommended to use a hitbox viewer to see what is happening. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/949929513/green%20brin%20floor%20clip.smv The upper frozen crawler is used to get pushed down by it by being aligned beneath it, Reserves are used to extend knockback frames (as usual, since most of the tests were based around knockback extensions combined with other mechanics, as one might notice), so that the downwards push from the knockback is strong enough to get Samus through the remaining floor. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/648490867/hi-jump%20rocket%20launch%20attempt.smv Yet another Superjump storage example (with previously gained Flashsuit). Note that at the end of the X-Mode, Samus´ suit is yellow for a few frames during which she is not in Bluesuit state but has the so-called "Yellow Suit" which is a temporary Flashsuit that turns into Bluesuit, which occurs at the end of X-Mode-Sparks and during Varia-Bluesuit setups, and is pretty much the state that Samus is in during the spark delay phase before a spark starts moving, with the difference that one can move freely. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1368778942/hyper%20damageboost%20ntsc.smv An extremely fast speedkept d-boost built up within "short distance" using Hyperwalk/Moonwalk-speedkeep. I´m not sure if this has been posted in here already. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/473895544/HYPER%20ENEMY%20SPARK.smv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/705159947/HYPER%20ENEMY%20X-MODE.smv These two movies show the "almost" equivalence of Flashsuit- and X-Mode-setups. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1121197881/hyper-blue-walk.smv Using Moonwalk-speedkeep to move backwards with speed-echoes and still be able to charge up a spark, aswell as turn around with kept echoes after knockback. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/860082496/immortal%20phantoon.smv If Phantoon´s health is taken down to 0 using Murder-beam orbs, his death animation will not happen, so that the room state will not change. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/60603490/infinite%20fall%20speed%20grapple%20launch.smv Suitless Supersink example, in which fall speed past the fall speed limit is built up until Samus can clip through a bunch of solid blocks. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/41910613/kraid%20speed%20test.smv Using Kraid´s spike floor and the sideways pushing (but not halt inducing) "wall" (which most likely is some part of Kraid´s bodybox, since the same stationary running animation is possible at OoB towards and above Crocomire, too). A variant of this was used in the 100%Map TAS. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/346057401/leftward%20door%20piece%20of%20cake%20method.smv This might have been known long ago, but for us it was new that the regained horizontal speed from breaking out of a stationary spinjump with Dash allows to easily get somewhat deep stuck within door-shells. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/240648527/LN%20entry%20fast%20godmode.smv The quick G-Mode setup for reverse Lower Norfair entry which probably will be used for 13%PB-X-Ray in some manner. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1767484949/LN%20pillar%20flash%20suit.smv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1898649652/LN%20pillars%20ice%20flash%20suit%20slower.smv Regaining Flashsuit at the Lower Norfair pillars, and a slower method using Ice and Violas. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1008586059/LN%20statue%20reserve%20test.smv I guess if the statue tries to teleport Samus back to its hand during the transition, then Samus will be put to some OoB position in GT´s room. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1033234235/madness.smv One of the few rooms whose OoB can contain a Wrongwarp back to Ceres if one creates it using X-Ray. Tewtal by the way has some tool that allows to check all possible Wrongwarps for a given room. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1014627601/maridia%20GGG%20x-ray%20spark.smv Similar to the X-Ray-Spark in the further above mentioned Botwoon-Skip room with the grey shell. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/13648097/maridia%20x-mode%20escape.smv Some slow but interesting way to get back up in the pre snail room suitless, by paralyzing a crab and using direct G-Mode for X-Mode within a delayed closing door-shell. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1210484373/max%20speed%20spark.smv Creating a gap between 2 "block towers" at OoB for an insanely fast Superjump. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1539898578/mickey%20mouse%20ceiling%20clip%20without%20ice.smv Standard way to use Reserves for knockback again, for a crouchjump ceiling clip, extended using some spark in Mickey Mouse room, which might find application in a new SM Impossible any% TAS (to skip GT) that Nymx is planning. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1138577974/minimum%20jump%20for%20slopekiller.smv Some test where Sniq wanted to find the minimal jump height required for a perfect soft unmorph to neglect the backwards pushing effect that slopes can cause. