Interesting. Going over the speedrun.
There are a lot of things that could be cleaned up with it but I think the basic strategy is sound.
Buying the Sunlights is helpful for reducing boss strength.
Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 15
Location: The Spiritual Realm
I managed to beat the SDA run a while back with an improved route.
Link to video
I've also managed to get a sub 2 hour run with the same route, but my internet went out in the middle of the stream =/.
Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 15
Location: The Spiritual Realm
No, I'm not a TASer. I understand a lot of what's happening under the hood with this game, but I much prefer RTA runs.
Mostly just posted the video so anyone else who's looking to TAS this has a better reference than an old SDA run.
Dragondarch:
Using the 12x refusals to manage reputation and getting Deneb early? Brilliant. Might be possible to keep your rep lower early on by switching out Opinion Leader. Not sure. Rescue cities with a 'moderate' or even 'negative liberator' to keep your rep low for when you get Deneb.
I'll say this right now. You are not aggressive enough with Tarots. You should be using a Tarot for every hit. You will save cycle time on the animations with early boss kills.
Whenever you buy Jokers, buy for 99. I like your use of boots to save time.
Always sunshine for every battle followed up with Tarots.
I would rush Muspelm. It gives you an undead for free - giving you the Lich. With high alignment/sunshines, this alone is enough to beat the game.
Fool/Death cards save you a ton of time. Cycle for the fools and farm them in the tarot screens. Yes, it's boring, but it saves you animation time.
I'm going to try giving it a shot to see if it's all viable. Great run.
I am working on a FIRESEAL TAS for Ogre Battle based on my RNG research and several human theory TASes I have for the FIRESEAL category on two platforms. I'm also the current RTA record holder for SNES FIRESEAL, with what I believe is the first ever fully manipulated run.
For those that don't know FIRESEAL is the shortest way to get one of the game's endings but it is sort of a secret extra mode. It's an excellent display of what I've learned about early game RNG, but the issue is where the timing would end for a TAS. In RTA, time ends on killing the boss, but there are several dialogue boxes after that, none of which are meaningful (i.e. pressing them alters nothing significant). I am unclear if timing would include them, or if the run would simply be considered over at that point.
It would save a ton of time if it weren't counted, but perhaps would be slightly less interesting for me personally, as a lot of my research was based on manipulations regarding the second Damage card is all.
EDIT: I think I have my answer - https://tasvideos.org/MovieRules
Seems to indicate that completeness would be defined as "to the credits". Neat. My work won't go to waste.
I joined to post in this thread. About time I do. I was looking for Ogre Battle videos on Niconico with the Japanese name オウガバトル and found a complete TAS from 2010 (!) by vibration (しんどう):https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11332780
Also posted on YouTube but with bad editing.
It's not an any% or 100% but rather the minimum needed to trigger the best ending, World. Recruit Tristan and Rauny, get Brunhild, Grail and Mysitc Armband and the 12 Zodiac Stones. Interestingly goes Ice Cloud who finishes Werewolf Sirius with Banish in the front row. Tarot card damage, besides Sun, scales off Opinion Leader's STR or INT. Weapon boosting doesn't count. Phantom Lord has highest INT, Ianuki/Samurai Master has highest STR, Ice Cloud is balanced with 2nd highest STR and INT and Thunder is the worst to use. Has highest AGI and HP growth.
Ice Cloud is also nice for 65 starting ALI when Posha needs 55+ at liberation and Sky Knights need 70+ to join. vibration pulls Hermit for the INT gain and +7 ALI doesn't hurt. Full Warren bonus card stat effects are here with note that PSX and Saturn have extra RNG. Can forgive Deneb before Diaspola to get +5 ALI (and -5 Reputation). Ianuki starts at 50 ALI, Thunder and Phantom Lord at 45 ALI and we know Phantom can't farm undead. TAS also has Ianuki kill Kapella.
I like how the Gryphon only gets 1 attack the entire game. Such a slow attack. No Tarot card is ever drawn at liberation since Joker pulls are faster. Can see on Sharom Border the second stage the 'wait and do nothing' strategy. By waiting for enemy units to deploy and pick their destination, you clear the stage faster! Also seen on vibration's Dragon's Haven run that Krayzar found as well and improved the battle strategy. No second unit for battling, Aisha is skipped, no Saradin or Princess, mainly Tristan + Debonair backrow spam.
