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moozooh wrote:
Nach, I'm pretty sure I asked you to explain how the SMB movie is notable improvement. What I expected you to do was telling me how the new/different things in it corresponded to the description. Instead, you just stated it was a notable improvement and quoted the description. Lazy, unsatisfactory rhetorics like this disappoint me.
Perhaps you should read the discussion thread I linked to then, as the posts there explained what it did to achieve the highlighted portions of the description.
moozooh wrote:
For the record, I specifically watched the comparison video linked in the submission post. The difference between two versions is very subtle, and basically the only people who have spoken for improvements in entertainment are SMB TASers/fan(boy)s who watch every improvement anyway.
I don't watch every mere frame improvement, and I found the notable improvement flag on that run to be more striking than on other runs, as did many people in the thread, and I doubt every last one of them is a frame fanatic.
The changes were hardly subtle. There is a drastic difference in a run which just tries to achieve a record and a run which tries to show off as much as possible in the process.
Previous runs lacked cohesion in where they jumped, which on screen bonuses they collected, and so on. Many of them were done just for the heck of it.
In this run, the actual movements seem much more planned out, and there is a reason behind many of the different things done on screen, and can be appreciated by the end viewer.
moozooh wrote:
For the rest, it's "he made a bit different stylistic decisions", which happens in virtually every improvement out there. But something would be wrong if SMB didn't get special treatment for the most mundane stuff, I guess.
The decisions here weren't just a matter of style differences, they were the difference between random luck and precise planning, and that is the exact line between speedruns and TASs. I found previous SMB runs to be boring and technically non-impressive, the last one was head and shoulders above every run before it.
If you want to brush aside everything done as mere unimportant style, and the more precise TASing as something for Mario fanatics, then that is your choice. You're free to ignore the notable improvement flag.
moozooh wrote:
Again, who is the intended audience for this flag? Is it general audience who doesn't even see nuances so miniscule? Is it experienced community members who know what to expect of the TAS and need to be pointed towards something surprising specifically? Is it the author, whom we tell in this way that we distinctly recognize his contribution? I've yet to see an answer.
The flag was created for audience members who don't want to see the same movie over and over again with barely any changes made to it (think percentage of change). The flag indicates notable improvements throughout the run, such as changes of route and changes to the noticeable entertainment and precision shown.
As an example, Super Metroid, the first few minutes and the last few would basically be the same for every run. However, the bulk of the run in between can change drastically. Someone may end up submitting a run which is only a frame faster than the previous, but the run itself will take entirely new routes, and use different items, and even in areas they both cover, they're handled quite a bit differently. The time alone would not alert the audience that this change was notable, while the flag will.
And conversely, someone can submit a Super Metroid run which is a couple of frames faster than a previous run, where a bunch of rooms saved frames here and there, and to the untrained eye, not a single difference will stand out.
To put it differently, for a movie where most people would say they're watching the same movie again, it would not get the notable improvement flag.
Edit:
To highlight an example of non-notable stylistic changes, it would be where one decided to make Mario run across a stretch of area facing left instead of right.
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feos wrote:
For me, a 1 frame improvement for one of the most overtased games is quite notable.
Which is NOT the point of a notable improvement.
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moozooh wrote:
Nach wrote:
With this example, you've shown to utterly miss the point of the flag. [...] If you'd compare that movie with the previous, much more was changed than just a single frame. You would have no idea of knowing it by seeing the time alone.
You seem to be knowledgeable about the "point of the flag", so I'd like you to please explain that and the "much more" in the SMB run that constitutes notability according to the description. Maybe it makes sense, maybe it doesn't. Right now I wouldn't know because the description is too broad and vague.
These movies are notable improvements over their predecessors. These include massive improvements, brand new routes, new glitches, significantly improved entertainment throughout or something else fresh and surprising.
The intent of this distinction is to inform viewers of a significant change and not just minor optimizations. A significant distinction is not always obvious from looking at the movie times. When seeing this label on a movie, viewers who saw the prior movie know there is fresh play available. This will attract those who don't watch improvements that are merely frame optimizations.
Edit:
In case it wasn't obvious, I indicated the portions that best apply to the movie in question. You might want to see the last posts in its discussion thread as well. They remarked on how notable the improvement to the run is other than just saving a frame.
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With this example, you've shown to utterly miss the point of the flag. The description is correct and not vague (is it always labeled on each movie properly is another matter).
If you'd compare that movie with the previous, much more was changed than just a single frame. You would have no idea of knowing it by seeing the time alone.
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Fine.
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jlun2 wrote:
Nach wrote:
I was not aware of this being published. The vault isn't very noticeable.
While you're here, can you please un-obsolete the NDS Resident Evil run? I mentioned it in the SMW GBA TAS, but kinda forgotten about it until Mothrayas brought the SMW run up.
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DarkKobold: (...) this seems to offer nothing new over the SNES version. Rejecting.
adelikat: Unrejecting [for the vault]
adelikat: Unlike when this run was originally judged, ports of the game game to different consoles is not a factor when judging the run. Therefore, accepting for publication.
