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They were saying that the score can only be seen when the game is paused, or something like that, which is where some of the confusion about what increased the score was coming from.
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TheAxeMan, can you also explain why this movie appears to be 10 seconds slower than the previous movie but isn't? I noticed Mister Epic added a note about this to the publication, but when I asked about it, he didn't know the reason.
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Wait, so is it 29 traps or 30? And the headache I got reading that second topic only reminded me why I don't take Twin Galaxies seriously.
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Personally I thought it was the walking around dungeons that got old, and it was nice to see a few of the monsters in each area even if they weren't fought. Say, do lava tiles advance the random number generator a different amount or something? I noticed Axe was taking slight detours just to step on even more of them, but I didn't see the purpose of having minimum health.
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Oh, I forgot to remind klmz about the CodeMasters logo skip. But by inserting a reset into klmz's movie, I was able to save 168 frames. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1127836726/superrobinhood-klmz.fm2 If anyone cares, I once did a longplay of the Atari ST version of Robin Hood: Legend Quest, so now you can see what Super Robin Hood looks like with the graphic style of Gods. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g3iLmKsoqU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BljAq-8RtEA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0w7KQWnD4U I later used savestates to play a perfect game, and it turns out the extra life heads will eventually wrap around from the top of the screen and flicker.
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All right, that should do it! http://www.box.net/shared/x7n0g1x8qg now completes the game. I pulled off a glitch in No.3 when I was trying to bounce to the left instead of the right. It turns out it is possible to get to the left from the trampoline if I keep leading Linus to the left, but if I don't lead him very far, then he can fall back down and think he's a whole screen over to the left. If he falls in the right spot, then I can still pick up the trampoline during that fall. So that saved about forty frames over bouncing to the left for the bridge and coming back for the trampoline. So tomorrow I'll go over those last few levels to make sure I can't think of any ways to improve them, then I'll make some more videos and write some notes. This is your last chance to tell me if I did anything wrong!
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I haven't given up yet! Well, I did give up on using the pause button to save time. Even though I started to save a few frames when I used pause instead of jumping in the windy area, by the time I finished I had somehow fallen 20 frames behind. But I did find a useful trick for the SCUMM areas: If I guide Linus off a ledge without leading him any further, then use Pick Up on the anti-gravity slide or trampoline he used to get up there, Linus will grab the item in mid-air, allowing the cursor to move again sooner. I improved No.2 and No.5 with this! http://www.box.net/shared/x7n0g1x8qg I also went ahead and did the platformer for No.6 already. And I discovered some more evidence of how rushed the Spanish translation was. Yeah, somehow the translation for "You've come to the right place sonny! Shady Lionel at your service!" got replaced by "Se pa how can you help me?", heh. Another thing, if you watch Linus Spacehead's Cosmic Crusade's demo in Spanish, it desyncs at the very end when the cursor ends up between the words for Give and Use and fails to select either, and so Linus doesn't get to spend his money. I also found more evidence that the PC version of Cosmic Crusade may have been the very first conversion of the game (or that it was simply rushed as well). The green Headcase that was removed from all other versions of Cosmic Spacehead is still there!
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Xkeeper wrote:
The fire bars in SMB1 just used a pre-built lookup table for the offsets to place the fireballs at. I doubt SMB3 would be much different.
Nah, I've compared the way the fire chains chunk along into 1/32nds of a circle, and rotodiscs don't do that. Their movement is much smoother, changing position every single frame.
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Today I discovered that, just as you can avoid using Denzil's elevator if you bring the rope, you can also skip GrandDizzy's elevator. What you do is unlock Dylan's elevator, go over and rope-swing to where Dylan's house key is, drop down to the right while the elevator's raised, and quickly drop through the hole underneath the elevator to the left, and you should land at GrandDizzy's house. This might save a trip somewhere.
AdmiralJonB wrote:
In case anybody didn't know, It's possible to go through the mine and get all the stars in one go, and if I remember correctly doing that gets you to the exit behind the irishman or something...