What's also interesting is being able to copy paste the video comments into machine translator. vibration had a hard time dodging neutral encounters which I confirmed are boosted by unit leader's LUK. Says Trade Ticket/Anywhere Jack usage takes too much time so avoids.
vibration manipulates a Relic Sword for max +24 STR (but -16 INT) and 2x Notos since Notos has the highest sale price (63950 goth) of any buried treasure. One comment during the credits:
ノトスは乱数の範囲が「2A～2C」のときにのみ入手できます。
Notos are available only when the random number range is "2A-2C". 42, 43, 44
Notos odds are 3/256 or about 1 in 85. There are ~92 treasure possibilities in the pool with 256 (00-FF) numbers. So ~72 treasures have 3 numbers to be pulled and ~20 have 2. Says Magician is pulled with Joker with 00 to 0B, i.e. 12/256 that is slightly better than 1 in 22.
Responding to earlier strategy talk:
Bosses dodge Death, Fortune, Moon, Hierophant, Lovers and Sun Tarot, Pumpkin 50% HP attack, Vampyre Charm and Petrify. Their guards can be hit by Death, Hierophant, Lovers, Sun and all attacks. Gemini and Diablo dodge Fool and both Gemini have boss immunity. Exception: Fogel can be Charmed with Vampyre but good luck attacking before him. All bosses can, in fact, be stunned by Witch/Cerberus if caster INT is no more than ~50 points below the boss' since that's the 0% floor to hit. I stunned all 3 parts of Diablo as a test.
Yes, Gale is a physical attack which is why World can't stop it. Lich is possible, Debonair can recruit Mages and Saradin is a Mage. But Sorcerer achieves max dps in the front with Princess + Tristan/Debonair + Yushis in the back. Dragondarch does this in 100%. Lich has the best elemental resistance in the game but you'll lose too much time and take too much damage waiting for that third attack. Runs without an Undead Staff devolve him to Wizard to get 2 attacks. All Wizard-line classes get the same INT growth and all magic spells have the same base power, so no damage is lost.
Yes, you can get a level 8 Wyrm in Warren's Castle by manipulating a Chime from a neutral encounter kill. Sharom Border level 3 Hawk Man in ocean is convenient. Existing TAS only has the Gryphon attack once like I said so doesn't seem worthwhile.
Norn needs at least 55 Reputation if female Opinion Leader and 60 if male and can't have completed Shangrila where Debonair is locked up. Funny how no other character has a separate male/female requirement.
I disagree that Dragondarch isn't aggressive enough with Tarot. Most attacks such as Wizard magic are 180 frames and slow Ianuki is 403 frames. Fool is 533 frames reduced by preventing enemy attacks, INT cards are ~390 frames, STR Chariot is 787 frames and Hermit and Devil are even slower. Tarot also take time to pull with Joker or liberation + time to select in-battle. Given there are 22 Tarot cards, you don't pull enough Fools to go around in a non-TAS. Tarot damage besides Sun and Tower is nerfed the more enemies there are on the field. We're talking 5-20 points of damage to the boss in a team of 5. Tower beats Chariot when 4 or 5 are on the field but misses High and Low Sky. Diablo's Quake also misses High/Low Sky.
There is no need to Sunshine for every battle. Max stat reduction with 37 ALI Rashidi at noon is -12 points to STR, INT and AGI. Quite significant but weaker bosses aren't getting killed in 1 fewer attack with stat reduction that also affects your unit and takes 4000 goth and time to use. A few bosses are holy such as Hikash at 72 with 75 ALI Muses. Tarot card damage (besides Sun) varies with Opinion Leader's ALI by the same mechanic. If you're 0 ALI pure evil post-Galf, you might want to take some fights at midnight. At 50 ALI, max attack and Tarot damage are at 6am and 6pm, while max stat reduction is at midnight and noon.
I agree Musplem rush for Dream Crown (+Undead Ring) is viable in a non-TAS. I think Sheex's and 53done's Ianuki 100% runs go 2nd unit Princess since INT cards are already going to be weak with Ianuki at the endgame and the run no longer lives at the mercy of Joker RNG. TAS can manipulate Undead Staff, Ring and Dream Crown from killing neutral encounters, such as Ghost/Skeleton in Pogrom Forest or Hawk Man I mentioned in Sharom Border. Current theory from fireseal63, who discovered several things I already mentioned, is each non-boss unit kill has a 1/10 chance of dropping an item. This is irrespective of LUK. I found there are 32 possible item drops. Thus 1 in 320 for a desired consumable.