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1274030545/MMS%20super%20spark%20-%20Copy.smv The interesting part in here (observable via hitbox viewer) is that (after moving through slopes as if they were air, which the X-Mode allows) immediate release of Dash for a very short X-Mode-Spark allows Samus to store her Superjump due to instantly getting put into standing pose on the unusual slope type (which some other slopes do not allow, which also is similarly possible for normal jumps from far beneath such slopes and unmorphing into them to enter "Hover-Mode" (i.e. preserving upwards speed instead of downwards speed which slopekiller would do). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/523478341/morphing%20without%20morph%20ball.smv And yes, G-Mode allows to morph without Morphball, if one turns around during the knockback that knocks Samus out of the immobile state. Theory behind this is that the game does not know into what pose it should put Samus (and thus puts her into some kind of as default set pose), because normally, one cannot turn around right after getting knockback, but since Samus is in the X-Ray-ing state she is allowed to turn around at any point. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1841124524/mother%20brain%2011%25%20conditions%20pause%20abuse%20survival.smv This here is just some proof of concept for an "all bosses 11%/low% run with (only additionally) OoB allwed". Creating Varia at OoB using X-Ray after Superjumping there to get Varia with Grapple and pause abuse through Rainbow beam until getting health from the Metroid. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/870549631/mother%20brain%20shovel%20strat.smv Some test where Samus ignores the ground when getting put into the paralyzed pose after Rainbow beam with well-timed CF, and blahblahblah it works. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1154472390/mt%20doom%20door%20knockback%20xmode%20%282%29.smv The so-called "JesusWalk" that I mentioned in an earlier post. It uses some precise jump and knockback to start X-Mode from the Everest´s closing door-shell. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/758973747/ninja%20pirates%20flash%20suit%20attempt.smv The speed-echoe knockback-extension method applied at Ninja-Pirates for Flashsuit on flat ground. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1685020021/ntsc%20floor%20oob%20clip%202.smv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1864525591/ntsc%20floor%20oob%20clip.smv The thin floor at these places allows to clip OoB using some frozen enemy. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1636510523/ntsc%20left%20side%20ocean%20ceiling%20clip%20attempt.smv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1425639767/ntsc%20ocean%20dash%20ceiling%20clip%20attempt.smv The bomb-Grapple-hanging state allows to gain at least 0.00001 more speed, which in NTSC together with HighJump allows ceiling clips in Western Ocean room to work. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/376145751/ntsc%20underwater%20reserve%20spike%20unmorph%20flash%20suit.smv I don´t quite remember what he did at the start. But anyways, doubling the amount of knockback frames from spikes suitless in water using Reserves is good enough for a Flashsuit setup even in NTSC (where Samus unmorphs frame-wise slower). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1958772422/ocean%20grapple%20super%20sink.smv Another Supersink example. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/644438734/post-botwoon%20godmode%20walk%20through%20wall.smv Exceeding the limit of some PLM interaction counter during G-Mode via long enough bright sand contact/interaction to let sand and speed-blocks behave like air during G-Mode. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/468298028/projectile%20speed%20keep%20diagonally.smv An example where dash speed is kept after knockback for a diagonal Super Missile shot right after landing on the ground. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/75649932/rainbow%20beam%20health%20reduce%20attempt.smv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1253606759/rt%20top%20of%20room.smv Superjump using a quickly after gaining knockback frozen enemy to traverse through Red Tower. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/840750482/sand%20godmode%20new.smv Using the downwards pushing falling sand in the first room for X-Mode, and G-Mode to ignore any sand´s effect in the other room. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/754901408/sandfall%20flash%20suit.smv Falling sand can also be used for Flashsuit methods. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1969783371/ship%20%2B%20reserve%20ending%20cutscene.smv Sniq used some cheat initially that allowed him to let Reserves kick in after entering the ship in the Tourian escape, to test what would happen afterwards (similar to the Bowling Skip). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1161617053/ship%20blue%20echoes%20keep.smv Bomb-knockback at entering the ship with temporary Bluesuit allows to keep the echoes, and allows to turn around without losing them. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/599140714/snail%20sink%20flash%20suit.smv Oh right, snails can also be used to get Flashsuit. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/458248232/somewhat%20optimized%20bowling%20skip%20%2B%20flash%20suit.smv Some test for a 100% Items TAS. