Posts for Boco

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Posted: 11/6/2005 10:58 PM
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Boco
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Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
1. Why did you post twice? There is an "edit" button. 2. Why did you use quotation marks instead of the "quote" feature? 3. Why are you acting in such a way that you are unfamiliar with the rules and how they are applied? Did you not read the rules before registering?
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 11/3/2005 5:47 AM
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Boco
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Location: Heather's imagination
Quintillion is only 18 orders of magnitude. If we are talking about ONLY the LAST part of the LAST level in SMB that's like 300 orders of magnitude. You'll need to do a bit better than that.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 11/3/2005 5:05 AM
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Boco
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nitsuja wrote:
xebra wrote:
Until we know which things do and do not affect randomness.
Isn't this pretty easy to test beforehand? Even without looking at the game's random generator function (which can be done) it's possible to be reasonably sure whether it affects the randomness. However, in this case it's probably not worth it to add the restriction either way, because if pressing B more times doesn't do anything besides possibly affecting randomness, then doing so can't make things worse. (Which agrees with what you proposed before, in this one case.)
It can "make things worse" in the sense that allowing it greatly increases the range of possible input, which means you'll take longer to find a solution because you'll try things that evaluate the same many many times. (oh, I lost what I was going to say. anyway it was something like 10 frames input is 3 GB with no restriction, and just adding a 0-or-1 B button press restriction makes it only 3 MB instead, etc., etc)
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 11/3/2005 4:38 AM
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Boco
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We are talking about two completely different things. You are talking about randomly picking inputs based on some heuristics. I am talking about generating all possible inputs, then pruning them based on some heuristics and randomising the order. Your way allows for both holes in the searchspace and repeated computation. And by not understanding what I'm talking about and assuming I'm talking about your way you are intentionally misinterpreting what I say. Please stop.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 11/3/2005 4:29 AM
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Boco
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Location: Heather's imagination
We can even take "useful" further. By knowing how far Link walks for each frame held of each direction we can calculate from an input sequence where he is (ignoring damage etc). We can then prune things like "leave the room immediately" and "walk into a wall" etc. LOTS of things can and should be pruned BEFORE trying them, and even during trials many sequences should be discarded before the alloted time is done.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 11/3/2005 4:26 AM
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Boco
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xebra wrote:
Boco wrote:
Because the input generator is exhaustively listing all legal, useful inputs.
It sure would be nice if this was possible, but, gee, I don't think you'll know if an input sequence is useful until you try it out. Or isn't that the point?
You are in a room. You are fighting. You have 1 bomb. Should we allow sequences that press 'B' more than once? Same situation. Note that pressing 'A' freezes you in place for some number of frames. Should we allow sequences that press 'A' while pressing any other button, etc? Many many many of these can be enumerated and used to prune the possible inputs. That is what I meant by "legal and useful".
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 11/3/2005 4:11 AM
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Boco
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Location: Heather's imagination
xebra wrote:
JXQ wrote:
I don't understand why you think eliminating invalid key combinations is a bad idea.
Why allow your input generating algorithm to create invalid key combinations in the first place?
Because the input generator is exhaustively listing all legal, useful inputs. Not some random subset. But if it were some random subset, the randomness should still be done on a central server sending out chunks for processing to ensure no single combination is checked twice.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 11/3/2005 2:28 AM
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Boco
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Location: Heather's imagination
I think the best play will result in the bot having a strict time limit (per room) and a strict set of goals (will collecting money/bombs be needed? will it have access to bombs/arrows, and how many? etc), doing one room at a time, and knowing enough about the game to not do useless inputs. All menu access should be done manually at strict points, the route and all item drops will be predetermined.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 11/3/2005 2:19 AM
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Boco
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qbproger, Please check your math. It may help to read the discussion about Super Mario Bros. located here. The problem is in the exponent. Distributed or parallel computing will only let us cut out multiples, not exponents. The trick is to prune things early and often, like the above discussion said - that is, NOT brute force.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 11/3/2005 12:50 AM
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Boco
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Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
Walker Boh wrote:
Aha. I've always learned that Doki Doki Panic was the same as the USA SMB2, perhaps with changed characters. I haven't played Doki Doki myself though but I trust your word on that one.
They're mostly similar, but in Doki Doki Panic there is less animation, characters are tracked separately (no switching characters to play some stage, then switching back - all of them start at the beginning), and you can save your progress. There are also a few other graphics and music changes, and I think one boss change.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 11/2/2005 12:53 PM
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Boco
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Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
I think it should work by mutation only. Crossover I think would not work because what is a good second half for one individual would not be a good second half for pretty much any other invidivual inless their respective first halves are also identical. But simple mutation would work, just take a very long time.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 11/2/2005 1:50 AM
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Boco
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So what, are we creating an optimised route with specific constraints (like item switches) at certain points, and the bot's job is to minimise the time spent in each room?
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 11/1/2005 1:15 AM
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Boco
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Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
RT-55J wrote:
All hail the (retired) Robot Sumo Champion!!
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 10/29/2005 10:53 PM
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Boco
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Location: Heather's imagination
Shinryuu wrote:
hmm.. "Shin De" = Die or something like that
"shine", not "shinde". It's command form of "shinu" "to die".
