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General Information

  • Emulator: FCEUX 2.1.0a
  • Uses Death and Damage to save time
  • Heavily Manipulates Luck
  • Corrupts RAM addresses
Here is version 2 of the "glitched route" for Dragon Warrior 3. This version is approximately 9 minutes faster than its predecessor.

Details

The main reason this video is faster is because it utilizes a new method to glitch items. Specifically, the "dream ruby" glitch is done without the dream ruby. Instead, numbness is achieved by fighting Killer Bees near Kanave, and the Dream Ruby cave is never entered. This saves a significant amount of time. In addition, glitching is done in the overworld outside of Aliahan, which is much faster than glitching in town at Assaram. The one exception is the spells - spells must be glitched in town. Return locations are glitched in town simultaneously with the spells, but they can be glitched outside as well. Finally, less items are glitched - the biggest timesaver here is not that less time is spent glitching, but rather, less time is spent acquiring necessary items to glitch. In the previous version, I glitched a Poison Needle (from a Thorn Whip 320 gold) for the Hero and two Shield of Heroes (from Bronze Shield 180 gold each) for my pilgrims. These items are not glitched in this movie. Thus, I am able to get through the Tower of Najima much faster as well since I don't have to collect items or gold. I use my Black Raven gold to just buy two Silver Shields for the Pilgrims in Rimuldar.
Glitching is Assaram using the dream ruby requires a dead hero and 3 numb party members. Glitching in Luisa's place is done with 4 dead party members. The numb character is needed because this is the only way you can acquire a party with 4 dead members. Normally, you cannot leave party members with Luisa if only dead members will remain. The numb character can be given to Luisa, leaving only dead members behind. The remaining dead people (given to Luisa earlier) can then be picked back up to have 4 dead members. You can glitch with just two or three dead members, but a "phantom" character will be created. He cannot be revived, leave your party, level up, or do any actions in battle. Occasionally, he will cause enemies to attack "nothing" or even attack themselves, but this is very unpredictable. Even glitching with 4 characters must be done with caution - if you walk outside at the wrong time, your party will "break apart" causing a similar effect. You will become a group of one or two ghosts walking around but never changing direction or moving your feet to walk, and your characters are sometimes not revivable.
A total of 37 "moves" down the RAM item list is required to glitch all of my items - however, this turn into 36 because the cypress stick creates two black ravens instead of just one. Thus, one less "move" is needed. Outside of town, I take two timed steps. On the first step, the first item in the first person's inventory is changed. On the second step, the first item in the first person's AND second person's inventory is changed. Thus, 3 "moves" occur each visit outside of the castle, requiring a total of 12 trips. These moves are based on the music playing in the song when the screen flashes, specifically memory address D6. When D6 = 2C, the inventory of person 1 changes. When D6 = 34, the inventory of the first two people change. These notes occur a few seconds into the song, which gives a few seconds of "dead time" on each outside trip. This time is put to good use since I need to throw away some items (copper sword, extra cypress stick that was created during spell glitching), transfer items, or rearrange party formation. Thus, no time is really "wasted" since I would have had to do these actions anyway. I do have to do a couple of "extra" item transfers in town which do use time, however. When you watch this movie and the old movie, you'll be pleasantly surprised at how "fast" each step is compared to the old movie. (Once again, the exception here is the in-town spell glitching).
The spells must be glitched in town. I am not sure why they cannot be glitched outside. It may have to do with a certain musical note that never plays in the outside music.
Return locations are glitched when D6 = 0B. This note is hit both in town and outside.
This movie also gets into less battles than version 1. I do not encounter any fights in the Tower of Najima, or Cave of Enticement. Since I walk less steps and don't have to conserve magic for the extra Dream Ruby cave, I can use HEAL to avoid all fights rather than running from a few of them. An additional item that I glitch that was not glitched in the first version is a Wizard's Ring. In the first movie, I entered a few extra fights in Zoma's Castle to prevent running out of magic before level B5. With the Wizard's Ring, I can use HEAL to avoid all battles, and use the Wizard's Ring also to avoid battles, while refilling low MP. The RNG effect is almost identical. Further, the Wizard's Ring gives another RNG manipulator that is used in battle against a Metal Babble.
The Ortega fight is faster in this video. Using just one additional HEAL before the battle caused him to chant HEALALL just once in battle and die much quicker.