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1055556388/space%20time%20wrongwarp%201.smv A spacetime Wrongwarp. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1664715424/speed-d-boost%20ggg%20theory.smv A test for some speedkept d-boost for a GGG with a frozen enemy. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/373165090/suit%20%2B%20cf%20same%20frame.smv This is what would happen if a CF is started and a suit is collected in the same frame. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/80215179/superjump%20madness.smv A chain of stored and released Superjumps. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1510020236/test%281%29%20neu.smv Remote item collection using (an unnecessarily complicated) G-Mode setup. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1363336704/underwater%20r-mode%20flash%20suit.smv The enemy-Flashsuit method using R-Mode works underwater aswell. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/780004923/upper%20norfair%20GG%20skip.smv With X-Mode, one can get past the Upper Norfair Green Gate, but one is caged in a softlock. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/201082031/varia%20blue%20suit%20not%20working.smv From what I remember, ScrewAttack is the reason why the Varia-BlueSuit method didn´t work here. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1589869095/varia%20suit%20memory%20corruption.smv Memory corruption at Varia, with the Wrongwarp to OoB. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/427830183/varialess%204E%201R%20MB.smv There are exactly luckily 2 frames in here in which Rainbow beam can only deal 1 damage instead of 2 even though Samus doesn´t have Varia, which allows Samus to survive the Rainbow beam. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/304147002/vertical%20fall%20boost.smv Here is an attempt to apply a perfect soft-unmorph on a crumble block to fall a bit faster. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1845888978/wavy%20top%20bar.smv Some graphical effect that can occur after a CF in R-Mode, I think. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1247167669/white%20suit%202.smv Another restricted graphical effect, if the Flashsuit producing spark at less than 30 health is started the same frame as Samus gets hit. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1266134612/x-mode%20max%20upward%20jump%20speed%20store.smv A way to store the full jump-speed that one gets from a jump in X-Mode. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1258577874/x-ray%20new%20glitch.smv The graphical glitch for X-Ray during R-Mode. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1997162741/X-ray%20without%20powerbombs.smv An OoB method starting in Lower Norfair to get X-Ray without powerbombs, using a Wrongwarp. Movies for the PAL version: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/703680852/elevator%20up%20%2B%20cf%20%28pal%29.smv This is an example of a CF starting during an on-going elevator ride upwards (with the usual lag after the CF tries to restart/continue), which is a softlock. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1692160146/geemer%20army.smv This here demonstrates how enemies that crawl on surfaces can be paralyzed to stay in place (on some ground) if a Super Missile´s collision would cause such enemy to re-enter its falling state in the same frame in which its falling state (due to landing) would be reset. In this case, because of the amount of stacked enemies, the game can start lagging. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1977182623/mt%20everest%2014%25%20x-hi%20jump%20jesuswalk%20success%20PAL.smv Slope-X-Mode and HighJump to pass Everest room suitless; NTSC couldn´t do it like that, by some pixels. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/471923904/mt%20everest%20chargeless%20x%20attempt.smv This here shows at the beginning how G-Mode can be obtained while having Bluesuit. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/920148572/PAL%20blue%20brinstar%20missiles%20without%20pbs.smv In here, Sniq tested some other idea I had. It took ages and works only because aligning to the frozen enemy at the end changes Samus´ height in the sub-pixel range so that the Flashsuit´s spark can go past the ceiling, but hey, it works. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1716127448/pal%20cactus%2020%20knockback%20spark.smv Here is the 20 knockback frames Flashsuit method suitless under water using a spike, for the PAL version. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1323571932/pal%20ceiling%20grapple%20clip.smv PAL doesn´t need the bomb-Grapple-hanging state with HighJump to clip through ceilings during infinite Grapple-jumps. Afterwards some door-skip method was used. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1097692250/PAL%20chargeless%20x-ray%20proof%20of%20concept.smv At about 30 000 frames, the magic starts happening: Sniq obtained R-Mode, had to bind the L shoulder button to the Dash action to be able to keep the light-pillar through the following CF to fill Reserves, which later allows him to trigger the R-Mode´s Force-Stand very late during the Reserve refill so that he already has enough health refilled for the upcoming Flashsuit producing spark aswell as for the reason that the crab from which he gains a second set of knockback frames at the end would have started moving as soon as the Reserves kick in (since enemies can move during the Reserve refill as soon as the Force-Stand happens), so that he couldn´t have gotten knockback from the crab anymore. The remaining part is just some strategies for humans. