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L4yer wrote:
TAS only means a good example of great movement/strategy/luck, not perfection.
Of course, I disagree (and probably nearly everyone will). What you discribe sounds to me more like a segmented run.
andrewg wrote:
I thought the only reason for TAS'd videos was perfection...
+
TSA wrote:
No offense, but TAS serve only as research tools, to show what is possible. If you want entertainment...
I think the goal/reason for a TAS is perfection aswell as entertainment. Only perfection won't cut it. A lot of movies are being rejected because of poor game choice. If the only reason/goal for a TAS was perfection, those would have been accepted. In fact, the at the rating system the entertainment score for a movie decides 2/3 of the final score, while the technical score only gives 1/3 of the final score.
TSA: Don't you mean emulators can serve as a research tool? (It would be kinda weird to me if the actual TAS would serve as a research tool.)
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Well, yeah... I'd centainly like one. I think the run will be better viewable, and it's probably convenient while making the TAS. However, I'm not able to make a camhack.
I'm going on vacation. I'll continue working on this run at the start of September.
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hmz, -10 points for not being very consistent in your opinion with using left+right. Let me get this straight; it's ok if it's done only a few times? Or if it's not noticable for the viewer?
What happened to:
hopper wrote:
My motto is WWDD (What Would Data Do?). And that doesn't mean, What Would Data Do If He Took A Screwdriver And Opened Up His Controller So That He Could Press Left And Right At The Same Time? (WWDDIHTASAOUHCSTHCPLARATST).
?
I see using left+right in a tas as something simular as using frame advance; it's an option an emulator provides to make a tas. Just like screwing open your controller at a normal speedrun, using a turbo controller is also banned at normal speedruns.
I think, if a run looks like "not sure if it is a TAS of not", it shouldn't even be accepted to this site. Why would anyone want to watch a TAS of something when "It looks achievable by skill alone"? (Why not watch the normal speedrun then?) (Btw, I don't think this Ninja Gaiden 2 run looks achievable by skill alone.)
I think a TAS should be aiming for perfection, aswell as entertainment. The more different a TAS looks from a normal speedrun, the more suitable it is for TASing.
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Not liking the use of left+right, or not being impressed by the way the movie turned out is your opinion... I won't argue with that.
I do think you comparing this with the zelda ALttP 3:48 is not right. Inspite of what you might think, this improvement isn't based on the glitch (or left+right). The main improvement came from luck manipulation using ram adresses, not the warping.
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First track (5 laps) complete :)
WIP
First lap is by far the slowest, since I can't use my weapon here. Second lap is a lot faster, since I can use it here... speed increases a lot. At the third lap my speed increases a little more. At the fourth lap, I reach the speed limit, when going faster then 16834, you move backwards instead of forwards. At the fifth lap, I try to stay as close to this speed limit as possible. Unfortunately, the second lap time didn't register :S
Note that no glitches, cheats or whatever are used at this movie. The only thing this movie does is optimizing the speed (ram adresses come in handy).
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Hmz, I found out there is sort of a maximum to the speed. If you go above a speed of 17000 (~2700 is Vinnie's normal speed, when holding down B the entire time, with a fully upgraded motor) stuff will happen that will slow you down. You'll hit some invisible wall, or you just get placed back a little.
It was pretty hard to find this, since the vehicle is off-screen most of the time, but I managed to make a movie which shows this:
MovieUse frame advance to watch the movie The movie shows how the Bike is being placed back a few times, after speeding up.
No worries though; I reached this speed in the fourth lap, so my estimate is that each lap will be faster than the one before that. I'm currently working on the fourth lap, I'll post a wip when the first track (5 laps) are complete.
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Here is a wip of the first two laps: WIP
I think the first lap is really done. There is a moment in the lap which looks a little slow, but it enables the rest of the lap to be faster (too hard to completely explain).
I'm not done with the second lap yet, I still have a couple of things to test... just wanted to share this wip now.
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Grambo wrote:
With every speed upgrade, the ships velocity increases
You'd be suprised by the amount of upgrades needed for maximum speed. Morimoto reaches maximum speed even before the vulcano scene. All the upgrades he takes after that don't affect his speed.
It's quite a good illusion actually, since the sound of the upgrade really makes you believe the ship is moving faster, even though he reached maximum speed long ago :)
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FrostyTheDragon wrote:
May I ask what prompted the selection of Vinnie, the character with the lowest top speed of all?
Top speed doesn't matter that much. I am TASing using RAM adresses, and it seems that the top speed is the speed you'll attain by holding B for a long time. If you're speed is below top speed, it will rise to top speed eventually, if you're speed is above top speed, it will go down to top speed eventually (it's a little more complicated, but anyway). When I TAS, I'll always be way above the highest top speed of an character, so the top speed doesn't really matter.
I picked Vinnie mainly because his attack gives you extra speed, and it also allows you to take corners in the air, which is quite essential.
FrostyTheDragon wrote:
That preview is insane. Really insane.
Everyone should watch it. I've only heared people liking it, also people who didn't know the game.
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As long as the dino enters before the music stops, it doesn't matter. There are levels where you can fly really high, and where the height does matter, but I avoided flying too high (dropping altitude to make it look more fluent would lose time however).
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As the author of this thread already mentioned; this game is extremely overlooked. Since I recently finished two movies from my list, I can add a new one to it. ;)
This game has 6 championchips, consisting of 5 tracks each (5 laps to complete one track).