Each party member has a purpose:

  • Hero: Use the Sword of Kings in battle for attack/luck manip. Act as a "tank" with high defense and HP to protect the rest of the party (letting them parry in battle).
  • Pilgrims: Main attackers. Use DEFEAT (Granite Titans), INFERMOST (Zoma's Minions), and HEALALL (Zoma).
  • Wizard: Experience Specialist - Metal Babble and Bomb Crag killer (use the Poison Needle). Decent attacker for 2 of the 3 Zoma Minions. (Blazemore)

Battles entered in this video:

  • 1. Black Ravens (kill two of my party members for later glitching)
  • 2. Killer Bees (kill party members and get one person numb for glitching)
  • 3. Slime and Black Ravens (fight for RNG manipulation)
  • 4. Gas Cloud and Putrepup (run for RNG manipulation)
  • 5. Bomb Crags (fight for EXP)
  • 6. Metal Babbles (fight for EXP)
  • 7. Goopies (fight for EXP and RNG manipulation)
  • 8. Wyvern and Darthbear (fight for EXP and RNG manipulation)
  • 9. Metal Babbles (fight for EXP)
  • 10, 11, 12. Granite Titans (must be defeated to get to lower levels of Zoma's Castle)
  • 13, 14, 15. Zoma's Minions
  • 16. Zoma

Some time losses in this movie (relative to version 1)

Due to the new glitching routine, I had to create 3 characters at the Hall of Registration as opposed to 1. In addition, I have to spend a short amount of time killing two of my party members at the beginning. Switching party members at Luisa's place takes some time also.
General bad luck - I had to do some screwy things to manipulate a Bomb Crag fight and the second Metal Babble fight. This is more time consuming than in version 1.
I buy some unneeded herbs in Aliahan. Due to the very-difficult-to-manipulate-RNG, I buy 3 herbs each for Hero and Wizard (just in case), but only use two in the video. One is used just instead of HEAL to make inventory room for the Hero (sigh) to prevent another item transfer before Zoma, and only one is used during the Zoma fight (for a lot of damage). The wizard is only useful in the Zoma fight to allow Pilg #2 to use Parry-Heal.

Remaining Questions:

Q: Could this movie be done faster?
A: With better RNG, all battles could be done faster. But once again, the DW3 RNG is very different from other DW games. It is much harder to manipulate. Good RNG here could mean terrible RNG later, and vice versa.
Q: Would a Soldier ever be of use?
A: Only if he had a glitched Thor's Sword (chants Firevolt in battle) for the Minions, and Herbs for Zoma. Unfortunately, herb damage is very inconsistent (sometimes as low as 5!). HealAll from Pilgrims is better than herbs on Zoma, and Infermost will work on all minions, whereas Firevolt won't work on the King Hydra. A soldier in the party lead would allow 3 Parry-Fights instead of just 2. A fighter is only useful in the (J) version of the game. See Pirohiko's movie for a demonstration.
Q: What about a Hero and 3 Pilgrims?
A: This could be doable, but only if a Poison Needle is glitched for at least one of the characters to kill Bomb Crags and Metal Babbles. Having an extra Infermost and HealAll would be nice for the final battles, though.
Q: Could the Bomb Crags be skipped? AKA - Could Metal Babbles just be fought on Level 1?
A: In theory, yes. I tried this unsuccessfully. Fireball can easily kill Level 1 party members, and extra MP is sometimes needed for manipulation before and during the fight.
Q: Can the Ortega fight be skipped?
A: Find the RAM address of the Ortega flag, and I'll let you know if it is glitchable.

adelikat: Accepting as an improvement to the published movie.

TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #2577: dave_dfwm's NES Dragon Warrior 3 "item glitch" in 48:28.08
NitroGenesis
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Pretty weird that its been over 4 hours since you submitted this but nobody's provided any feedback. I thought it was solid, yes vote.
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
sgrunt
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I'm going to be mildly nit-picky. Consider it constructive criticism. What's with the autofire during dialog? Unless it can only close every two frames, you could be losing 1 frame per dialog box. Are you possibly losing time here, or can you verify that you are not?
Submission Text wrote:
The Ortega fight is faster in this video. Using just one additional HEAL before the battle caused him to chant HEALALL just once in battle and die much quicker.
Submission Text wrote:
General bad luck - I had to do some screwy things to manipulate a Bomb Crag fight and the second Metal Babble fight. This is more time consuming than in version 1.
I feel like some RNG delving could make this run a lot more precise. You should be able to see things far ahead of time if it really is this rigid. I feel that battles 3,4,7, and 8 (at a glance) aren't necessary in an optimal run. I also feel that since you feel the possibility may exist to kill a metal babble at level 1, this should be further investigated. This RNG is supposedly very rigid, what is stopping you from calculating everything beginning to end on a future run before even starting? If every action increments it a set amount, you should be able to plan everything before even starting, and then simply execute it. Correct me if I'm wrong. I can't accurately judge how much effort was put into the RNG manipulation, as it wouldn't necessarily show through the rerecord count. The fact that you're saying 'bad luck' as opposed to 'unfeasible scenario' leads me to believe you don't know exactly the path of the RNG necessary to make this feasible. I think it could fairly accurately be investigated if a metal babble fight is possible at level 1 based on the approximate RNG at that point in the run. This would save over 30 seconds, and should be investigated on a future run. It seems like you're saying it is beyond your ability to check this currently, which is acceptable for now, but you should learn how in the future. Games like this are much better calculated than using situational trial and error methods. The non-RNG related portions of the run seemed optimal. I feel that more should be done in planning the RNG path for a future version. Overall thoughts: Good movie, thanks for making it. The glitching and overall route were good. I question how optimal your RNG manipulation execution was. Feel free to deny this accusation by citing facts, but from viewing, this is how I observed it. Really I'm directly questioning, "Were you just doing the best manipulation through mediocre trial and error methods, or were you actually observing and calculating the RNG effects and how you could best advance them to the next point for a more optimal outcome in battle?" It seemed like the former. Please correct me if it was the latter. Yes vote, glad to see this movie on the workbench, but I'd like to see you be a bit more wary of the RNG in future executions if my speculations are correct.
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Kirkq wrote:
This RNG is supposedly very rigid, what is stopping you from calculating everything beginning to end on a future run before even starting? If every action increments it a set amount, you should be able to plan everything before even starting, and then simply execute it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I suppose I could define "planning" as two separate ideas. First, RNG planning, and second, just logistics planning. First: For RNG planning: Advanced RNG planning is done - but can only be done to an extent. Mostly in the dungeons and Alefgard (which is treated like a dungeon in terms of outside enemy manipulation). Calculating "beginning to end" can really only be done on a per-dungeon basis. For example, Zoma's Castle: Once you get to the castle, your timing will not effect anything. Only actions (and in certain cases the number of steps taken) affect the RNG. Thus, for the final dungeon, you can do a whole advanced planned route - play through in real-time (while recording) and figure out the quickest steps to kill the Granite Titans and bosses. Then, play through in TAS-mode. The advanced planning method would not work very well beyond that point due to overworld and town walking, which DO depend on timing. Basically, the idea is this: *Calculate the quickest way to kill off two party members: Do it - move to next part of movie *Calculate best route through Tower and Cave - do it *Calculate quickest bee fight - do it... etc, etc In sum, I suppose I could say that advanced RNG planning was indeed done, but done in "pieces" of the movie rather than the entire movie itself. Second: Logistics planning: By logistics, I mean knowing when to purchase and sell items, what treasure to pick up, how much gold I will have, etc. For the most part, this is done well in advance before I even record a single frame. A big part of this project was pre-planning a quicker pre-glitch route that would save time by picking up less treasure and buying less items. Overall: Overall, I think there is still a lot to learn about the game, such as fight queues, and how using heal, running from fights, or doing various actions in the fights (and then winning or running) affect where you are at in the fight queue. Often, it is easy to find the quickest way through a fight with Crags or Babbles, but it is often harder to quickly get to the fight in the first place.[/i]
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dave_dfwm wrote:
Overall, I think there is still a lot to learn about the game, such as fight queues, and how using heal, running from fights, or doing various actions in the fights (and then winning or running) affect where you are at in the fight queue. Often, it is easy to find the quickest way through a fight with Crags or Babbles, but it is often harder to quickly get to the fight in the first place.[/i]
How many RNGs does getting into a fight actually increment, is it that much faster than just walking around and waiting? I also still think it is probably possible to kill a metal babble or two at level 1 if you wait for the right RNG. If you killed 3 in one fight at a higher level, this would save about 30-60 seconds as well. The RNG is at 001C and 001D, right? What is the incrementation method? The overworld non-walking increment is at C3D2 I think? Could someone interpret the calculation for me?
00:C3B8:98        TYA
00:C3B9:48        PHA
00:C3BA:A9 FF     LDA #$FF
00:C3BC:85 21     STA $0021 = #$00
00:C3BE:20 D2 C3  JSR $C3D2
00:C3C1:A9 FF     LDA #$FF
00:C3C3:85 21     STA $0021 = #$00
00:C3C5:20 D2 C3  JSR $C3D2
00:C3C8:E6 A4     INC $00A4 = #$79
00:C3CA:68        PLA
00:C3CB:A8        TAY
00:C3CC:A5 1C     LDA $001C = #$65
00:C3CE:18        CLC
00:C3CF:65 A4     ADC $00A4 = #$79
00:C3D1:60        RTS

