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Samsara wrote:
I'd like to keep looking into something brought up in the publication thread:
deg222 wrote:
2) Assembling the Iron Sword skip - there's a way to skip the message half way through the song... although I've never been able to do it consistently and could never do it on my real runs. Maybe a button needs to be pressed on a certain frame? Anyways, there's an alternate consistent way of doing it, but you need to have a spell with you, so that's not relevant here.
deg222 wrote:
But as far as the Iron Sword skip, I felt like holding a direction before hand made a difference? I'm not sure, it never felt consistent.
This would be a solid 3-4 seconds of improvement if it's possible to get without the use of a spell, but it might still be an improvement regardless. The fact that holding a direction apparently makes a difference makes me believe that it's RNG-based, though given my limited knowledge of the game I wouldn't know where to start with that. I tried brute-forcing it by just holding up for varying lengths of time, but wasn't able to get anywhere with it.
How exactly does the spell system work? If there's another easily obtainable key along the route, could you figuratively pick up Fleet Foot, use it somewhere to save time, then use it further to open the magic menu and allow for the song skip? Or does the spell actually disappear and leave you with no magic?
The fleetfoot spell is a one time use spell. Once you use it it disappears. It lasts as long as you remain in the same area (don't enter any doors)
About this song skip, I have no idea. This game as several frame rules in place in various areas. It might be associated with one of those, in which case it wouldn't be RNG related at all, but truly I have no idea.
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There seems to be a minor difference in the DS version that might make it fatal to the run.
IN 0.56 of the published run, the fish is critical to the route with the speed boost you get from it. But in the DS version this fish is captured 2 frames early, robbing you of the critical speed you need to make the route work. I'll do a bit more testing, but I did a frame by frame comparison with the snes, and it is exactly the same up until the fish gets captured.
Might be back to the snes afterall!
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WIP of first 2 levels. It's going slower then I thought, but I'm skill learning the system so hopefully will speed up going forward.
Level 2 was tough, the published any % seemed to rely on a speed boost out of nowhere to line everything up, I couldn't recreate it.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/20607371199308230
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Since the current any % run syncs almost to the frame (aside from lag) I will be developing a new run for the DS version.
My plan is still the same.
1. resync any%
2. splice in sightseeing
3. optimize level by level
anyone interested in teaming up or have any advice on how to convert bk2 file inputs to dsm so I don't have to do it all by hand feel free to pm me.
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KennyMan666 wrote:
Y'know, if someone is going to make a new Umihara Kawase TAS, it might be an idea to switch to the DS port. It has a slightly smaller viewing area, but much faster loading times and less lag (and a better timer!).
Hmmm, are the physics faithfully ported? The TAS relies on some tricks that I could easily imagine not making over to the DS.
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http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/20562643658346167
Ok, so I am slowly trying to re-sync the umihara runs in bizhawk 1.9.1.
It hasn't been easy, so far I only have level 1, and as you can see it's a bit slower then the published run, almost certainly due to lag differences.
My plan here is:
1. re-sync the any% run
2. branch off of it with the remaining sightseeing run levels.
3. re-optimize one level at a time.
It seems RNG is not at issue here, so picking and choosing levels seems like the way to go.
If anyone wants to help out, I'd gladly team up. Once a complete working file is done, progress should be much better.
Also if anyone who actually knows what they are doing in bizhawk can offer any tips, I'd appreciate that too.
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Nach wrote:
The YouTube embeds in this thread can now be played back in 60 FPS on supported browsers.
Regarding DTC6, how does starting in March sound?
How do you guys feel about using lsnes for DTC6?
I think I would wait a few more months before taking another beating : )
I don't know anything about lsnes but could learn it.
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I was completely unaware something like this existed, pretty cool!
2^64 is a daunting space to check. Even if only 0.00001% gave you something that looked like valid machine code, just checking those cases to see which actually work is still daunting.
What is the machine code the first prize code generates? Can it be used as a guide to reason out what the resulting other machine code would be, for example the last instruction might be returning to a specific place in the rom?
A very interesting challenge, I will definitely be keeping track of it, good luck!
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Randil wrote:
Great job! You work very fast but manage to keep a good quality throughout the run. And thanks Samsara for the encode.
Some thoughts that popped up in my head while watching this (I will refer to the timings in the youtube video since I watched the encoded video). Some of this is nitpicking, but I thought I'd raise the points anyway:
*I think you can make a wall zip at the end of 1-3, zipping through the block on the left and wrapping to the right side of the screen and reaching the door a little bit faster.
*Maybe you can zip through the wall on the left on 2-1 at around 06:54 in the youtube video? I'm thinking that you turn around at this point, zip through the wall and pop out on the far right side of the screen. Might save a few frames maybe? I seem to remember testing this a while back, but I don't remember exactly...
*I think you can zip through the left wall at the store at 12:26, saving a few frames. At 18:13 you zip through the wall at the store (with the same layout), which is a little bit inconsistent.