Yes you can get all the stars in one go, but then you end up at the final exit... which is where you need to be, as it contains a key item, the grave-digging spade. The exit just before that does take you to the right side of the leprechaun and is also the only way to reach the extra life game, but unless you're playing casually and need the extra life or its 1750 points, then I think it's not so useful because you won't get all the stars on the track anyway. The ride takes long enough that I don't think it's efficient to ride it a second time, but who knows? Maybe the second or third exit would be useful for transporting a lot of items up the beanstalk without having to venture through town or bring flippers! (While I'm thinking about the flippers, I want to say they are necessary for reaching some stars in Carber Bay, and helpful for crossing it without the aqualung, but they're not necessary for the pool under the bridge at the top of the mine; in this version everything's in reach of jumping there.)
AdmiralJonB wrote:
And not to mention all those mini-games the had like bubble dizzy (although I don't think you actually need to do that as you can jump to the island with the thing that makes you breath underwater, which could save some time)
Whoops, I guess you did already point this out. Then I'll just remind everyone that unless you're playing the first NES version, you still eventually need to enter the bubble trench to collect all its stars, so... Do that whenever you need to make another trip to Carber Bay. What might work is to take the dynamite and/or the handle to Zaks' castle off the pirate ship that way, drop the winch handle off at the beanstalk after you open the way there from the left, and go back to the left with the dynamite, match, and aqualung, possibly entering the mine through the second railway exit. Well, whatever works, I get the feeling it won't be worth carrying the umbrella when we've got all these objects to transport. I also wanted to mention a rumor I read somewhere that "it's only possible to jump onto the island when Dizzy's near death because damage makes him jump slightly higher." I did a quick check on Dizzy's jump height with frame advance, and it doesn't appear to be true at all. I confirmed that you can even jump to the island at full health before the water starts to damage Dizzy if you're quick enough. But you have to be careful to organize your items before you explore underwater, because in this version you don't get the grace period before drowning damage if you take the aqualung off in water. Ah, one final experiment tonight: I decided to see what would happen if I took the beach exit into the mine before using the machine wrench. It turns out that the second, third, and fourth elevators already work, and the machine really only runs the first elevator. This means that Dizzy can still explore the rest of the mine below that, although the first elevator won't give him a ride up, so he is forced to take the cart to leave. If this would make any sense for a speedrun route, then the wrench is skippable! And, huh, I can't get this to work in the second NES version. I'll have to spend some time figuring out exactly when that game lets you use the second mine exit as an entrance. Also I discovered in this Genesis version, if I leave Keldor Town to the right without having fed the charging beast, the barrels don't appear on the river for me to jump on, as if they didn't want me to even approach that thing from the left. So it appears the second money bag is only to give you access to Blackheart so you can escape via his ship.
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I'm checking back in to report some findings I made when I decided to play all the home computer ports of Robin Hood Legend Quest I could find. Well, all except Atari ST, as I haven't gotten Pasti to work with anything but the Union Demo so far, but I think that version has the same revamped graphics as the Amiga version that make the game look like a knock-off of Gods anyway. I have a strong suspicion that the ZX Spectrum version was the first port made, though, as it's called "The Amazing Adventures of Robin Hood" in-game, suggesting that CodeMasters went through TWO title changes before sticking with "Legend Quest". It's like how the original Super Robin Hood for the Amstrad CPC was only called "Robin Hood" in-game. It was a little interesting to see some of the changes made to accommodate the way the game engine was recreated on those computers, but I think it would get boring for everyone to try to list them all, and they're hardly worth checking out. You know how some Dizzy fans advise against playing Dizzy games on the NES? Well, I would advise against playing this Robin Hood on anything but the NES, as despite how clumsy the controls were then, the home computer versions are even worse! They tend to simplify the game design more than they expand on it, and there are more ways to get trapped into taking a hit because you can't handle the goofy controls just right. And I can't find any ports that have