I finished Bloodpool. I spent a long time on the A2 Bloodpool boss seeing if I could do it faster than the published run did. I came up with a good strategy that could beat him much faster but he is just 1 hit shy so he goes into his second form! Maybe you can find a way to get the extra hit in time. I spent a long time on that boss using FA so it might not be possible..
Edit: My Bloodpool A1 boss strategy went nicely though.
For such a high rerecord count, the sim section was extremely poorly done - you should be using frame advance for all menu navigation, and you should never miss your targets.
The action segments were mostly okay, though.
* Quietust, QMT Productions
P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another
Well it is a test run mainly to help zidanax with his real run so it doesn't really matter. The sims don't really need to be optimized anyway as I'm just showing the strategy for them.
Personally, I wouldn't go the route you did in Bloodpool. I would go for the E lair first, then back up to the NW one, since those two improve civilization growth. The route made your population growth seem inhibited.
Here's my second WIP of Fillmore. This one is 391 frames faster than the previous one up to the beginning of Fillmore Act 2. The extra roads I built toward the end of the sim are to accommodate for future growth while I'm away from Fillmore. I'm not sure how to be entertaining in the sim without making too many "nervous" movements, so comments on that are welcome. Note that I can't really mess around too much with how I handle the downtime up to the sealing of the first lair, because I can only kill a certain number of enemies at that point before enough houses are built to trigger the fire event.
Looks pretty good, no complaints here. I wonder do you know how many extra people you get for those extra roads? I'm sure it's worth it if it's like 10-20 extra as it took hardly no extra time to do. Good luck on Fillmore Act 2 btw as that level is annoying. Atleast you can do some spike boosting now!
OT: The forums are really slow for me for some reason...
I'm sure it's worth it if it's like 10-20 extra as it took hardly no extra time to do.
Yeah, it's somewhere around that amount.
EDIT: I'm not sure if this is already known, but while the hero is invulnerable, he can walk through water at the same speed as on land. Not sure if this will come in handy for Fillmore Act 2, but I can try. If not in that act, then perhaps Bloodpool Act 2?
EDIT: That trick didn't help any in Fillmore Act 2. We'll see if it ends up being at all helpful in Bloodpool Act 2. Anyway, I've completed Fillmore Act 2. 124 frames were saved in Fillmore Act 2 over my first WIP.
Alright, I think I've found a good strategy for you to use for the Bloodpool sim. Check it out. It seems to be the optimal order to seal the lairs. If you do what I did in the movie and wait the extra turn at the end you'll have 534 total pop and that should minimize the waiting in Kasandora to 1-2 extra turns at most. I'll play ahead some and see for sure.
Why are you going to the upper-left lair first? Wouldn't you want to go to the right lair? That lair still gives a civilization upgrade, and it takes less time to get to from the shrine.
EDIT: I think I'm going to finish this particular run in 1.43. I really don't want to start this run over again just to have a run that works with 1.51.
Something I just thought of when practicing a max simulation run on the game. While getting the scroll in Filmoa would be a waste, what about the one in Bloodpool? Using Rain on the lake takes hardly any time and that extra scroll could EASILY be made up in Deathheim.
I still honestly believe that 7 there would be better than 6.
1) 1st boss
2) 2nd boss
3) 3rd boss
4) 4th boss
5) 5th boss
6-7) 6th boss
Why are you going to the upper-left lair first? Wouldn't you want to go to the right lair? That lair still gives a civilization upgrade, and it takes less time to get to from the shrine.
I noticed that earlier and stated it in the thread. Good to see somebody else noticed it too.
erm... oops, *smacks forehead*. Please disregard my previous post, except for the bit about the snes9x version. Yeah, your strategy looks OK.
As for the scroll in Bloodpool: what do you mean? When I cast rain on the lake, I get a source of life, not a source of magic.
Why was I thinking that? My brain is overloaded today, obviously. For some reason I was thinking there was 8 and was trying to remember what OgreSlayer was talking about for getting a different one...with the compass?
BTW, I did manage to get max population. :)
Here is a strategy I came up with for Kasandora. It requires two turns of waiting at the end which I think is the minimum given current circumstances. It definitely is way less waiting than my published run.
Thanks to all the great discussion here, I improved my speedrun. I managed to do 1:09:06 (timing from after the initial discussion - just before you can set the text speed, to when I lose control after Tanzara).
Getting the 7th scroll may seem like a waste of time, but after this run through, I don't think so...even for a TAS. You still need to build SOMEWHERE to boost population (since you generally get hampered around Casandra/Aitos), so you might as well take the time to do it there and then go use the scroll in Deathheim.
As a side note, you CAN beat the Filmoa Act II boss faster with 2 scrolls. I beat it with 189 left on the timer on a console. I've got it recorded, so I might clip that video out later.
A little strategy I picked up just now for Northwall Act II's boss:
It's possible to get as many as SEVEN sword hits on him, if you get him to spawn on the right, near the high bump on that side. You may even get 8 if you do it dead on perfect. 8 would allow you to beat him in 4 rounds without magic.
A little strategy I picked up just now for Northwall Act II's boss:
It's possible to get as many as SEVEN sword hits on him, if you get him to spawn on the right, near the high bump on that side. You may even get 8 if you do it dead on perfect. 8 would allow you to beat him in 4 rounds without magic.