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1218985783/pal%20enemy%20dash%20keep%20attempt.smv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/338643904/pal%20enemy%20flash%20suit.smv Movies that show speedkeep using an enemy and Reserves, aswell as a Flashsuit setup in a similar way. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1642886636/pal%20godmode%20morph%20glittch.smv This is what would happen if one could gain many more knockback frames if one tries to morph using G-Mode. Sniq used cheats to get so many knockback frames in this test. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1026988927/pal%20gravity%20spark%20memory%20corruption%20test.smv Some test for the above listed memory corruption at Gravity, in PAL. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1336041425/pal%20huge%20downwards%20knockback.smv A downwards knockback test to see how much downwards speed one can gain with knockback. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1277175083/pal%20ocean%20ceiling%20clip.smv The infinite Grapple-jump ceiling clip at the left side of the ocean room with HighJump. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1050715304/pal%20oob%20ground%20clip%20LN.smv Soft-unmorph wiggling method on thin ground with frozen enemy above Samus to clip OoB in Lower Norfair. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/411660273/PAL%20pre-botwoon%20ceiling%20clip%20with%20grav%20hj.smv Without gaining running speed (together with Speedbooster to increase the jump height), only in PAL with Gravity and HighJump, Reserves for knockback frames extension allow to clip with the SpikeSpark-jump quickly/far enough through the crumble block ceiling (since Samus unmorphs faster in PAL). http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1688253055/pal%20reserve%20tank%20area%20of%20effect.smv Some area in which Samus will "collect" a Reserve tank at OoB (with the game crashing shortly after due to some Geemer touching some crash block iirc) that Sniq once created/found. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1822915035/pal%20room%20destroyer%20suit.smv Another Gravity memory corruption example. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1698828358/pal%20solid%20floor%20clip%20attempt.smv Soft-unmorph fall-speedkeep with frozen enemies above and beneath the ground to clip through the floor, for which Samus´ unmorph animation in NTSC would take too long which wouldn´t allow a perfect soft-unmorph. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/752632655/vertical%20speed%20gain%20pal.smv If the vertical spark could go on long enough without bonking into some object, the during the spark unused vertical speed´s value would exceed the value 65536/2 (which is the point at which the value will be used iirc), which would drastically change Samus´ vertical speed instantly. - - - Movies for the NTSC version: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1805500155/140.smv This here is some 140 pixels short charge under water by Taco, which appropriately turns off Gravity at the beginning. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/726349018/draygon%20sba.smv Taco noticed Draygon´s OoB position at the beginning of the fight, and that one can hit Draygon´s shell with Wave-SBA particles early on (and during Reserve refill, the particles would keep moving but won´t collide with enemies, so that way, it might be possible to let the particles move through the shell and hit the belly when the refill of proper amount of Reserve energy ends). (The RNG analysis regarding this, http://i.imgur.com/PCNAUm8.png , is not quite ready, but fyodorjung ( https://www.twitch.tv/fyodorjung/profile ), K6L2 and me are currently more or less working on (and ideas for) it, with some information that Tewtal and Kejardon provided on Discord ( https://discordapp.com/invite/0YGBQjr7GLbPtDeU ) to answer questions.) http:>_> And this is my face when I finally finished this post. - - - Happy TASing ;)
collect, analyse, categorise. "Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;) Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on. 1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans. 2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai. (last updated: 18.03.2018)
Post subject: i dont even know anymore
dekutony
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Aran Jaeger wrote:
Since Sniq´s impression is that there aren´t any TASers in here (anymore) that would work on future SM TASes (that would use the newer tech) other than Taco and the few people that get all the stuff from Sniq already, and thus doesn´t really want to post most of his testing results and discoveries (the stuff that he actually posted was just the tip of the iceberg) at this place (especially since he isn´t happy about how his discoveries are handled in here, since
nobody cares
But I do care...
Aran Jaeger wrote:
Happy TASing ;)
Thanks, you too.