Doing all 30 tracks would take WAY too much time, since tasing a racing game takes a lot of time. I did a test, playing at 50% speed, with rerecords when making errors and the movie length was 1 hour and 10 minutes. If it was properly TASed, the movie might be ~40 minutes (I'm just guessing), but this would be way too long for watching a racing game (even if it's as cool as this one).
I figured I'd do one track, like the F-zero movie... but the movie wouldn't have a good ending, and it would have to start from a rerecord. Also, the movie would be way too short (~1 minute).
Doing one championship would mean doing 5 tracks. The movie would have a good length for a racing game. It also means I could start a movie from power on, since I could enter a password to get to a certain championship. I think the best championship to chose is the sixth championship at the 'super hard' mode. The tracks are the most complex, which should make them quite suitable. After this sixth championship at 'super hard' you will also see the game ending. Using a password to enter the sixth championship means you'll take the money and machine parts with you which you obtained from the previous 5 championships. I plan on doing this TAS with Vinnie with the 'motor-parts' and 'weapon-parts' fully upgraded.
JXQ mentioned some people might have a problem with me having an upgraded vehicle when doing the TAS. Some people might see it as making it easier, beating the game this way. It would indeed make it easier when playing normally, but when TASing, it's not hard to beat this last championship anyway, even on 'super hard'. It wouldn't make the TASing itself easier or harder, but it would make the end result a lot better (since the racing will be faster). Please check the 'Preview' at the bottom of the game before judging about this (I used upgraded weapon parts at that movie).
I would really like to hear it, if people have problems with already having the vehicle upgraded (although I wouldn't make the TAS without these upgrades).
Please let me know what you think about a Biker Mice from Mars TAS, completing the last (sixth) championship with Vinnie, reached by entering a password at the start of the game, at the 'super hard' level, with a vehicle which already has the motor, and the weapon upgraded.
======================================================
I wanted to make a single track movie at some point. I completed the first two laps of a track I found suitable for TASing. I'll use this wip as a
PreviewIf you don't know this game, I would really encourage you to watch this preview, it might get you interested in this TASPlease note that this track from the 'Preview' won't be in the TAS, since it's a track from a different championship.
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Guybrush wrote:
This game is just too linear for TASing, I found myself fast forwarding very soon. I'm sorry but I have to vote no.
I agree, the game is very linear. I wouldn't have picked this game as a to TAS if I hadn't started it a long time ago and promised I would finish it sometime (Sami's run wouldn't have been rejected otherwise). Ever since I made the Mega Man 5 TAS, I decided to make movies that might take a little more time to make but with a result that had the potential to really impress (some) people. This movie clearly doesn't fall into that cathegory.
However, I don't think the game is too linear. There are a lots of possible routes at each world, you can chose several dinosaurs, you have to make choices on whether to take a piece of fruit, or slow down to avoid it, there are some interesting boss battles, since you controll the dinosaur that helps you aswell (one input controlling 2 characters virtually) and so on and so on...
If the game was really very linear, I wouldn't have been able to improve Sami's run, which got 7 yes votes and only 2 no votes (one by me since I knew it was improvable, and one by Phil, since the didn't like a warpless run), by nearly a whole minute.
Also, when rewatching this, I was kinda suprised by the entertainment I got from it. I thought it would be pretty boring, but I was wrong. The only parts that were really frustrating were the egg rooms at the end of the level (I don't believe wobbling would have made those really fun either).
(On a side note, I dislike it when people compare with other games and say: "This run was bad, but there are way worse movies published". Like I stated above, I don't think this run is bad.) But if compared to the Adventure Island 1 and Adventure Island 3, I think this game is by far the most suited for a TAS.
Sorry if I seemed 'defensive'. Just wanted to mention some stuff.
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I agree, it looks very good compaired to your first run. I like the amount of effort you're putting into it.
I do think the quality of Phils run is a lot higher. You should take a look at some of the strategies used in the run. Rooms where you only use bombs, like the darknut room in level 3 could theoretically be played equally fast as Phil did.
Btw, why did you do a Up+A at the end of the run, after getting the ladder? Starting the level over and walking to the boss takes way longer than not doing an Up+A.
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It's the ',' -button (comma)...
If it's not, just assign it at the Hotkeys menu (if you're absolutely sure it's not there, then you should install a newer version).
Why create a whole new topic about this single question?
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FODA wrote:
I'd suggest a 3rd rating: "familiarity level", to see how well the people voting on technical quality and entertaining value know the game.
"Familiarity level: Rate from 0 to 10 how well you know this game"
I disagree. There are several games underrated because people don't know the game, and several movies overrated, just because the game is popular (while the movie is not really that special).
Adding a third rating like this, will only give the popular games a higher average grade, while they are possibly overrated already.
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Thanks all, for liking it :)
I tried to give the run as much variety as possible, but it was pretty hard with the very limited moves of the turtle in this game. I can see why it might be a little repetetive after ~1000 A+B-attacks, but I don't think there's much to do about that. Good thing this movie is 4 minutes shorter than the previous version ;)
Glad I'm finally done with this run :) Not only manipulating the place where the enemies enter, but the frame at which they turn vulnerable too was very frustrating. Now all my runs are FCEUed :)
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Moozooh wrote:
Can't wait to see you pwning tigers. :D
You'll see soon; I just completed the Dojo :D
I'm happy with the way the run looks sofar, and the times I'm getting (keeping the number for myself for now, you'll see when I submit ;) ).
Only the Technodrome left :). Unfortunately it's very long, and has 3 (!!!) bosses.
I think I'll be able to submit the run this weekend.
(so cancel your plans :P )
