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While working on the New Game+ run, I found a few improvements for the any% run. These improvements include a couple of new shortcuts, better off-screen coordination with Tails, better control of Tails re-spawns and slightly improved precision; they combine to make an epic movie faster by 1226 frames in the in-game timer, which amounts to 832 frames faster in real time. Note that although neither Nitsuja nor Upthorn were actively involved in this improvement, they are listed as co-authors because their input comprises a large portion of the movie.

Game objectives

  • Emulator used: Gens 11a + S3KCamhack + SolidityViewer + (partial)HitboxDisplay + LUA HUD for Genesis Sonic games
  • Ignores delays caused by bonus effects
  • Aims for fastest (primarily in-game) time
  • Takes Damage to save time
  • Abuses death
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Counts time spent dying
  • One player controls two characters

Comments

Several levels are improved due to slightly better precision: notably, Hydrocity 1, the death sequence at the start of Hydrocity 2, Marble Garden 2, Launch Base 1, the cutscene after Launch Base 2 and Lava Reef 2. "Improved precision" in this context also includes improvements to the boss fights.
Hydrocity 2 and Marble Garden 1 were improved mainly due to better off-screen manipulation of Tails, leading to better boss fights.
Flying Battery 1 and 2 gained new shortcuts, resulting in the large share of the improvement of this revision.
There are 20 frames worth of luck-manipulating pauses at the end of Sky Sanctuary; these are intended to put the Death Egg 1 mini-boss in a more favorable pattern. All other luck manipulation pauses from previous versions of the run have been eliminated.

Comparison Table

ActNew TimeOld TimeSavings
Hydrocity 10:33::050:33::2116
Hydrocity 2 death0:09::090:09::1910
Hydrocity 20:25::240:28::23179
Marble Garden 10:30::070:30::2922
Marble Garden 20:35::360:35::5317
Launch Base 10:37::030:37::4138
Post Launch Base cutscene 20:17::530:18::018
Flying Battery 10:56::161:08::22726
Flying Battery 21:11::211:14::48207
Lava Reef 20:21::410:21::443
Total savings: 1226 frames (20 seconds and 26 frames) in in-game time, 832 frames (13 seconds and 52 frames) in real time. Differences in lag and the removal of the aforementioned pauses compensated each other almost completely; but I gained a net 6 frames in real time from the balance.
The table shows the in-game timer values. The value after the final colon indicates the in-game frame counter, and is restricted to the 0-59 range. It is updated every frame (except during lag frames), and increments the in-game second when resetting to zero.

Stage by stage comments

Hydrocity 1

There was a substantial delay between the last two hits in the boss; with a slight change of velocity manipulation, it was possible to eliminate that delay. This was discovered by accident because I needed to manipulate Sonic's subpixel position to improve the death sequence at the beginning of the next act.

Hydrocity 2

The death sequence is improved in precision.
For the normal portion of the act, I manipulate Tails to stay on-screen longer at the start of the level; this way, his re-spawn is delayed enough that he gets teleported along with Sonic to the boss. Heavy off-screen coordination of Tails and Sonic allow me to get Tails flying above the top of the screen boundary at the boss, for a much faster boss fight.

Marble Garden 1

Manipulating Tails offscreen allows him to reach the boss faster.

Marble Garden 2

Improved precision when going inside the wall gives 8 frames because Sonic falls faster into the wall. The boss configuration is much more favorable, giving the rest of the improvement in this level.

Launch Base 1

The better boss fight gives a better time for the act. I delay the death at the end by 2 frames (by holding the jump button for 1 more frame) to manipulate the timing of the first flamethrower in the next act; if I didn't, it would harm Sonic.

Launch Base 2

Better positioning after the boss is killed slightly reduces the transition cutscene.

Flying Battery 1

The first improvement found for the any% run; I found this while working on the New Game+ run. The handle causes Sonic to fall to the ground several times, and makes for a jerky motion horizontally -- it is this jerkiness allows me to enter the wall. I must enter the wall to get both the handle and Tails offscreen while I jump off and hit the "ground" in the wall; anything else will cancel the anti-gravity glitch.

Flying Battery 2

The above improvement placed some timed objects in very inconvenient positions in the level, preventing me from using the route from the old movie. Undaunted, I found another one faster :-)

Lava Reef 1

Several frames worth of pauses were removed from the end of Sandopolis 2. This forced me to replay the boss battle which had desynched due to differences in luck.

Lava Reef 2

At the very end, an extra rev in the spindash not only is possible, but saves 2 frames due to the higher speed; the earlier jump to the platform saves the other frame.