Here, my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/dekutony
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Taco wrote:
Draygon is actually what's holding it up at the moment; I want to prove that the strategy I have planned will work before moving forward, since alternative strategies would probably change ammo requirements. The idea is the same as Saturn's RBO - shinesparking to the top and killing draygon with a wave SBA - but much quicker and much more complicated.
Really looking forward to this run, Taco! Best of luck figuring out what you need for making this work.
Taco wrote:
I should also note that the public WIP was improved quite a bit. I found a way to skip Kraid's etank in favor of Ridley's and still make it through Norfair/LN around 70 frames faster despite having less energy.
Damn!!! And I thought it was already as good as it could be! Great work!
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SNES TASer of 2009Rookie of 2008SNES TASer of 2008
I appreciate the megapost Aran!
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
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Me and Sniq finally got our semi-optimized 13% Charge/Speed Route Test TAS done. Final time was 50:41, and this can probably be pushed below 50 with further optimization. There's a few major mistakes like not blowing up the tube when passing it the first time and some other minor details that can be improved, but the route itself is probably very close to final. Early inputs for this test was borrowed from Taco's Any% WIP, and some rooms in norfair are heavily inspired by Namespoofers 14% Speedbooster TAS. Any ideas or suggestions for improvements are welcome. LSMV: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/30904919119106655 Encode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moIWUc_HoQM
creaothceann
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Nice! :)
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Great stuff, guys! Really liked this TAS. Can't wait for a final optimized version!
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total wrote:
Any ideas or suggestions for improvements are welcome.
I think that those who can further improve this are only some persons.
I start a text using a translation tool. I peruse and understand movie for illiteracy except Japanese.
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Aran Jaeger wrote:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/853890567/colosseum%20grapple%20spark.smv This is showcasing the speedkeep effect that the bomb-Grapple-hanging state allows.
bomb-Grapple-hanging was truly surprised!! is truly intricate and is art.
I start a text using a translation tool. I peruse and understand movie for illiteracy except Japanese.
Invariel
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I enjoyed that test run - getting run speed out of seemingly nowhere in a lot of places was interesting, the slow climb up Maridia's walls was amusing (but got old quickly, but I also realize there's nothing you can do), and there was some excellent use of shinespark copies to do damage to things. I did find the Ridley and Mother Brain fights to be tedious and boring though, partly because those fights drag on, but also because damage isn't applied as close as possible to the boss's face, so it looked like a regular good player fighting those two - stay away from the boss, charge and shoot at range, lather, rinse, repeat. I recognize that this is a test TAS, and I know that the final version will be polished, but I don't suspect that those two fights are going to get much faster, and they take up a significant portion of the run, which (to me) detracts from overall entertainment.
I am still the wizard that did it. "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata <scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is Samsara last edited by Invariel on 2015-07-26 02:08:14
Fortranm
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I guess Ridley and Mother Brain fights are the biggest drawback of this route, just like in the current "low%, Speedbooster" run. It's a shame that 13% PB-Ice is one of the route that require missile underflow.
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Is it possible in the room before Botwoon to release the Pancake Enemy, shoot half the pillar, jump into it to get stuck in the Ceiling/Floor and get a flash suit from it?
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Aran Jaeger
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"Is it possible in the room before Botwoon to release the Pancake Enemy, shoot half the pillar, jump into it to get stuck in the Ceiling/Floor and get a flash suit from it?" In short: We had this idea long ago already, and Sniq tried to get stuck deeper into the shot-block to make use of this, but it didn´t work. If you have Bluesuit of Flashsuit already, even in the suitless case (with Reserves), then yes, one could get into the ground a bit on top of the lowest of the 3 shot-blocks (but not into the bottom ground, because annoyingly none of those shot-block walls allow to just shoot out the lower 2 shot-blocks while the upper one is kept in order to get a bit into the ground), and then one can get hit by such red worm and extend knockback frames for a Flashsuit, so yes, a Flashsuit can be gotten, but it wouldn´t help much. Reason is that the Flashsuit producing (preferably horizontal) spark with which one wants to break the speed-block wall (and still have another Flashsuit left for Draygon) is initially positioned too high up, such that the horizontal spark would immediately at the beginning hit some solid pixels in the ceiling and stop right away.
collect, analyse, categorise. "Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;) Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on. 1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans. 2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai. (last updated: 18.03.2018)
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SNES TASer of 2009Rookie of 2008SNES TASer of 2008
Liked the run a lot, really loved the Draygon kill and some of the more bizarre shinespark/flashsuit setups. Nothing that immediately jumped out to me on first watch far as improvements goes, other than general movement optimization and some potential improvements in ammo management. Maybe entering the 3rd metroid room already morphed, placing the first PB immediately and then using the metroids invulnerability frames to run straight through the first metroid instead of rolling under?