in-game music! Boring! I don't know why they thought we would be happy listening to an endless series of "Kapow"s. So what I really played them for was comparing secrets. I wanted to make sure that the secret passage to skip to the second half of the game was preserved in all the other releases, and it turns out it was! The Commodore 64 version even made it more convenient: Now the passage opens right there on the same floor, behind the key under the falling spike ball, and it skips you ahead past another room! This must have been done because the C64 has to load the upper floors separately, creating a point of no return here. I also found it useful to play the Spectrum and C64 versions because they actually have indications that you've touched a secret spot. (Had too many problems with the Amiga emulation to bother for long, and the CPC version is just a Lazy Spectrum Port.) And all the other secrets that still applied in the ports were still there. But then I found a secret spot on the ZX Spectrum that I had never known about! I found that same spot also made a sound on Commodore 64, and sure enough, when I watched the "secret passage" addresses 0660-0662 while jumping there in the NES version, there was a bit set in 0662. But I had no idea what had changed after touching the spot. So I started doing what I should have done before and played through the NES game again while watching the 0660 area for when I touched something that set a bit. Just by luck when I was jumping off the lift in the halfway point room, I saw 0662 change again, indicating a secret in the corner beside the ladder. And this same secret spot was there on Spectrum and 64, but it still took me a long time to figure out what had changed: It adds two more barrels so that if you haven't already gone after the shield up above, you can go back and climb on the barrels to help you shoot the guard in the back! After some repeated study I also finally noticed what jumping under the first gargoyle in the last room containing goblets did. The tunnel opens up more so that you can just run through rather than having to slide on your knees. I guess the change in convenience of that one part was too subtle for me to notice until today. And that's why I was able to reach the end of the game with all FFs for 0660-0662 after combing the rooms despite only knowing of 15 out of 17 secret passages. I'm pretty sure it's only 17, because the other 7 bits were filled in with regular visible keys. It could be they set bits there because 7 keys have passage-opening type effects rather than the usual lifts and doors. So download an updated map now! http://www.box.net/shared/j25kdf0f12
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Is there a good place to learn how to reproduce off-screen graphics though?
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Well, now that I've given it some thought, I suppose you could try swapping the music files after someone makes a TAS of the original setup and see if it still synchs, just for your own entertainment. I think I once did that with a graphics-only hack of an NES game.
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why would you do that
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Tompa wrote:
As I think that it should be stuff that are worth getting, stuff that will make your character stronger/better.
Yeh, but what makes a character "better" is a little too subjective. Some players don't like to pick up the magic bible because it just produces more flames for Link to stumble into, for instance.
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Yeah, and I believe there was one shard that required you to manipulate the right statue, the... whichever one was able to climb walls, because even the little bird couldn't fly high enough when I tried.
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And you got me hooked on Retsupurae videos again! Shame on you!
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Before I forget, I want to mention a neat little bug in Linus Spacehead. At the end of level 3, the "level complete" will appear if the birds knock Linus far enough to the left. This usually happens to me when Linus has been running on the top for a while and an oncoming bird hits him repeatedly, but recently I happened to get hit immediately while making the final jump, and that one hit was enough to reach that second exit. So, now, this is one of those tricks that's contingent on a bird just happening to be in the right place at the right time, but if you do luck out on it happening, it would save several seconds of auto-walking at the end of the level.
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I say that people won't bother to lie about it if it isn't SERIOUS BUSINESS.
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Yeah, thanks for keeping the trick secret so we could waste our time figuring it out again! Ah, no, I'm not really mad, but why didn't you mention it sooner?
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Well the YouTube videos say "in 1h 28m 49s"...