Sky Sanctuary

Instead of adding pauses to correct the desynch, I simply replayed the boss battle, given that the attack pattern was as favorable as it was in the previous run.

Other comments

For more comments about the run, see the comments from the previous run, as well as the runs that it obsoletes.
I started the run from the previous run, keeping the rerecord count and splicing in the unchanged input as needed.
I also corrected the version of the run to the correct value (version 7) as discussed here.
I wish to thank Nitsuja and Upthorn for making the previous run(s), as well as improving the tools for making runs.

Possible Improvements

In Marble Garden 2, there is one of Robotnik's attack patterns which allows a 1 frame improvement; it takes much longer to manipulate it (with pauses or by loitering) than it is worth, unless one were to gain enough frames in the preceding levels to manipulate this attack pattern (not an easy task).
If one were to replay the Death Egg 1 boss, up to 20 frames in real time (but none in in-game time) might be saved by removing the pauses at the end of Sky Sanctuary. However, most of the boss attack patterns in that range are highly unfavorable and probably slower to kill; in all likelihood, at most about 10 frames of pauses might be gained by replaying the fight. Again, this would only be a gain in real time; in in-game time, no frames can be gained from this.
With the same input and the same position (right down to the same subpixel position), the death at the start of Hydrocity 2 can be 1 frame faster -- Sonic even dies at the same frame, but the timer stops 1 frame earlier. Likewise, the post-Launch Base 2 cutscene can be 2 frames faster by standing in the same exact position. I don't know what causes these differences, but it is probably related to cumulative differences in execution, as they usually occur when the preceding levels have changed in length (up or down). If one were to gain "enough" frames in the preceding levels (again, not an easy task), these "extra" frames might simply just go away; I have no idea what would constitute "enough" frames for this to happen, though.
I am not aware of any other improvements at this time.

Suggested screenshot

Frame 59745:

sgrunt: Removing the branch tag for consistency with previous runs.
marzojr: Updating and linking in suggested screenshot.

adelikat: Accepting for publication as an improvement to the published movie.