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
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TAS of 2017First edition TAS of 2017PSX TAS of 2017
I enjoyed the testrun quite a lot. I've never seen this particular route in conjunction with the tricks used before. It's also very funny to see a low% get an a reverse tank, since that is one of the less important items of the game, but then again, I don't know the low% route well enough to understand the exact missile and health requirements the run has. I'm looking forward to how an optimized version might look. Dem moonwalks tho.
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This was an excellent test run. Looked incredibly well optimized throughout. Moonwalks looking sexy as well. Cant wait to see the final run! Currently there are 7 published Super Metroid runs. When this run gets published, it will drop to 6, and when Taco's run is done that number will drop down to 5. Looking forward to it!
They're off to find the hero of the day...
BigBoct
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scrimpeh wrote:
...I don't know the low% route well enough to understand the exact missile and health requirements the run has.
As far as ammunition, you need a total of 18 projectiles to fully break Mother Brain 1's glass case, and then I think she has 6000 health, so once the glass is at least opened, enough of your missiles/Supers need to hit her directly to drop that to 0 by the time the glass breaks. For energy, Mother Brain 2's Rainbow Beam does 300 damage, and there is no way to pause during it to manually trip your reserve tanks, so you need at least 1 energy tank, and then any combination of 2 more energy tanks / 2 reserve tanks. Both of these apply to all categories.
Previous Name: boct1584
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TAS of 2017First edition TAS of 2017PSX TAS of 2017
boct1584 wrote:
scrimpeh wrote:
...I don't know the low% route well enough to understand the exact missile and health requirements the run has.
As far as ammunition, you need a total of 18 projectiles to fully break Mother Brain 1's glass case, and then I think she has 6000 health, so once the glass is at least opened, enough of your missiles/Supers need to hit her directly to drop that to 0 by the time the glass breaks. For energy, Mother Brain 2's Rainbow Beam does 300 damage, and there is no way to pause during it to manually trip your reserve tanks, so you need at least 1 energy tank, and then any combination of 2 more energy tanks / 2 reserve tanks. Both of these apply to all categories.
Oh, that clears a lot of things up. Thanks for explaining.
Aran Jaeger
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Here is some routing for 13%PB-X-Ray, which is likely the fastest option among the 13% options that use a Crystal Flash during Draygon´s grab: Regarding upcoming room names, I mainly refer to this list of rooms with their corresponding names: http://deanyd.net/sm/index.php?title=List_of_Rooms The beginning would basically be like Taco´s early game inputs (including Moonwalk) for the new any% TAS (or even better, if possible), up to early Super Missiles, except that the Terminator E-Tank might be skipped. If one takes the Terminator E-Tank, then one will have more energy for Maridia (without Varia) and shinesparks (which will be explained later on), but if the E-Tank is taken, then one will have to refill more energy (which means more drops being required) until Reserves get partially filled which is required for G-/R-Mode setups in Maridia. Then the Brinstar R-Tank is gotten, since it is the fastest R-Tank, and at least one is required, and existing TASes indicate that getting the R-Tank after the early Super Missiles would be faster than vice versa. From here on, one could get Spore Spawn´s Super Missiles, which seems only useful in the case that one doesn´t go to Wrecked Ship early on (to get the quicker, left Super Missile there), gets X-Ray, and enters Maridia from the top of Red Brinstar using G-Mode, or if on does some R-Mode CF-Flashsuit setup (roughly like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJGJUP_0iWI&index=18&list=PL5If8zSOO37bcgBr6XeWNtZMrxHn6fARx ) near Kraid´s lair to travel through Maridia starting from the GlassTube by chaining sparks (using tricks showcased in the movies from one of my previous posts), but the latter one is not an option, since this map here of all places in which the R-Mode CF-Flashsuit setup can technically be done ( http://i.imgur.com/Xo4Lb8E.png ; in the green rooms, the room state does not matter for the setup; for the orange