*Same thought on the room around 12:31, I think you can zip through the left wall here too.
*13:47, aah, the platform pause trick :) It still makes me smile!
*This is a crazy idea, but at 17:52, would it be faster to drop down the pit in the middle of the room, zip through the wall here and pop out right on the door? Just a thought.
*Maybe a possible wall zip around 17:56? If you drop down to the lava and zip through the blocks to your left to reach the door.
Anyway, I will vote yes since this is a very nice improvement to the published run (and most of my points are nitpickings that don't account for much potential time lost). Awesome job, I think you are becoming a very competent TASer :) Maybe Little Nemo next? I think SDA has found some nice wall zipping glitches for that game that are absent in the published TAS.
I had tested some of these, as well as other little time savers. Unfortunately they seem to throw off 3-4 quite badly.
The 2-4 zips I thought would save time but things didn't work out. The swords in the later rooms end up in a different pattern and I throw away the time saved waiting for them since I can't take any additional hits.
Thanks for your comments, I think a V2 of this TAS might be possible, but first someone would need to figure out exactly how the level 3 boss works.
And next will be umihara kawase, expanding into snes should be fun.
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Hurray top 3!
Congrats to team 1, impressive.
I would like to thank Samsara and ars4326 for giving me the opportunity to team up with them in this contest, it was fun and I think our team was quite strong.
Thanks for hosting this Mothrayas. Game choice was good and I think the length of time was right for the game length.
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thommy3 wrote:
As you don't kill much enemies and bossfights are pretty fast, would it be possible to complete the game with no bow upgrades?
Interesting question, I admit I hadn't considered it before.
It takes roughly 20 seconds to get the 2 bow upgrades. I did a back of the envelope calculation of how much longer the bosses would take with no upgrades, and it comes out to about 17 seconds longer. So it seems plausible on the surface.
There are two difficulties I could see right away, health management and normal enemies in your way.
It is important in later levels to be able to kill stronger enemies in 1 hit to not lose time. Not being able to do so will cost several seconds I would guess.
In order to beat bosses quickly you have to be able to take more damage from them, meaning farming enough hearts to buy the health drinks in the dungeons. This would cost several more seconds, especially in world 3.
So the short answer is no, you can't get by without arrow upgrades.
I would say there is a slim but unlikely chance that 1 arrow upgrade is possible. I won't be the one to find out though : )
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Radiant wrote:
Question. Is this the kind of game where shooting the enemies just slows the run down? Because I thought the movie would look cooler if you'd kill more of the common mooks.
Indeed it is. Each enemy you shoot costs you 1-5 frames (depending on enemy value) when the score counts down at the end of the level. So only 1-2 and 2-1 shoot a lot of enemies to farm skill points to gain arrow upgrades, the other levels avoid them as much as possible.
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Hmmm maybe I am not explaining clearly.
What I mean to say is that the effect of increased speed / jump is needed in 3 sections of the last level, scaling the mountain , the crystal cave, and the summit. Fleetfoot the spell only lasts in one section once you use it, you are right it carries over if you don't use it though. So I would need 3 instances of the spell.
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Tangent wrote:
Out of curiosity, what's the loss for picking up the Fleetfoot spell? I thought it did the same thing as the Seven League Boots (thus negating the need to get them since Fleetfoot's literally in your way) but could be misremembering. Seems like it could save time regardless unless another key's that hard to come by or the speed gain's that minimal.
The seven league boots are permanent. The spell is only active for one area. Since you need the speed for all 3 areas of the last level, its not enough to get the spell. It's unfortunate that spells are so useless in this game. For example the geyser would dramatically change things except it can only be used in that single area in level 2.
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http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/20405881590876303
Ok I got the complete game in a WIP now. I have most of the improvements implemented, but there is still some work to do in level 3.
I'm pretty confident in level 1. A lot of compromises had to be worked into level 2 in terms of damage, of course overall there is substantial savings.
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Maybe you already know this, but the locations of the four bosses starts at 0220 and their HP starts at 00C8. Each boss has 128 HP. Each frame the game considers magic to be in contact with the boss takes away 4 HP. This is why critical shots are so valuable. Shooting at the correct frame can significantly increase damage per shot.
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http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/20341827831679020
Current WIP continuing from Randil's last WIP up to the start of 1-4
It is 68 frames ahead of the published run to this point.
Aside from better platforming, an extra jump in the middle of 1-2 loaded a platform earlier saving 10 frames.
I got some bad luck towards the end of 1-3 where one enemy that should only give me 100 points gave me 400 instead, not sure what is going on there. In one other spot, taking a more optimal jump saves more frames then killing the 300 point enemy, so that also increases the score but with a net gain overall.
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Oh competition : ))
who will win that coveted(?) last co-author spot!
I'm not sure I can think of another game that has a boss quite like this one. If someone can think of another similar example I would be interested to take a look.