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To the mines! Blue diamond mines Red diamond mines Blue railway track Red railway track Some observations: When you chop the bridge over Silver Stream, it removes five logs. Four of them are replaced by sprites that hang down, but the middle one just disappears! The three floors of the mine interior are all the same length and match up on both edges, no shifting necessary, although I had to cheat to get into the wall to scroll the bottom floor all the way to the left. (Hacking Dizzy's position also revealed that no, there's nothing behind the dragon, don't get excited.) The rock formations fit together very nicely across all four floors. Can't say the same for those support beams that don't reach the ground! It's funny to notice that just before you reach the cymbals, you stand on a thin layer of rock directly over the dragon. I'm pretty certain that bat on the middle floor always starts a lot farther to the right in the red version than in the blue version; that coordinate's not so variable like its height. I don't know if I mentioned this before, but I can't figure out how to capture flying enemies' positions more accurately because there's some oscillating "flapping" motion that positions the graphic higher or lower than what the Y coordinates I find tell me, and when the coordinates are loaded, it seems as if the enemy gets to move in a random direction for a frame before those memory values show up, because they vary by a pixel or two either way. The blue version's elevator controls are unique for using a button toggle puzzle instead of an item, but did you know that the set of which switches are already activated is randomly generated whenever you enter the mine? In fact, it's possible to enter with all four switches on if you're lucky enough, so I think it's a lot faster to spend a bit of time manipulating your luck outside rather than pushing even a single button. There are only 16 possibilities, and waiting 1 frame changes what you get, so it should take less than a second. I noted before that collecting stars in the red version doesn't make enemies or other kinds of items disappear, but I don't know if I realized that it can make you unable to collect other stars. I think some stars will have to be collected during backtracking in that version just because they were too close to other ones and it would take too long to wait for them to reappear. The surfaces of the lava pools are more of those "load in tiles" animations, and the two tiles have their animations staggered so you can't really say which ones are supposed to match up together. I picked the Crystal Falls capture by which frame of the animation had the least color clash; for the lava, I think I went by what had the most symmetry, or what filled out the dimensions of the graphic, or what was... pretty? Oh well, it's all arbitrary. You know how I said you can just barely jump through the dragon's flames in the blue version? Well, I just found out that I can't do it in the red version. Even though I had Dizzy's higher speed, frame advance, and savestate abuse to work with, it appears that the dragon also breathes fire much faster, and I couldn't work out a safe opening. Maybe someone smarter than me can figure out a way, but this may end up being a blue-only sequence break. Also, the logic of whether the dragon lets you pass gets a little goofy if you play around with stealing the eggs and re-entering and setting them back down, but I don't think it's that important, so someone else can try to figure out all the rules too. In the mine cart ride, the trolls are given 1 of 3 palettes randomly, with randomness affected there by which tracks you've taken so far. Since I saw no reason to prefer one, I cycled through all three colors throughout the map, which may make it easier to remember what the last troll you saw on it was as you browse it. The second troll appears twice on the map because it will appear on whichever track you take, so you have to avoid it either way. I don't know why that wasn't done with any of the other trolls in the rest of the mini-game. I noticed that when the ground fissures form, the screen shakes, and it gets randomly displaced to the left by up to 3 pixels. (A rare case of multi-directional scrolling in this game!) So I took screenshots and added in as many of those 3 pixels on the right as I could manage. In the longer quakes, I saw a pattern: 192 pixels of a ground tile, then 48 pixels of plain black, just like the split between the play area and the status bar. If I copy that pattern across the right side, it matches up with all the other quake edges I caught, suggesting that there are 240-pixel-tall screens of this stuff repeated somewhere. I end up with only 24 pixels of black at the bottom, though, and the total height is 24 away from a multiple of 240, so maybe the game is starting 24 pixels away from the true bottom, but I don't know how to alter the scrolling safely, so I think it's good enough. I noticed the 16-bit versions of this game actually extend the graphics to over 320 pixels, and I think they shake the screen over to the right. Now, just because a fissure crosses a track on the map doesn't mean you can't take that track--remember I'm just recording their end states. All fissures are avoidable by staying at the top of the screen. In the blue version, one fissure lasts so long while you travel at such a high speed that it doesn't finish extending before it's scrolled off the screen, and the end of it appears 240 pixels up! The fissures were one thing that was changed in the red version. They're all shorter! In fact, almost all of them are shortened enough that they don't threaten Dizzy, and the one that still does cross a track I had a tough time getting killed by because its hit detection is buggy. I was a little disappointed that the game wimped out like that, but consider that there are now 20 stars to collect on the tracks, and you can understand that it would be unfair to punish the player for hanging back when they need to see which track contains the next star. (I looked at the Genesis map and noticed the falling boulders were the same way: Only a few boulders actually land on the track, and some of those are where