rooms, those rooms have to be in a certain state in order to allow the FlashSuit setup) shows that in Kraid´s lair no such room exists to do so, because one additionally would have at most 10 powerbombs for the CF and would hence need a quick PB drop during the setup. The only reasonable place to do such R-Mode CF-Flashsuit setup at all seems to be the activated central shaft room in Wrecked Ship (note that spark enemies in WS could also rapidly hurt Samus during a CF, but they don´t allow to gain Reserve energy during the CF inside those beforehand, since one cannot control the energy drain by switching suits during the CF, if one doesn´t have suits). Note that Draygon needs to be killed before Ridley, since without Charge, one doesn´t have enough ammunition to kill Ridley beforehand, so it makes sense to avoid Norfair early on (and also Kraid´s lair, which means no Varia for Maridia) because of elevator rides and backtracking if one would go down there, due to the fast option to enter Maridia via G-Mode in Red Brinstar from above Everest room. Furthermore, if one unpauses the game without having Speedbooster, then Bluesuit is lost if one had it before, so for a few things like adapting Reserve energy (to 4, 3, 2 or 1) for (fast) G-Mode setups, one would need to be careful in that case. Now, the early Powerbombs are collected, and then X-Ray and/or the upper Red Brinstar Powerbombs (in any order), or skipping both, to afterwards continue towards Phantoon and getting Moat-Missiles on the way. In the case that one decided to not get the Moat-Missiles, not kill Phantoon and not collect the left WS Super Missiles, and instead chose to get Spore Spawn´s Super Missiles (since they should still be faster than Maridia Mainstreet Super Missiles, due to the detour after getting them to set up the JesusWalk for which I linked a movie in a previous post, especially since no sparks could be used), and probably the Missiles near Charge, and X-Ray to then immediately enter Maridia from the top left, Phantoon would preferably be killed last (on the way to Tourian), and no sparks could be used to speed up Maridia up to Draygon, because of the lack of near/close R-Mode CF-Flashsuit setup places. In the early WS case (which I deem faster), one could get the Flashsuit with the above mentioned method, and would in any case go back to Red Brinstar (since Forgotten Highway is a far too long detour towards Draygon), and switch Flashsuit to Bluesuit via Crystal-Spark ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKCn8nD-crQ ) probably in the nomnom-plant room (due to quick drops) from where the G-Mode can be set up (with 2 quick elevator rides), in case it isn´t faster to let a worm crawl to the door to the savestation room to enter the Green Gate room in indirect G-Mode. In the case of having a Flashsuit, it probably is slower to instead continue towards the GlassTube to start travelling up from there via Flashsuit producing sparks (for which either Reserves or speed-echoes seem to be needed in the water) or Bluesuit producing Superjumps set up via Slope-X-Mode. Having arrived at Everest room, if one doesn´t have Bluesuit, the JesusWalk method needs to be applied, which is somewhat slow. Otherwise one could of course spark to the right door or use Slope-X-Mode for a Superjump to get to the same place, just with a Bluesuit additionally (and another option would be to do a Flashsuit producing Slopespark using the speed-echoes from the Bluesuit). Now in snail room, one could do some short inbounds X-Ray-Climb (which works with Bluesuit aswell) and potentially fire a Super Missile at proper time meanwhile to enrage the off-screen moving snail crawling on the left Grapple-block wall so that it quickly meets Samus at the end of the climb for the R-Mode Force-Stand clip setup in pre-Botwoon room ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_S75DqLOaw&index=20&list=PL5If8zSOO37bcgBr6XeWNtZMrxHn6fARx ) if one doesn´t have Flashsuit which would get cancelled if one uses X-Ray in a non X-Mode-starting manner; or one could go the normal way and do some catnap222 strategy ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Ij1D7bx5M ). In the Bluesuit case, no Force-Stand clip setup is required towards Botwoon (which is nice, and I think the early time-loss if one generates the first Flashsuit in WS should be worth it, provided using Flashsuit-/Bluesuit-techniques efficiently, and makes for fine entertainment aswell ;P). And it is to note that even though having enough ammunition for a ceiling-CF clip past the crumble-blocks in pre-Botwoon room, since there is no