TASVideoAgent
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Yes, Yes, oh and YES!
NitroGenesis
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yes
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
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Sonic glitches more stylishly then Mario. Faster, stronger, gonna be a star? Yes vote.
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This is a very easy YES vote from me. It's an improvement to one of my favourite movies of all times. I won't encode this since it was claimed; however here is your frame 16783: (4613 bytes). Not the funniest screenshot, in my opinion, but you are the author ;)
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Noob Irdoh, go ahead, my encode audio desynchs.
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
marzojr
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Noob Irdoh: That is only a suggestion; if you have a better suggestion, by all means use it instead. Other suggestions are frame 59745 and 59858.
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Here is screenshot 59745: (4904 bytes) And here is screenshot 59858: (6318 bytes) I like screenshot 59745, it's funny. I vote for it.
N. Harmonik
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You're calling this 'glitched any%'. Does this mean someone's working on a glitchless version?
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
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@Harmonik: Not that I know of; this field is presented in the submission as being the "branch" to which the run belongs. Although it most likely will be reset on publication to "Sonic+Tails any%" (or even empty) because there isn't a "glitchless" branch and the previous version has a blank branch.
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I'm encoding this in 4K HD, but it will take a while... this means that nothing else on the workbench can be encoded in HD by me, either. I hope this isn't published too fast, I won't be able to keep up. Unless someone wants to give me a Fiber Optic connection, I refuse to upload a 20 gigabyte or higher file to YouTube.
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Flygon wrote:
<s>I'm encoding this in 4K HD, but it will take a while... this means that nothing else on the workbench can be encoded in HD by me, either. I hope this isn't published too fast, I won't be able to keep up.</s> Unless someone wants to give me a Fiber Optic connection, I refuse to upload a 20 gigabyte or higher file to YouTube.
20GB? FINALLY a REAL use for Blu-Ray Discs!
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Flygon wrote:
I'm encoding this in 4K HD, but it will take a while... this means that nothing else on the workbench can be encoded in HD by me, either. I hope this isn't published too fast, I won't be able to keep up. Unless someone wants to give me a Fiber Optic connection, I refuse to upload a 20 gigabyte or higher file to YouTube.
I thought 1Gb was the upload limit to youtube.
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Mitjitsu wrote:
Flygon wrote:
I'm encoding this in 4K HD, but it will take a while... this means that nothing else on the workbench can be encoded in HD by me, either. I hope this isn't published too fast, I won't be able to keep up. Unless someone wants to give me a Fiber Optic connection, I refuse to upload a 20 gigabyte or higher file to YouTube.
I thought 1Gb was the upload limit to youtube.
The Java uploader has a limit of 20 gigabytes. More documentation here.
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I's been a while since I watched the last run so the only improvements that were particularly obvious to me was the Flying Battery stuff. Anyway, still the most entertaining run on the site in my opinion. It's great that the game gets more and more broken yet remains watchable. I sometimes worry, as more versions come through, that eventually the entertainment will start to suffer as a result of too many glithes. Hopefully that day is still very far off. Yes vote, of course.
Post subject: Sonic and Knuckles &m Sonic 3 in 32:05 by JSP, JJN & MJ
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I vote yes I also want to say that I have in mind an improvement
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GGG: So, the run sat for two days over in the S3K thread waiting for feedback and you waited until it was submitted to mention possible improvements? That is a really nasty habit of yours...
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I don't recall ever seeing posts from GGG outside of the workbench/published movies sections. *shrug*
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I should imagine that these improvements would make the movie. Although some improvements were slight. After all, I vote yes.
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Definately voting yes as a great improvement to the previous run!
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Mukki wrote:
It's great that the game gets more and more broken yet remains watchable. I sometimes worry, as more versions come through, that eventually the entertainment will start to suffer as a result of too many glithes. Hopefully that day is still very far off.
You know, I've been thinking about this myself. A couple of years ago I was starting to get jaded about all the breaking of Sonic 3 levels that was going on, but in the past two months or so I've started running the game again (using a fair number of glitches discovered in the TASes) and I'm really starting to enjoy watching the game be broken again. The Hyper Sonic run does border on the ridiculous though. Obvious yes.
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I very much regret the delay of those two days, but it is very difficult to improve or find a glitch. But I think I've found Angel Island 2: I've been watching the movie marzoJr (here) and I've seen in the following image, which sonic makes do the double jump and lands in inside the soil. Could it be possible? Hidrocity 2 (death): I would say could be the same, nothing else better 1 or 2 frames Sandopolis 1: do not know if it will be possible to make the glitch, so you have to try (If you have done no matter) Well that's all. I hope that helps. Able to back with new ideas, I think, but we'll see
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GGG wrote:
Angel Island 2: I've been watching the movie marzoJr (here) and I've seen in the following image, which sonic makes do the double jump and lands in inside the soil. Could it be possible?
If you frame advance it, you will notice that Hyper Sonic doesn't actually double-jump into the ground once, but twice: once to embed his lower portion into the ground (which enables a shallow zip right to the good spot) and the second time to completely enter the ground. Regular Sonic not only cannot get high enough with enough horizontal velocity to get in the ground like that, but using a bubble bounce would have the disastrous result of getting Sonic stuck in the wall with no way out.
GGG wrote:
Hidrocity 2 (death)
The newest death (where I manage to lock the screen during the transition resulting) is impossible to reproduce because it requires a very long zip (and regular Sonic only gets a short one). The next-to-last death is essentially the one in the movie -- right down to subpixel position and same input, but 1 frame longer nevertheless. As I said in the description, even :-)
GGG wrote:
Sandopolis 1
Which glitch? All glitches in this level involving entering the ground require either Hyper Sonic or a bubble bounce, neither of which are available in the run. If you mean the zip at the start, only Tails and Knuckles can do it -- Sonic is too tall and too wide for it (believe me, I tried). If you mean getting on the top of the level: Sonic might be able to do it in two places: one on which he would lose time and one on which it would be moot. The former is at the start, right after Sonic gets the fire shield; after a few moving spiked crushers, Sonic is at the second highest spot in the level without a ceiling, with a slope where Tails could abuse the slope for extra height and fly high enough that Sonic might be able to get on the top. That would mean waiting for Tails, but even worse: Sonic can't move topside nowhere near as well as Hyper Sonic, and would lose time. The other spot is at the end of the level -- at the spot in the run where Sonic scrolls down the screen and Tails flies Sonic past an unbreakable wall, there is an upper level to which Tails could fly Sonic; from there, Sonic could get on top of the level, it being the highest spot all around. This would be a waste, because Hyper Sonic starts falling right after that... Anywhere other than those two spots and Sonic can't make it above the level -- even Hyper Sonic can barely make it with the aid of Tails, and he jumps far more than any other character. But nice tries :-)
Marzo Junior
Post subject: Movie published
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [1595] Genesis Sonic 3 & Knuckles by nitsuja, upthorn & marzojr in 32:05.52