trolls were anyway. Oh, and also some stars are on different tracks, so don't use one version's map for the other.) Another change is that while the blue version's cart speeds up multiple times, the red version only speeds up once near the end, only reaching the second speed from the blue version. So again it's a little easier, but helpful for making decisions about where to go for the stars next. The stars themselves actually make the ride easier the first time you play, as they show where a safe path must be. Those changes made it so I couldn't capture quite as much of the right edge, but on the bright side, the fact that the ride takes longer in the red version means that you get to hear a full loop of the music! Yay? I noticed about halfway through that the time when the cart ride speeds up seems to depend on Dizzy himself passing over a certain point, not just the screen scrolling to it, so you should note those points and make sure to hug the top of the screen then. How soon the speed-up begins can affect other subtle things like making the next troll appear one pixel higher than usual. The stars jiggle over their normal positions in these vertical scrollers because they seem to only catch up with the scrolling every other frame. It's interesting to note that although Dizzy's cart takes off to the left in the regular side-view area, the exits are progressively further to the right, so I like to imagine that his cart made a 180 just off-screen. When Dizzy exits the cart in the red version, he may slide a bit to the left from the momentum he had entering the cart, or to the right if you hit the backwards butterfly. Except, that doesn't happen for the third exit, so maybe they decided to neutralize Dizzy's momentum just in case it made him slip off. And for the fourth exit in both versions, Dizzy automatically rolls off to the right, but if you die before leaving Bridge Street, Dizzy will reappear standing normally at that exit. Nothing strange happens up there, though. The second exit is the most interesting. I found it was the red version that added the ability to re-enter through that exit and appear in front of the mine cart. If you get stranded there in the blue version, you have to die in order to re-appear at the mine cart, but you can do that in the red version too. It's a mysterious conditional thing; I think the way it works is that if you die before leaving Carber Bay and without holding the aqualung or the flippers, then you respawn in the mine. Otherwise it just uses your last entrance like usual, as either the flippers or aqualung will allow you to leave safely, and reaching higher ground shows that you were able to as well. And there's a weird bug where sometimes when you move the cart forward into an exit, Dizzy will act as if he crashed on it and die instead of exiting as he should. I know it last happened when I was testing the second exit in the red version, so don't hold a button into the exit when you're playing casually, I guess. When I was playing around in Carber Bay, I noticed a serious problem with the red version's controls. Whereas in the blue version your main issue is that jumps are often just barely reachable, in the red version you tend to have more problems with landing on short platforms because you have to deal with a slippy-slidey Dizzy who rolls too fast and slides right off those platforms. I found it was next to impossible to jump onto the sunken galleon the normal way, and it's suicide with the crabs running around. If you want to get on top of the ship without the flippers, I recommend getting onto the ledge to the right first and running off with a moderate amount of speed, and you should land right on the treasure chest. You know, that treasure chest that I think should have been replaced with a stepstool or something for those who never played Treasure Island Dizzy on a platform other than NES where they would have been forced to use an empty treasure chest that way. I guess it helps that it's labeled "empty", so they don't think they need a key to open it and get the treasure, but that just makes them think they have to put something into it then. It's really just there to fit the "ol' pirate ship" theme. Lately I watched a playthrough of Fantasy World Dizzy, and I found it interesting that almost all of its puzzles were repeated in some form in The Fantastic Adventures of Dizzy. This fits with the rumor that The Fantastic Adventures of Dizzy was originally going to be a port of Fantasy World Dizzy. The layout of the world is completely different, though, so I wonder if the programmers started by making sure all the puzzles worked before creating any of the lands Dizzy would roam. I noted before that Treasure Island Dizzy also had a lot of its puzzles revisited in Fantastic Dizzy as well as its item system to some degree, but I think this game even takes after the original Dizzy with its "Dodging small animals EVERYWHERE" style! So although it's a whole new world, Fantastic definitely took a "Dizzy's Greatest Hits" approach to the elements of the adventure.
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Now that's how you make use of super long jump speed.
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Oh, this must have been one of the things moved around recently, because I remember this being on the Tools menu, but now I find it on Options->Input->Customize All Commands, or Options->Input->Customize Common Hotkeys if you want a smaller set. Just select the command from the list on the left, select the key from the list on the right, and click Remove.
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Mister Epic, what happened to the sound in your videos? It falls way behind in the last few minutes of the first two parts, and it stops altogether half a minute into the third part.
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I don't know if that makes it much easier, seems more like it gives false hope to players instead of encouraging them to find the aqualung. But I guess it could be intentional, like "Dizzy gets better at holding his breath with practice!" ...except on the last life... Or maybe a bit just got shifted over and didn't get shifted back for a while.
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