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In general:
- Load the movie
- Turn "read+write"-mode on (toggle between "read + write"-mode and "read only"-mode with Shift+8
- Load a savestate at the spot you want to continue recording
When doing this for the first time, it's probably better to make a backup of your movie first, so that you won't lose your movie if you actually record from a wrong savestate.
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Personman wrote:
Of course, you could argue that viewers with no prior experience don't know what they're missing, and it's our job to make sure they get the very best.
Yes, this is basically my point. So even if it is representative of the outside viewership at large, they don't know what they're missing.
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The run looks a bit sloppy to me. The part at the beginning of the first level you enter especially sticks out. I'm pretty sure this run can be improved with a little more effort. Voting meh.
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Personman wrote:
I went ahead and compiled some simple statistics from the comments in the youtube thread.
Getting statistics from youtube isn't very useful as people aren't comparing with the currently published run there. People who mentioned camera angles here are specifically comparing the angles in this run with the ones in the published run.
SaxxonPike wrote:
AngerFist wrote:
If this doesn't get published, then we should revert a few super mario bros (nes and N64) runs cause many of them improved prior runs by a few mere frames. Some of them actually had bad camera angles and bad "style" but still were accepted.
Why should those be published and not this one?
Not all movies that are faster than the published TAS are accepted. Some have been rejected because of stylistic choices, like this one: http://tasvideos.org/1654S.html.
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Super Mario Bros 2 "Warpless" got Super Mario Bros 3's star. Read the above posts for an explanation how this came about.
Sonikkustar wrote:
I do support the idea for SMB2U warpless getting a star, but I also fear that there is soon going to be too much Author/TASer favoritism. We already have authors having more than 4 stars now. So I think that a variety of authors should be considered when deciding for big runs like this.
Just my thoughts.
I think you could only speak of favoritism if the author was a factor in which run got a star, which is not the case.
In any case... I decided to check who this person with more than 4 stars was. I'm quite glad that I checked, since given your post, the results are quite surprising. There are 7 authors with 2 star runs, and 35 people with 1 star run (notice that quite a lot of runs had multiple authors). Not a single TASer currently has more than 2 TASes with a star.
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Hmm, I don't think there currently is enough support for giving Wario Land 4 a star.
In the warpless Super Mario Bros 2 submission thread, it was suggested that this run should get a star. Any opinions on this? (And if so, would Mario become too dominant again in the starlist? Should another star go?)
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Should this be considered as a new star, or as replacing a present one? If it should replace one, which one? If it would be a new star, are there TASes similar to it that should also be considered?
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The idea of being able to fool the game into thinking you're giving correct answers is nice, but to me not the main feature of this TAS. I really enjoy these recognizable pictures being drawn from scratch, and I probably wouldn't even be bored if it lasted twice as long. Voting yes!
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Just posting this list as I was curious about it myself. We currently have:
0 < Z < 1: 93 people - Former Player
1 < Z < 250: 141 people - Player
250 < Z < 500: 57 people - Active Player
500 < Z < 1000: 31 people - Experienced Player
1000 < Z < 2000: 16 people - Skilled Player
2000 < Z : 9 people - Expert Player
It's quite interesting to compare this to what this was when this rank system was introduced little over 2 years ago:
Baxter wrote:
0 < Z < 1: 51 people - Former Player
1 < Z < 250: 111 people - Player
250 < Z < 500: 33 people - Active Player
500 < Z < 1000: 22 people - Experienced Player
1000 < Z < 2000: 7 people - Skilled Player
2000 < Z : 5 people - Expert Player
Out of the 9 people with more than 2000 player points only Randil has over 3000 and adelikat over 6000. In the current setup, a next rank would be at 4000. Even Randil is rather far away from such a rank. I have nothing against giving adelikat a heads-up, he certainly deserves it... but it would be a rank exclusively to him, and for a very long time (he might even reach 8000 before anyone else reaches 4000). I'm not quite sure how useful such a rank would be.
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There won't be a V2, at least not from NxCy or me. If, after many years, we manage to finish the TAS, we are certainly not gonna spend another few years to include a few improvements. (That time could be spend better doing something new.)darkszero wrote:
From what I know this game isn't hexable, right?
Tiny parts at most. Everything that involves enemies or stars is random, and will cause desyncs.
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Right, the current status of this run.
So using the walljump saves time in several places. This is a very crude summary of some important places where time can be saved using the walljump.
1-1 ~10 frames
1-6 ~50 frames
1-8 ~100 frames
2-4 and 2-5 lots
3-1 and 3-2 a bit
Our wip when the walljump was discovered played up to about half of 3-3.
Now the question is, should we redo and from where? Some opinions on this would be nice, but I might as well mention what we had in mind.