00:C3D2:A0 08     LDY #$08
00:C3D4:A5 1D     LDA $001D = #$AE
00:C3D6:45 21     EOR $0021 = #$FF
00:C3D8:06 1C     ASL $001C = #$D3
00:C3DA:26 1D     ROL $001D = #$AE
00:C3DC:06 21     ASL $0021 = #$FF
00:C3DE:0A        ASL
00:C3DF:90 0C     BCC $C3ED
00:C3E1:A5 1C     LDA $001C = #$D3
00:C3E3:49 21     EOR #$21
00:C3E5:85 1C     STA $001C = #$D3
00:C3E7:A5 1D     LDA $001D = #$AE
00:C3E9:49 10     EOR #$10
00:C3EB:85 1D     STA $001D = #$AE
00:C3ED:88        DEY
00:C3EE:D0 E4     BNE $C3D4
00:9974:29 07     AND #$07
00:9976:F0 05     BEQ $997D
00:9978:A5 9D     LDA $009D = #$01
00:997A:4C 95 99  JMP $9995
00:997D:20 B8 C3  JSR $C3B8
00:9980:29 03     AND #$03
00:9982:85 3E     STA $003E = #$00
00:9984:A5 9D     LDA $009D = #$01
00:9986:29 03     AND #$03
00:9988:45 3E     EOR $003E = #$00
00:998A:C9 02     CMP #$02
00:998C:D0 05     BNE $9993
00:998E:A5 9D     LDA $009D = #$01
00:9990:4C 95 99  JMP $9995
00:9993:A5 3E     LDA $003E = #$00
00:9995:29 03     AND #$03
00:9997:48        PHA
00:9998:F0 16     BEQ $99B0
00:999A:C9 01     CMP #$01
00:999C:F0 20     BEQ $99BE
00:999E:C9 02     CMP #$02
00:99A0:F0 2A     BEQ $99CC
00:99A2:C6 80     DEC $0080 = #$DA
00:99A4:20 FB 99  JSR $99FB
EDIT: The following supercedes most of my previous discussion, but not all of it. Oh wow, this RNG isn't really even random on the overworld. The only thing you can do is wait, and even then you can only skip RNGs by waiting 64 frames. From what I gathered there are 3 increment types (you probably knew these) Walking (16 frames per step) +1 RNG Overworld (64 frames) +2 RNGs Town (128 frame cycle, a constant number of times per town in 16 frame intervals (5 times in Rimuldar)) +1 RNG Note: All party members must be off of the town or dungeon square before the 64 frame increment occurs. I now see that in caves you will hit every RNG unless you manually skip them. The battles are essentially the only way to radically change the RNG enough to produce a rare outcome. Walking on plains has the minimal encounter rate. On the RNGs you will get engaged on plains, will you always get engaged on any tile? Also on a separate note, Kathias had spare MP to use Return to exit Rimuldar after using the inn. I am fairly convinced that walking around outside before going from Bomb Crags to Rimuldar and Returning out would have been much faster than advancing the RNG inside Rimuldar. Maybe this could be hexed in? Byte 6a65 goes from 00 to 01 after Ortega dies, but overwriting this doesn't seem to remove him from the game, so I don't think this is the one we are looking for. I have a better understanding of what is going on now. Based on these observations, I still feel you could plot the whole run.
arflech
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sgrunt wrote:
Well, maybe an encode will be enough to motivate others to watch this... http://www.archive.org/download/DragonWarrior3ItemGlitchIn4828.08ByDavedfwm/dragonwarrior3-tasv2-glitched-davedfwm.mp4 Stream it here: http://www.zexsoft.com/aktan/?DragonWarrior3ItemGlitchIn4828.08ByDavedfwm/dragonwarrior3-tasv2-glitched-davedfwm
I'm not sure whether you realize this, but archive.org makes streaming versions available automatically; remove that filename from the end of the URL, change "download" to "details" and voilà: http://www.archive.org/details/DragonWarrior3ItemGlitchIn4828.08ByDavedfwm/
i imgur com/QiCaaH8 png
sgrunt
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arflech wrote:
I'm not sure whether you realize this, but archive.org makes streaming versions available automatically; remove that filename from the end of the URL, change "download" to "details" and voilà: http://www.archive.org/details/DragonWarrior3ItemGlitchIn4828.08ByDavedfwm/
That has been known for a while now; Aktan provided his own version due to various flaws in archive.org's player (the details of which escape me at the moment).
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arflech wrote:
I'm not sure whether you realize this, but archive.org makes streaming versions available automatically; remove that filename from the end of the URL, change "download" to "details" and voilà: http://www.archive.org/details/DragonWarrior3ItemGlitchIn4828.08ByDavedfwm/