Yep, I noticed that while doing the testing in Deathheim.
I think I've finally perfected the normal game simulation strategy. I'll try to get some maps done for you quickly that should show my strategy. With it, I'm not doing much excessive waiting, wind up with 7 MP, hit the end of Aitos and Marahna perfectly population wise to go on to the next sections.
Getting the 7th scroll may seem like a waste of time, but after this run through, I don't think so...even for a TAS. You still need to build SOMEWHERE to boost population (since you generally get hampered around Casandra/Aitos), so you might as well take the time to do it there and then go use the scroll in Deathheim.
Don't forget, however, that you still need to clear those three squares of bushes to get the scroll. That takes some time, more than can be saved with any single scroll in Deathheim. And yes, around 20 frames could be saved with the first boss with a 2nd scroll, IIRC. However, I think it would be better not to wait in Fillmore before moving onto Bloodpool, because you don't get the benefit of phantom construction in other towns. Waiting in Fillmore on the way to Maranha wouldn't be good either, because the time to enter and leave Fillmore would, combined with the time to clear the bushes, easily nullify any time savings from getting the scroll.
In fact, I'm not sure where I got my figure of 450 frames to clear three bushes... I re-tested and clearing a bush actually delays the construction timer (located at 7F91FE and 7F91FF) for about 340 frames, including the time to go through the menu in frame advance. That means at least 1020 frames of delay to clear three bushes, not 450. With that kind of delay, I have no idea why I'd want to fetch the 7th scroll. I never got a single scroll in Deathheim to save more than 420 frames. If you think that 7th scroll will somehow save at least 1020 frames, I'd really like to know how!
As I stated, you have to wait for population growth anyways, whether it's in Filmoa or wherever.
"Phantom" building only happens in a couple locations. If I remember right, there's a phantom build in Filmoa and in Aitos, but that's only if the road building was done and the soul counter allows for that growth. The additional growth that occurs 3 construction cycles in a new land if you cleared Act II of the prior is planned, and will only have limited benefit anyways.
And I bet with some ridiculous luck, you could probably save the 450 frames by having that 7th scroll. You're not losing 1020, because you have to build SOMEWHERE. Plus having the growth in Filmoa is actually beneficial, because that gives them more room to expand, more room to plant houses, more room to get to the max you can get. And since it's first, you might (I'm not positive) get that benefit in every land after that until the max. I gained 128 people in my present speedrun, so probably 3 high quality growths. With additional room to build, you may get another growth of 40 or so. If my theory is correct (I'll have to look at my new recording attempts an analyze them), you may save a TON of time building that way.
I've still got some analyzing to do.
Sorry, I shouldn't have said phantom construction. I was just talking in general about the construction that happens when you're not in a town.
Sir VG wrote:
You're not losing 1020, because you have to build SOMEWHERE.
I'm not sure you understand. Let me explain the construction timer a bit. The construction timer increments by 1 every frame. Once it reaches 720, it resets to 0 and, after some lag, the people start building houses. Once they're done building houses, the counter starts incrementing again. While a spell is going through it's animation, the construction timer does not increment. Same thing for when you're in the menu. That's what I was talking about with the 1020 frame delay. It doesn't matter whether I'm waiting for the people to build or where I'm waiting, about 1020 frames of the construction timer not incrementing will irrevocably occur if I clear those bushes, compared to if I didn't clear them. I could've had one more construction phase begin in that time. So while I do have to build somewhere, clearing those bushes is not a good idea because it slows down growth by a fair amount. Instead, I should be building roads somewhere else where I don't have to clear any obstacles.
Even with 6 scrolls, I would, according to the results of my Death Heim tests, have great difficulty saving 150 frames compared to having 5 scrolls. The savings are even more negligible with 7 scrolls compared to 6 scrolls.
Let me lay out the results of my tests:
Boss 1: 420 frames saved with 1 scroll used on the boss
Boss 2: 278 frames saved with 1 scroll, 70 more with 2
Boss 3: 296 frames saved with 1 scroll used on the boss
Boss 4: 161 frames saved with 1 scroll used on the boss
Boss 5: none saved
Boss 6: 156 frames saved with 1 scroll used on the boss , ?? more with 2 (didn't think to write it down. It was less than 150).
As you can see, the savings from the scrolls are not that much compared to the time it takes to fetch some of them. As I go through the sims, I'm only going to bother fetching scrolls if I can retrieve them very quickly.
Sir VG wrote:
Plus having the growth in Filmoa is actually beneficial, because that gives them more room to expand, more room to plant houses, more room to get to the max you can get. And since it's first, you might (I'm not positive) get that benefit in every land after that until the max. I gained 128 people in my present speedrun, so probably 3 high quality growths. With additional room to build, you may get another growth of 40 or so.
That's why I built those side roads in my WIP: They accommodate for the growth that happens when you're away.
BTW, did you see my post wondering if there was a way we could talk on IRC or AIM or something like that? I think that would make strategy discussions much easier.
EDIT: Sorry if I sounded ticked off. I notice that you've managed an even better time. Could I take a look at that if you made a recording? I feel like I'm somehow not communicating very well; perhaps it would help if I could see your strategy being carried out?
