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Bisqwit: Does that list mention the same files, or only with the same file name? I thought the instructions mentioned that the most practical way of renewing a screenshot was to keep the same filename... at he full arkanoid movie for instance, there is a new screenshot (although it has the same filename).
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DK64_MASTER wrote:
the input was cool too, but nothing spectacular ;)
Yeah, I know... there wasn't any music to make it correlate with, and I didn't use any fancy programs. Just thought I'd stress that it was there, so people wouldn't be bored to death by the wait at the start.
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zvsp wrote:
> Baxter
Nice to meet you. I'm zvsp507 in YouTube.
I'm glad for you to improve my PanePon, great job.
Ah, nice to meet you too. Cool that you are here now too.
I wouldn't have even known about that strategy for PanelPon without your youtube movie. It was pretty good already, so I was lucky to improve it a bit in the end.
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Nice movie, voting yes.
I was actually also planning on improving Acmlm's movie some time. I knew it was possible to do it in 5 'rounds' like you did Acmlm did it in 6 rounds). It should theoretically also be possible to do it in 4 rounds though... but this would be extremely hard IF it would work out. Anyway, good job :)
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Thank you all for the nice comment :)
Lord Tom wrote:
I agree with Baxter that 'variety' is a bogus reason for accepting a future 'shortest time, any items used' run that employs the laser. But even if laser is a misnomer anyways (plasma cannon?), it has its irrational attraction. If interesting firing patterns/paddle movements could be used, it might even be entertaining...I guess we'll have to wait & see if someone actually makes a run using it to its fullest.
What I don't really understand is that people are somehow fixed on seeing Laser in this game. From what I understand, the powerups in Arkanoid 2 (on NES) and Arkanoid Doh it Again (on SNES) don't have items that are manipulatable that easy. This means a run with using only 1 type of powerup is not even really possible (or you would have to de large parts without any powerup). So a run on either of these games which just aimed for fastest time, and used all powerups would be logical. The good thing about a game like Arkanoid Doh it again would be too that also other powerups, besides laser and multiball would be able to save time, for instance the ball that just travels through all blocks, without bouncing on them. I think these games would be a lot more suitable for a TAS which used all powerups, instead of a third movie of this game, where Laser would be overused.
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It's just that 100% start menu is the only thing that doesn't make the goal completely arbitrary to me. If each item is judged individually, you will run into disagreement no matter what. The list snorlax posted for instance is strange to me. You do have to get the bomb upgrades, which is essentially "can keep more bombs". But you don't need to have a potion, which is essentially "can keep more health". In that sense, the potion is no different than a ring.
Tompa wrote:
It IS obvious what should be counted as 100% in this game. It's just that some people are just too stupid to get it.
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I agree that 100% means having a complete start menu when you reach Zelda. This means all items, all heartscontainers and all hearts filled. All 16 bombs, all 255 rupees (yes, you can and must go back after fighting Ganon). I don't think you can get a red potion without taking the map to the old lady. If you pick the red potion instead of a heartcontainer, you can't get all heart containers anymore, so you will have to get the map and stuff. Even though it's not on the item screen, I do think a big shield should also be collected for 100%.
I don't think that stuff that gets replaced or isn't visible should be collected. This means items as white sword (wooden sword :P), wooden boomerang, dungeon maps, compasses and stuff aren't needed. I don't know who mentioned that everything in the overworld should be burned, and every cave bombed... but I don't even remotely see for what purpose this should be done.
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I'm not quite sure if I'm the right person to say anything about this, since I'm the author or the current movie... I'll share what I think anyway (do note that it's just my thoughts, don't need to be the facts).
At this point, I'm working with Morrison on a second quest run of this game. Main reasons are that this run is far more improvable, it even being a famtasia run. There is not much wrong with the current first quest run, except of the lack of knowledge about the glitch, which is why it was only used to go through blocks in the dungeons, instead of also going through the sides of the screen in the overworld. Because of this, the run is obviously in need of an improvement some time.
I've always wanted to make a new version, when it was known that the movie I made with Phil could be improved. I'm currently TASing the second quest with Morrison, but from what I got, he is also very interested in TASing the first quest. Phil would like also to be a co-auther on a new version very much. RyanM561 seems to be very interested in doing a first quest run also, but it seems to me that he would prefer not doing that alone. Phil, Morrison and I are busy with other runs at the time for a fact. I don't know about RyanM561, but it seems like he wants to wait untill others start TASing it and join in. So what I get from this, is that there won't be any work done an the actual TAS untill at least 2008 (what will happen then, I don't know, since so many people want to make the same movie).