We spent lots of time optimizing everything, and wouldn't like it if people felt like they were watching something very improvable. We were thinking about redoing from 1-6. The walljump in 1-1 only saves 10 frames, and redoing 5 entire levels for this seems to cost way too many hours of work. The 1-6 improvement is bigger, and the 1-8 improvement is 'only' 2 levels away. Redoing from 1-6 does mean that the run will take even longer than it's already taking.
We're also not quite sure yet if we should release (some more of) the now obsolete current wip if we redo.
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I don't think the movie should be compared to the 4-player arcade TAS. The game feels quite different, and the gameplay certainly is. Glitching with 2 players adds some extra fun, and throughout the game the 2 turtles looked a lot more active and useful (not nearly as much just walking into the steady screen, waiting for it to scroll) than the 4 turtles in the arcade TAS (this might be because they had actually more to do, or due to the TASing method of recording all players at the same time vs recording them one by one). Either way, my point is, this TAS is very different, and entertaining in its own right.
Compared to the 1 player TAS, I have to admit a second player adds more entertainment. A lot more is happening on screen, and there are some options to sync movements. Do I think this should obsolete the 1 player version? Not in the least bit. I spend a lot of time not just optimizing that TAS, but also making it as entertaining and varied as I possibly could with 1 player. It shows some things that aren't in this TAS, and is still the fastest completion of the game by some 3 minutes.
Anyway, I found this movie very entertaining. Yes vote.
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The rush coil animation might take time, but might not cost time. If you have to wait before getting to the middle of the room anyway, the time waiting for the rush animation is waited either way.
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hanzou wrote:
Good job you two! Baxter, glad to see that you are keeping up with TASing after all these years. I saw the swordless run tonight as well.
Comments / ideas for future runs:
* I'm probably behind the times, but walking out half a square to reenter the gambling cave looked slower than what I recall from Phil's old run (press left, not up, to reenter). Did a test and it seems still able to save at least one frame while maintaining the same randomness result: zelda_cave_reenter.fm2
* I'm still hoping one of these days a Zelda run will show the window of opportunity (fcm from 2007) on Ganon in Mega Man 3 style.
* Another idea for a useless style move came to me while watching level 7 in your movie: zelda_grumble_stab.fm2. Doesn't save time, but doesn't cost any frames either, right?
Hey, long time no see :)
Yeah, the cave can be reentered quite a few frames sooner (both times the gambling cave is entered it can be done roughly 20 frames sooner). The reason for not doing this is that the 50-rupee won't be in the center (and collecting the 50-rupee on the left or right side costs more than 20 frames). The randomness is completely determined by what frame you enter. Randomness however only changes every 4 frames, as "leaving the overworld" has a 4-frame frame-rule. The wait might have been slightly smaller in the previous TAS, but this is pure luck and nothing particulaly improvable. The waiting frames were probably better hidden in the previous version, slowing down a frame every few frames on the way to the cave for instance. This could also be done in this run.
So your first suggestion is actually like your second and third one. Zelda is perfectly good hexeditable as long as your changes are equally fast, so technically your suggestions can be added quite easily. The problem is however that encodes have already been made.
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You guys do realize that this will just be collecting more stuff... no actual significant changes in the gameplay...
- It's basically never worth to switch to boomerang, candle, magic wand, to defeat stuff...
- A lot of stuff needs to be bought (picking up money from gambling isn't particularly entertaining): bomb upgrades, red potion, magic shield, meat (does this need to be bought again after it's used?), arrows etc (this all is also stuff that's never used)
- Those who think the extra heart containers will enable more damage boosts can't be farther from the truth. A damage boost is not worth having your health refilled by the triforce. Therefore, the more hearts containers you have, the more health you need to be looking for after a reset (as you will start with 3 filled only), and damage boosts are out of the question then. Even if there's no reset after a level, I don't think more boosts are possible, since as said, all health needs to be refilled before the next triforce piece.
A blue ring MIGHT help with boosts, but it's never worth it if picking up the red ring is enough (which can only be done at the very end of the game).
- Magic key will avoid some interesting fights (although ok, there are some new rooms with extra pickups, especially if map and compas are needed).
Anyway, most importantly, is there even anyone remotely interested in TASing it? (As you might be able to tell, I'm sure as hell not going to :P)
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hegyak wrote:
When you went from dungeon 2 to dungeon 5 why didn't you warp instead of taking the stairs up?
I assume by warp you mean glitch to the other side of the screen?
To reach level 5 the normal way, you have to have to go up 4 times in the screen below it. This can be avoided by using the glitch from the screen right to it. We used the smallest stairs to reach this screen to the right of level 5 (the other stairs leading up to there are a bit longer, and Link would have to make a detour to reach the right side of the screen to glitch). Taking the stairs we took is the fastest option.
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Hey Glitchman, why did you delete your post with that new way to complete that moving platform room in the dustman stage?
It looked really awesome! Would be nice if you would put it up again, in case people want to see :)
