Posts for Aglar

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Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
This is the updated run, I'm kindly asking someone to update the current attachment with this one: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1755818392/Sonic%20the%20Hedgehog%202%20%28JUE%29%20%5B%21%5DTAS_175160_Aglar.gmv The improvements can be seen in Aquatic Ruin 1 and 2, and in Wing Fortress.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Awesome job as always! I know you're "just checking the disassembly code" but it sure does not look trivial to find out anyway. The only place between the booster and the boss where a spin-dash could possibly save time (I'm not sure it would) would be just at the beginning of the platform before the front of the wing fortress (the one with 2 rings). The only way I could get an object to spawn in the right address at that place was to use your own breaking animations, however that means you first must reach a speed of ~1150 which takes too long time at that point in order to be worth it. Then at the boss, I still can't get the boss to get into that address but since I could do equally fast anyway (by standing on the blazing fire from the escape ship, lol) it doesn't matter. So I won't save more time from this, but it's always good to be sure:)
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Felipe wrote:
Any technical advice would be immediately accepted. However, I think we need more of that information here http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/Genesis/SonicTheHedgehog.html I know that we know much more than Sonic 2 of what is written there and I would like that in that place will be updated with more information.
That page already describes the physics very well and detailed. Then you "just" need to apply this knowledge to the fullest everywhere in the game. By offering you technical advice I meant that if you have questions regarding how to optimize a given situation or if you're wonding why you're losing time on something compared to my run, I can answer that.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Ok, I thought I would do a quick update of the run. Now it turns out this will not be the case, so I ask for this submission to be delayed for now.
Felipe wrote:
EDIT: I had not noticed, you have copied me a movement in SCZ, Aglar.
No, I did that zone without looking at any of the previous takes on it, except for the popular moves in the middle part that was used in the previous any% run.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
A new way to beat the Wing Fortress was found, check the Sonic 2 thread for reference. If no one finds a faster strategy to do this, I'll update the submission with that file (after adding the final zone).
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Actually, using that glitch will save time. Very nice find to tell the least. I wasn't able perform the glitch using the last booster - in which case it would save even more time. I also couldn't pull of the spin dash in the boss room at the same position that's shown in werster's video, but I found a way that was equally fast. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/788675394/Sonic%20the%20Hedgehog%202%20%28JUE%29%20WF_glitch.gmv marzojr, would you mind checking out why the glitch might not be possible to trigger on the last booster, and under what circumstances the spindash can be used in the boss room? :)
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
rog wrote:
I guess that means a lot of manipulation is going to be needed for the first boss.
Yeah, the boss fight in the latest wip was supposed to redone to get as much mana as in the wip Randil posted 2 years ago.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Wow, this takes me back! Like Randil says, this game is tough to TAS, at least at the level we aimed at. Looking through other runs that could be of help here are some runs that could be useful: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1797432258/Ironsword%20-%20Wizards%20%26%20Warriors%202%20%28U%29test.fcm - My first playthrough of the game, a complete testrun http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1938958735/Ironsword%20-%20Wizards%20%26%20Warriors%202%20%28U%29lvl3andforward.fcm - this one plays a little better than the run above from level 3 which the filename so gently tells. It doesn't complete the game though http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4827902/Ironsword%20-%20Wizards%20%26%20Warriors%202%20%28U%29faster5part1.fcm - this one plays the first part of level 5 faster than the run directly above this If I remember correctly we had planned out when we had to get maximum mana, infinite mana that is, in order to not lose any time later on. I think it had to be gotten before the second boss. The eagle that takes you to the clouds in the first level has a frame rule of hm - many frames - for when it's able to take you there. In our latest run we intentionally played the first part of the level quite slow, since we calculated that we wouldn't be able to catch another frame rule, to pick up more mana and got to the eagle just before the next frame rule. But now I wonder whether it might be possible improving it by another frame rule after all - if you would add the damage boost trick throughout that area. Can't remember how many frames that was needed for the previous frame rule but if one took a look into it, it should be quite easy check whether it would be possible or not.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Well, if you the jump up the platform I mentioned exactly like with the similar one later, then match my time all the way to the end - you'll end up with saving 11 more frames. There's no timed object in the way so it's definitely possible. Please ask if you need some technical advices.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Hope you know that WZ1 can be improved by jumping up the platform at frame 1286 in the same way as it's done for the platform at frame 2186.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Maybe my first double post ever. Anyway, I made some small changes to the first level which should yet be somewhat improvable. Try to get sub-21 for this level. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/271342287/Sonic%20The%20Hedgehog%202%20-%20Long%20Version%20WZ1.gmv
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Felipe wrote:
oooo BKN. 0:22::53 - > 0:21::37 -> -76 frames and even, i save 8 frames with a little extra movement at end the level. Thank you very much, Aglar. If you can improve other movements, I'll add you as the author of this movie. But you earned the reputation.
Well, my main reason for trying out that level was to help you improve as a TASer. It would help you the best if you restarted the run comparing your progress to the run I showed, thereby learning about the improvements, then apply that knowledge to all the successive levels in order to improve them as well.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
The precision overall can be improved by using some basic maneuvers the way they where done in the currectly published run. I, rather quickly, played through WZ1 using your route and improved your version by implementing those small adjustments and a little strat change at the end - still improvable I think. Make sure to play as tightly as possible, for example by cutting every corner with the highest possible speed and being only 1 sub-pixel step away from hitting it. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/985470977/Sonic%20The%20Hedgehog%202%20-%20Long%20Version%20WZ1.gmv
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
FuzZerd wrote:
oops yes I meant AR1 not MC1.