Having said that, I'll respond to DaShiznawz. I'll state out front, I do not want to discourage you in ANY way.
DaShiznawz wrote:
I really want to do a run of a non n64 game for a change and see if I can make it optimized and published.
I think the Ocarina of Time run wasn't rejected because it wasn't faster than the currently published run (since it was obviously), it was rejected because the run wasn't as optimized as the currently published TAS. I can say for a fact that the current LoZ run is a LOT more optimized than the current OoT TAS is. I think it's a lot harder to make LoZ more optimized than the current run, than it is to make OoT more optimized than the current run (even though the TASing of a run is obviously more tedious for N64... note that I'm only comparing relative to the current run). The glitch will provide a buffer, to make the run possibly faster than the current run for LoZ, even if it's less accurate. This might produce a similar situation as with OoT.
DaShiznawz wrote:
If you would like me to try could you explain how or where to find out how to do the glitch that will make the time faster than the current published run. If a route is already been made you could show me. If not I can come up with one.
I would suggest just looked frame by frame at the input of a movie which performs the glitch (I would suggest the Outlands TAS, since the glitch is performed there many times). Just replicate it, and see how it works. That shouldn't take more than 5 minutes, and you will know how it works better than having read a long explanation.
DaShiznawz wrote:
Again I understand that someone is gonna do this in 2008 but I want to try a non n64 game if you guys don't want me to do this do you know any games I could try I want one where the final run will be under 20min. I know that seems short but after submitting
First of all, a first quest run will definately not go under 20 minutes. Maybe it will go under 23 minutes, but I don't think it will even go under 22 minutes. I'm not saying I don't want you to do it... but I don't think it would be easier than OoT in respect to making it more optimized than the current run. So I don't really know if this is the game you are looking for. I tried btw to find a good suggestion for a game, but nothing comes to mind right now.
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Banarak wrote:
Side note : on round 33, it takes a few colored bricks before the powerup for 3-ball even starts coming down. You couldn't manipluate it to be on one of the first bricks? Or was it just longer overall?
Only particular blocks are able to give powerups. These blocks will ALWAYS give you powerups. Others will never give you powerups. So in level 33, I had to clear a few blocks first, to get to a blocks which gave me a powerup. You won't get a powerup though, if either another powerup is falling down, or if more than 1 ball is on the screen. This is also why no other powerup can be combined with the 3-ball powerup. Which powerup you get from the block that gives you the powerup can be manipulated by the paddle position.
I'm glad that nearly everyone likes the movie :)
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Alden wrote:
do these smart people owe it to the rest of the world to try and fix things for everyone?
Dear Fabian, I'll ask a question related to this quote.
Doesn't every person think of themselves as being either smart, or 'right'? People of two completely opposite opinions could say they are 100% sure they are right about something, and think the other isn't smart enough to understand. You mostly think per definition that you are right, since otherwise you would change your opinion (right?). So how do you truly know that you are either 'smart' or 'right' about something?
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FreshFeeling wrote:
If I had one minor complaint it would be that the paddle/ship/player/thing moves occasionally when no balls are nearby or approaching - it looks as if the game is controlled by a normal player who is unsure of his immediate movements.
and Lord Tom wrote:
I initially thought the occasional paddle wiggles were to manipulate capsules into not appearing, but you said they don't appear anyway with three balls on-screen. Manipulating enemy movement?
A valid point. Sometimes, it was indeed to manipulate where enemies appeared. But a lot of the time, I also moved where it wasn't really needed. I had a hard time figuring out what was more entertaining (to me)... moving a little, moving a lot, wobbling, and so on. In the end, I decided that moving a little was probably the best option. Not moving at all sometimes even seems like the input has stopped, and I didn't like it that much, so I tried to move a little, and also make short pauses. I tried to make the movement somewhat entertaining, but I'm aware that some people like different things than others.
Upthorn wrote:
I actually find Genisto's movie more entertaining -- it uses twice as wide a variety of powerups, it also does a variety of cool things like making sure to kill every alien on certain levels, and beating one level in between missing the ball and losing a life.