way to exit Botwoon´s room right after entering it (in order to refill the due to the CF lost, required ammunition), one could not continue that way, because of the missing Charge beam (even if one would farm all 6-1=5 (since 1 enemy needs to be used for a PB drop) slowly out of the CF´s powerbomb explosion area lured enemies before Botwoon). Botwoon´s E-Tank seems useful in any case, and (except if another G-Mode setup is used, as it is demonstrated in 1 of the movies that I posted previously), together with traversing its tunnel, unavoidable without a spark. Otherwise, one can (get the E-Tank anyways and) either spark through the speed-blocks (and potentially farm the sandpit bugs), or walk through the speed-blocks in Bluesuit´s case (to e.g. spark up in pre-Colosseum room or past Colosseum), or one can use 1 of the red worms for Slope-X-Mode and spark in X-Mode through the speed-blocks to aswell have a Bluesuit afterwards. For pre-Colosseum room, if one has Bluesuit, it should be possible to lure 1 of the sandpit farm bugs in the E-Tank room to the door to the right to charge a spark and do the JesusWalk setup that allows to enter X-Mode in the closing door-shell in pre-Colosseum room for a Superjump up this room (releasing Samus with yet another Bluesuit on top). Otherwise one has to slowly climb or spark up in pre-Colosseum room. Afterwards, one can potentially spark past Colosseum room (since the upcoming Draygon CF for which ammunition needs to be prepared will get one a Flashsuit anyways), if BlueSuit was kept until this point. Technically one could carry a Bluesuit into the Draygon fight, but I don´t see an advantage of doing so. At Draygon, the Draygon-grab-CF probably wants to be executed early on, so that one gets a Flashsuit that together with (from there on almost unlimited) ammunition counts can be used to quickly get rid of the boss and exit the room with Bluesuit similarly to the RBO TAS (to either do slow inbounds X-Ray-Climb or spark up in pre-Draygon room). Sniq mentioned that it might be possible to enter X-Mode late at the Draygon fight (probably using Draygon´s body for knockback) and spark diagonally up to the right where the high platform is, in order to store a Superjump (and meanwhile, beforehand or afterwards kill Draygon), so that the in pre-Draygon room unleashed Superjump carries Samus to the top with a remaining Bluesuit. So from here on, ammunition management is more or less trivialized and one can concentrate on health drops. On the way back, in the case of having a prepared spark, it of course could be used for Colosseum room or Botwoon E-Tank room to go down the left sandpits faster (and possibly using some method like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rk3NiVlHGY&index=14&list=PL5If8zSOO37bcgBr6XeWNtZMrxHn6fARx ), towards Varia before Norfair. I don´t think that the route involving the long vertical Maridian tube would be faster in any case. One could keep the spark even past Maridia, but I´m not sure how useful it would be for the further sections, and rather doubt that it helps, but maybe the Beetom speed-hall in Upper Norfair could then be used. And yet another R-Mode CF-Flashsuit setup from there on seems to just waste time aswell (but I´ll mention those things anyways, just for the sake of not missing ideas). If one still doesn´t have 3 Tanks yet (which I doubt), there´d be Kraid´s E-Tank on the way, obviously. Then, the fast reverse Lower Norfair G-Mode setup is most likely applied, followed by fast Ninja-Pirates and a very fast Ridley fight (with Super Missiles, I assume). Then out of Norfair towards Tourian (possibly with a detour in the delayed Phantoon fight case), using the Green-, Red- or Blue-Brinstar route (whatever is fastest), and finally powerbombing Metroids (without much trouble, I guess, because of the 10 Powerbombs cap), getting past the big Metroid, and finishing up MB´s room without Zebetite-skip and Stand-up glitch, followed by the Tourian escape. - - - For anyone (or any team) that wants to tackle a TAS of this thing, I would recommend testing many of the possibly relevant tricks (regarding ammunition/health/farming consequences and requirements, time costs and gains depending on what combination of tricks are used, etc.) and/or making some test-TAS before starting a serious TAS of this.
collect, analyse, categorise. "Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;) Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on. 1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans. 2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai. (last updated: 18.03.2018)