Ok, since I was at MC1 when I got that info from you I just made the ending in that act similar to how you explained it.
Zeupar wrote:
I hope you go for fastest in-game time on the second act of Casino Night Zone, unlike the authors of the latest run.
Actually I do it like in the previous run, it only wastes 10 frames and just as in the previous run I don't lose any time unit doing so. I thought it was ok since no one mentioned it in the thread for the previous run, except one who thought it was funny. Hopefully my other discoveries will make up for it to you:)
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
FuzZerd wrote:
would it be possible to keep the mc1 level ending the same (or similar) I'm sort of fond of that ending where tails is looking for sonic.
Definitely yes, since I'm running out of ideas of what to do at the end of the levels anyway. However, when looking at the end of MC1 in your run, it doesn't seem look the same as you're explaining it here. Maybe you meant a different level?
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
WST wrote:
LOL came to post it here and found it already posted :) Great job, guys… Does it have a chance to be accepted as improved run? Btw, you haven’t added the rest (with wonderful dancing to the music :) ). Here is the full gmv: http://averkov.web.id/files/for-tasvideos/fuzzerd,sonikkustar,upthorn,aglar,dmtm,qwerty-sonic2.gmv P.S.: very happy to see NaturelLorenzo’s contribution to this run :)
That one is extremely improvable. If you wait a couple of weeks, an even better run might show up in submission queue...
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Didn't really expect this to get submitted so I didn't pay as much attention to the forum thread about it as I would otherwise. The goal is ok I guess, with the main motivation to show off as much as possible of the levels. I would've preferred if you'd played through all levels though, taking all reachable rings in the levels you skipped. And to be honest, I really think you should've spent more time learning about the basics in TASing this game by studying the published any% run on this site. To someone with experience in TASing Sonic games (like me), this looks more like a test run than a final one. The movement precision gets better the further into the run you get which isn't really what should be the case with a TAS, everything should be of the best quality you can accomplish. I think that if you gave this another go you could improve this run by at least one minute. Some of the things to improve:
    As you obviously already know, in the beginning of the run you use a very inefficient way of breaking before doing a spin-dash. Later on you learn a better technique (on flat ground) but still lose 2 frames every for each break compared to the optimal way (check the published any% run for guidance). Optimize boss battles. I didn't pay full attention to all of them but there's no reason to lose any time on the bosses in CP2 and HT2 like you did. Make sure that all areas that are directly comparable between this and the any% are at least as fast as in the any%. The most obvious loss here is DEZ which plays under the same rules in both runs, yet you lose 29 frames (the correct time is 0:41::14). Better movement precision in general. Take the any% as reference and pratice until you can play as good as that and then apply that knowledge into all the situations you'll encounter when making your TAS. You don't have to start from inventing the wheel in a game that's already been taken way past the renaissance era. Use more spin-dashes, I can give examples if you like.
If your only reason to not do all this is that you don't have the time right now, wait until you have the time and continue then. Some runs on the site were done over a couple of years where the authors took many (and long) breaks instead of rushing with it, to make sure the will be of the best quality they can achieve. I don't say that I want you to cancel this submission, but I really hope you'll improve it whenever you can.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
It'd be nice if you, for each stage, not just mentioned the total amount of frames gained/lost but also gave the exact (or at least estimated) # of frames gainedlost/lost due the version differences and the # of frames gained/lost in the areas in both versions that are directly comparable. As it's presented now, to someone who hasn't followed your progress during the making of the run it's not obvious at all that it's a technical improvement to the previous run, even though I'm almost certain it is.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Blue Streak wrote:
I don't know if you guys planned it this way, but I love how the final hit on Robotnik allows the score tally to barely climb over 800,000! =D
Yup, that was planned from the very first enemy we defeated. It wasn't.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
I have no experience in the game itself, but decided find out whether this beats ECCO's run or not. And just as mtvf1 mentions, the final boss is defeated 627 frames earlier in ECCO's run while he choose to end the input a little later to trigger the ending sequence faster - thus the slightly longer input file. For the future you should know that it's fully fine to continuously compare your progress to the an earlier attempt of the run, to make sure that you don't get unnecessary frame losses throughout the run. Not that it would matter much for a run of this game in particular since it'd probably have a low chance of getting accepted anyway.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Are you using the jump predictor in marzojr's Lua HUD? That makes it way easier, and faster, to find when it's most appropriate to jump off a slope.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
marzojr wrote:
FuzZerd wrote:
should have mentioned this earlier but I think there's a one frame improvement to sy3 just before the zip possible (by standing up one frame earlier.) I guess I should have just posted here instead of trying to find you guys on mirc.
It isn't -- jumping one frame earlier gets Sonic stuck in the wall instead. And while it is possible to work with even that (since you can zip and jump, it is possible to use a trick to jump to the wall below), it ends up being 3 frames slower by the end of the zip.
I think he only meant standing up one frame earlier while still jumping at the same frame. And indeed, that made Sonic start the zip one frame faster. It seems like I also saved 2 more frames during the zip: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1746785798/Sonic%20The%20Hedgehog%20SYZ3zip.gmv
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
A tiny improvement has been found, so the publication of the run should wait until we've updated the current attachment.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
sack_bot wrote:
You get hurt only 4 times in the move. Can't you make it no damage?
I actually take damage 6 times. And I've always preferred damage boosts over waiting for something. It's a matter of opinion:)
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Expert player (3588)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
moozooh wrote:
funnyhair wrote:
Moozah
D'oh!
If I had a D'oh! everytime someone misspelled my username, I'd be Homer Simpson.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
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