A wide variety of powerups? You mean using Laser three times, and using the sticky ball once where it isn't needed? I don't know what you are thinking... but 32 out of 36 levels in this run are played with the same weapons as Genisto did in his run, and you claim the 3-ball powerup is overused in this run, while Genisto uses a wide variety of powerups? Who are you kidding?
Killing every enemy on certain levels? I also kill every enemy on certain levels. This was however neither Genisto's goal, nor it was mine, since it seems quite trivial. If you kill one enemy, the next one will appear moments later.
Since most people chose for a run that was in full control and didn't lose a single ball, I didn't semi lose a ball, right before the end. This wasn't a goal though, and I didn't lose any time by not doing it. Although this point, I could understand.
So, what are you suggesting for goals? A run that uses more powerups than laser and 3-ball powerup with logical goals can't be formed. And you can't possible be serious about setting a goal as "kills all enemies at the end of the level, and finishes the level before they reappear". How can something with clear goals obsolete Genisto's movie? I hope you realize that using the Laser tool assisted looks quite similar to using laser in real time. And also that you realize, that I picked my goals in a way that the Arkanoid movie would be as similar as possible to your beloved Genisto's movie. Going for speed only and using laser all the time will only make the run a lot more different than Genisto's, and most certainly not in a good way.
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AKA wrote:
I think the problem is that Genisto's movie was made during a different era. It was made on an obselete emulator i.e. Famtasia and it only had very basic functions compared to what FCEU has Today. Also feats like juggling 3 balls at once were a lot more impressive given that fact that it was made using slow down. [URL=http://tasvideos.org/66M.html]
just read the current description. [/URL] With frame advance its not quite so impressive to see things like that nowadays, there are much more impressive tool assisted things to see now that the movie base has generally expanded and been improved on Megaman_1 and S3+K come to mind the most.
I don't really see a problem that Genisto's movie was made in a different era. He made a truly great movie, that I watched MANY times. Saying it was more difficult to juggle three balls... well, I'm not sure. Of course the tools are a lot more advance these days, but the principle was the same... if you lose a ball on famtasia, you just press the rerecord button. Making sure no balls are lost is not more difficult on famtasia, it's just that using famtasia is more tedious.
Besides, this run doesn't just try to be impressive by keeping 3 balls in the game. I could have done that with a lot less rerecords. The thing which I would like to impress people more by, is how fast these levels can be cleared with these three balls... if enough planning and testing is performed. I'm not trying to downgrade Genisto even a bit... but I think it's fair to say that, even though he used famtasia, I spent a lot more time on the movie. So if you say that it'ss not quite so impressive to see things like that nowadays... I'm sorry, but I can't help to feel a little offended.
Btw, are you gonna refer to Megaman 1 and S3+K every @#$ing time someone submits a movie now?
AKA wrote:
but I would accept a run that trully goes for the fastest completion via using the lasers to obselete this one.
I truly hope (and to be honest, also think actually) that if someone submitted a movie using laser most of the time that it wouldn't even get a good enough response to obsolete Genisto's movie. It's very obvious that what made Arkanoid so good, and possibly even suitable for TASing is the use of three balls. Like I said to DrJones, if there was a logical goal where is would be used once or twice, then that MIGHT be good (although it's also interesting to see how to take on the levels that aren't normally played with three balls). There is however not such a logical goal, and merely doing a warpless run would destroy the very things that makes it good.
I'm not really trying to convince you, or myself with any of this. I already know it, and I know you will never get it. But maybe someone actually thought that what you said made sense.
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DrJones wrote:
and that the rest of powerups are skipped, which makes this run very repetitive.
Essentially, the only powerup that is skipped is the laser, and as you pointed out yourself, if the laser wasn't skipped, then it would be a run featuring the laser very often.
I don't know which other powerups you would consider to be possible candidates for entertainment though, there is "slowdown", "bigger paddle" and "sticky ball" (and "1 extra life" and "warp"). Slowdown would obviously only hurt the run. Bigger paddle also isn't of any use, and can't provide entertainment. "sticky ball" also doesn't help at all. A big note that should be made is that if there is more than 1 ball in the game, you won't get any powerups. This means it is not possible to combine 3 balls with a bigger board, or with laser.
DrJones wrote:
Aiming for entertainment first, and speed when it doesn't go against the first goal would have worked better, and wouldn't have required imposing weird restrictions.