The streaming versions are not good quality compared to our custom settings. Hence why I usually replace the file.
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I finally got around to checking this out. Nice improvement in glitching technique! Yes vote. To give people a clue about how the glitching goes on during the run, would you be interested in making subtitles, dave_dfwm? It might be nice to have occasional ones, such as which items got glitched during each round of glitching.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
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I enjoyed this thoroughly. Good improvement to an already interesting movie. Even if better RNG manipulation is out there, this should be accepted based on the improvement.
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Man, it must suck to be a boy named Kathias. The function at C3D2 is a kind of LFSR, equivalent to the following C code: void UpdateRNG(int param) { static int Rng; int i; for(i=0;i<8;i++) { Rng<<=1; param<<=1; if((Rng^(param<<8)) &0x10000) { Rng^=0x1021; } }
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Since it was requested, here is a list of the items that are changed for each glitch trip. Format: Trip number. (extra activity). #1 Start Item --> #1 End Item...... #2 Start Item --> #2 End Item 1. (Throw away Club). Wayfarer's Clothes --> Sacred Robe...... Cypress Stick --> Two Black Ravens 2. (Transfer Leather Helm to Wizard). Sacred Robe --> Armor of Radiance...... Black Raven --> Green Orb 3. (Transfer AOR to Hero). Cypress Stick --> Green Orb...... Green Orb --> Purple Orb 4. (Throw away Copper Sword). Green Orb --> Red Orb...... Purple Orb --> Red Orb 5. (Drop Cypress Stick). Red Orb --> Spider's Web...... Red Orb --> Rainbow Drop 6. (Formation H P1 W P2). Medical Herb --> Vitality Seed...... Wayfarer's Clothes --> Water Flying Cloth 7. (Formation H P2 W P1). Vitality Seed --> Royal Scroll...... Spider's Web --> Sphere of Light 7b in town (Transfer Rainbow Drop to P2) 8. (Form H W P1 P2). Royal Scroll --> Magic Key...... Clothes --> Dragon Killer 9. (Transfer Magic Key to self). Thief Key --> Staff of Change...... Dragon Killer --> Sword of Kings 9b in town (Transfer Sword of Kings to Hero) 10. (W Equip Leather Helmet). Staff of Change --> Sage's Stone...... E Leather Helmet --> E Turban 11. (Form W H P1 P2). E Turban --> E Gold Crown...... Sage's Stone --> Wizard's Ring 12. (Transfer Wizard's Ring to P1). E Gold Crown --> E Shield of Heroes...... Bronze Shield --> Shield of Heroes
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one of my favorite rpgs ever. great job. yes!!
__--N0ISE
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Submission Text wrote:
A: Find the RAM address of the Ortega flag, and I'll let you know if it is glitchable.
What disappoints me is that you didn't bother to find the flag (or any other event flags like this) when doing this TAS. If it is glitchable that would save considerable time.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [1481] NES Dragon Warrior III "item glitch" by dave_dfwm in 48:28.08
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This run was given the "Corrupts save data" tag, but does it? Doesn't it simply glitch RAM values, not save data?
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FYI, writing 16 to 0x60B9 signals the Ortega fight being completed. I'm wondering if similar bytes could be found for the granite statues and the pre-Zoma bosses.
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DarkKobold wrote:
granite statues and the pre-Zoma bosses.
The pre-zoma bosses can't be skipped, they appear every time you enter the room. But granite titans are a good idea.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Dwedit
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The Youtube encode looks horrible, lots of areas on the screen not being repainted. edit: The main glitch can't touch variables outside of the zeropage or character stats area. Maybe some crazy glitching in the zeropage could affect an arbitrary ram address, but I think it's unlikely.
Dwedit
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Now that we have a "Corrupts Memory" tag, this run needs it badly. Edit: I can see that it now has this tag.