I was not aware of this being published. The vault isn't very noticeable.
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<Nach> feos: you are judging Spikestuff's run?
* Spikestuff hugs Nach
<Spikestuff> save me
* Spikestuff in fear
<feos> Nach: writing a decision right now
<Mothrayas> MURDEROUS REJECTION
<scrimpy> Mothrayas: Rejectious Murder
<Mothrayas> murderously rejecting murder
<feos> what does Nach think of this game?
<Spikestuff> ^
<feos> Mothrayas: I'm serious, what you think of the run?
<Mothrayas> on grounds of only having watched like 20 seconds of it, I don't think I can give a fair judgment to it yet
<feos> uh
<feos> Nach: did you leave?
<Spikestuff> master?
<Nach> feos: Nach thinks nothing of the game
<feos> great
<Mothrayas> [14:06:20] <Nach> feos: Nach thinks nothing of the game
<Mothrayas> my default interpretation: "Reject"
<feos> lol
<Spikestuff> Nach wanted someone to judge it though...
<feos> I wonder only about one thing
<Spikestuff> wat?
<feos> the tas and the game are controversal as hell
<Nach> When in doubt, reject
<-- Spikestuff has left this channel.
<Mothrayas> he took that quite well
<feos> and here goes...
<TASVideoAgent> Submission #3781: Spikestuff's PSX Bishi Bashi Special "Maximum Score" in 33:53.43 ACCEPTED by feos: http://tasvideos.org/3781S.html
<TASVideoAgent> Post edited by feos (WorkB: #3781: Spikestuff's PSX Bishi Bashi Special "Maximum Score" in 33:53.43): http://tasvideos.org/forum/p/334319#334319 [a:10]
<Nach> a shame he missed that
<Mothrayas> lol that he missed that
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jlun2 wrote:
is 2006-11-26 the birthdate of TASVideos, or 2003-12-06?
Depends if you're counting from the birth of the community within Bisqwit's site, or the start of a separate entity which focuses on all platforms.
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I personally would reject every single instance of Myst.
Even back when it first came out, all I saw was a slide show of pretty pictures that they somehow tried to slap some semblance of a game onto.
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Serious game is indeed vague.
When adelikat and I were creating that page, we came up with a couple of examples of games which were not serious. Such as the NES Sesame Street game, or Elmo's Fun with Numbers/Letters. Another example is Color a Dinosaur.
The principal being is this seriously a game people play? Or is it some educational "game" without serious gaming components? Perhaps only some group trivia thing which you can play in a group, but makes no sense to play against a computer, or where one person is controlling all the action.
adelikat and I want to allow records for TASs that actually mean something. We don't want TASs for random software where the TAS is pretty much meaningless. (I welcome your Microsoft Excel submissions this April 1)
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creaothceann wrote:
lsnes movie files should be convertable to BizHawk movie files (and vice versa), right?
That's quite problematic. lsnes has a sane input format, whereas BizHawk instead of having input frames decided to record input per video frames. While some videos can be converted, it's not a clean processes.
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I'd approve of a patch to unlock A-D, if it is ensured that the patch does that unlock and nothing more.
Edit:
Save state is worse, because it certainly does a whole lot more than just the unlock, and requires a bit of research to know what it does other than than the unlock, and how it affects the game.
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I'd really like to have the above questions answered McBobX, thanks.
Also, can more people comment what they think about this branch?
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Well, even if multiple people are working on it, they can combine their descriptions for a better one.
If you want to take your time, post in this thread you're working on one to avoid overlap.
The good news is, that since this thread went up, 6 movies got nice descriptions.
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We have quite a few [url=
http://tasvideos.org/ref.exe?page=TODO]movie pages[/url] which really need descriptions filled in, especially more in recent days with vault publications.
If you're an editor, please try to grab a few and fill them in.
If you'd like to help out but are not an editor but have contributed to the site, please apply to be an editor.
Thanks!
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The first post there is a trusted staff member verifying that the movie syncs with a different SRAM file he made himself.
All that's needed here is for someone to do the same thing.
What? No. That's not true at all. Grunt is hypothesizing that it might work because a partial run synced with a different memory card (which itself didn't have a verification run either). Regardless of his hypothesis, I spent quite a while working with the actual submitted run and its author. He was working on an attempted verification run, but it was NOT syncing against that run's memory cards. Perhaps a solution would have been found (lag frame here, lag frame there?) but the premature acceptance of the submission cut all of that investigation off.
Oh thanks for that info. You're absolutely right, this run really needs a full verification movie then.
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The first post there is a trusted staff member verifying that the movie syncs with a different SRAM file he made himself.
All that's needed here is for someone to do the same thing.
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STBM wrote:
Ilari wrote:
You can, and are encouraged to vote for multiple runs.
Seeing the choice, is it ok to vote for all of them ?
Sure, why not?
I myself voted for 6 of them.
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Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
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Did you find this movie entertaining? - I most certainly did!
...but not in the classical sense.
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That was some landslide.
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Dwedit wrote:
Is there a verification movie for the initial save data?
No.
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