How do you plan to do this? How can someone compete with a movie, if it aims for entertainment. It's very subjective. If there was a better non-weird restriction (and only using the 3-ball powerup IS a non-weird restriction), I would have picked that. But this made more sense to me, and to all others who commented in the arkanoid thread. A restriction like "only uses laser on level 29", THAT would be a weird restriction.
DrJones wrote:
Levels 3 and 11 were boring, and I would have prefered if they were done by laser to end them sooner.
Level 3 is a level where nearly all blocks are 'behind' golden blocks, which can't be destroyed. Laser would have been a terrible choice for this level, and it would have been a lot slower.
Level 11 is a level with only grey blocks. No powerups at all can be obtained, so neither laser, nor the 3-ball powerup are used.
Quite funny by the way that you name level 3 and level 11, these are two of the levels that I think worked out the best in the entire run.
DrJones wrote:
Other power-ups would make it look more entertaining. Shrinking the pad with multi-ball without losing any of them would have been amazing, but this run missed the opportunity.
Well, yeah... I can't use powerups that aren't present in the game. Shrinking the paddle can only be done in Arkanoid 2. (To be honest, I don't know if it would be impressive to watch a TAS be done with a shrinked paddle. In real time, it would be very impressive. At a TAS, you already know the ball won't be lost, and the blocks would only be cleared slower with such a powerup).
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I really appreciate your effort, but after giving it more thought, I'm gonna vote no.
I think the goal is less interesting than Hero's movie, and the total length is longer. Therefor I enjoy Hero's movie more and it's faster... so I don't think this movie should obsolete Hero's movie.
IF people who know more about the game than I do think this run is significantly different to warrant its own category, AND they can convince the people who make decisions that this should be published alongside Hero's movie, I would support that.
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Dear Bisqwit, I'll ask my question here, since it's the only place where you'll answer it appearantly (IRC ísn't good enough anymore).
(1) How can you justify locking TheEnglishMan's "Ask me something"-topic?
If the reason is "we already have enough of those", I think it's a really bad reason. It was ok when you made the same topic as Fabian, it was ok when Upthorn made the same topic, it was ok when Omni made the same topic. These "ask me anything"-topics put someone in the center of attention for no particular reason... and I could see that others (like TheEnglishMan) also want their own "ask me something"-topic to also get some attention. Yet, while he did nothing different than you, Upthorn or Omni (creating a duplicate topic), his was locked and the others were not.
(2) How about locking all "Ask me something"-topics?
If there are questions for a particular person, a private message will work just as well. Maybe compiling a list of people who enjoy getting tons of useless questions in their inbox could be compiled (just a suggestion).
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DaShiznawz wrote:
Do you guys think I ever have a chance of getting a published run?
I'm sure of it! Make sure you post wips every now and then, and I'm sure people will be able to tell how you are doing. For me personally, the .m64 files are too much of a hassle to watch, but if someone like bkDJ encodes something, I'll watch it.
Didn't GuanoBowl release a wip? Maybe you can compare how you are standing up to that.
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Warp wrote:
Does it bother you that you have to answer all these semi-taunting questions about your faith?
I know what taunting is, but to be sure, I looked it up:
taunt·ed, taunt·ing, taunts
To reproach in a mocking, insulting, or contemptuous manner.
I'm honestly not sure in what way you think the questions asked are taunting...
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Bisqwit wrote:
I don't think that a person who does not believe in "afterlife" will experience a soothing afterlife at all.
What is so special about believing? Wouldn't it be more important how you lived your life, and what choices you made?
Will people from a different religion, such as Judaism or Islam, have a soothing afterlife? And what about Deists? What about children who die young, or people who never came in contact with ideas about afterlife?
Bisqwit wrote:
the most profound being when I realized that I have a soul and that what it is
When does the soul attach itself to a body?
Is there a difference between the soul of a male and a female?
Do animals have a soul?
Do you believe in alien life? Do they have souls?
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Phil wrote:
I hope you didn't voted yes in the poll... because it doesn't look like that you like watching that movie.
Well... he said he voted yes, and I don't really see why he shouldn't. As said in the topic which questions the poll question, people don't really directly answer the question of the poll... and for a good reason. Why would someone vote no on a movie which he likes more than the currently published movie?