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 10/29/2005 10:15 PM
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Boco
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Location: Heather's imagination
Shinryuu wrote:
My nick Shinryuu comes from Final Fantasy V/5 .. it's almost hardest boss in the game and it appears from the box.. and the name is "japanese" :) It's cool Creature and i like it a lot so i choosed Shinryuu to my nick. Shin = Death ryuu = Dragon ??? Shinryuu can be Deathdragon.. im not really sure. :/
shinryuu = dragon god. "shin" is not "death".
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 10/28/2005 7:00 AM
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Boco
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Location: Heather's imagination
todd wrote:
Actually, I'd say that Bisqwit has already started along this path with his brilliant Rockman-playing program.
It has already been modified to play SMB. Last I knew it was working on world 3-2, having failed to get warp zone. But it's up to Bisqwit to say what he wants about it outside of the IRC channel. It uses a LOT of simplifying assumptions and only generates soemthing like a few hundred semi-random inputs for any given gameplay second, so it's not really a brute force. But whatever.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 10/28/2005 6:16 AM
(Edited: 10/28/2005 6:36 AM)
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Boco
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Location: Heather's imagination
Assuming we have a perfect route for SMB1 the game can be divided into these sections, lasting (currently) this many frames, rounded up to nearest 5: 1-1 pre-pipe: 195 to 575 = 380 frames 1-1 pipe: 650 to 780 = 130 frames 1-1 post-pipe: 965 to 1295 = 330 frames 1-2: 2490 to 3860 = 1370 frames 4-1: 4000 to 5445 = 1445 frames 4-2 pre-pipe: 6610 to 7225 = 615 frames 4-2 warp zone: 7290 to 7775 = 485 frames 8-1: 7975 to 10385 = 2410 frames 8-2: 11040 to 12445 = 1405 frames 8-3: 13245 to 14615 = 1370 frames 8-4 p1: 15350 to 15890 = 540 frames 8-4 p2: 16045 to 16315 = 270 frames 8-4 p3: 16480 to 16685 = 205 frames 8-4 p4: 16850 to 17545 = 695 frames 8-4 p5: 17720 to 18000 = 280 frames Of course each of these sections can be +/- 20 frames to account for the maximum variation of cutscene length. In the end it's brought 1.44e21674 to a still quite impossible 8.50e2901. An impressive drop of nearly 19 thousand orders of magnitude. But if an entire route were analysed every millisecond it would still take about 10^2888 millenia. Just doing the last section of the last stage (which is most important, as the other sections need to deal with the 21-frame thing) would require 10^323 millenia. For comparison there are something less than 10^90 particles in the universe. Which is about 10^7 millenia old, give or take. (edit: fixed math)
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 10/26/2005 6:19 PM
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Boco
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Location: Heather's imagination
DJ FozzBozz wrote:
Well, seeing a WIP would help, we could look at it and propose ideas.
Umm,,, Sami's run is finished. It's a little sloppy but it's already done.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 10/23/2005 1:17 AM
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Boco
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I've always been more interested in the technical demonstration / theoretical perfection side anyway. After all, if I want demonstrations of skill, I can watch videos at SDA or wherever.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 10/19/2005 12:34 AM
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Boco
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Location: Heather's imagination
MahaTmA wrote:
Since the fly is travelling at 25 mph AND the train is travelling at 25 mph, [...] [t]he fly will fly right ahead of the first train until both trains collide.
The fly can increase or decrease its speed at will, with a 1 mph*s acceleration. Which means it starts at 0 relative to the first train (with the other approaching at 50) and accelerates until it has just enough time to reverse acceleration in time to match that other train's speed as they touch, etc., etc.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 10/19/2005 12:26 AM
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Boco
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Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
I don't know particularly about the fastest path to find certain cards, or even what cards are in what game, but first-turn kills are not impossible even without Exodia. But I do not think a run of any of the Yugioh games would be interesting except maybe Dungeondice Monsters.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 10/16/2005 8:17 PM
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Boco
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OK, the demo video has been updated to show the entire route. The game finishes in 14 minutes. As you can see, both sides of the lake have annoying things you need to wait for.. but I have no idea how to make enough room in the inventory to take the other two warps I know about to cut out those waits.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 10/16/2005 6:42 AM
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Boco
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Location: Heather's imagination
FODA wrote:
Why dont you record a very unoptimized movie of the route? it wouldn't take that long to make and people would be able to see more clearly the route, i guess.
That's what I'm doing now, I should be done tomorrow. The only way I can think of to make it better are to get the flippers (to avoid underwater weights) & use the right-side warp (to avoid the underwater backtracking)... but both of those require an item in the inventory to do and that means only ONE item can be carried around instead of 2 (the snorkel unfortunately never leaves the inventory for more than a few seconds at a time ;_; ) This WIP finishes through step 3 in 2 minutes. There's already room for improvement in optimisation but I don't really think it matters on a first time through. (the ROM used is "Quattro Adventure (Unl) (U).nes", but the Aladdin version works too).
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 10/16/2005 2:07 AM
Post subject: Treasure Island Dizzy
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Boco
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Location: Heather's imagination
This game is the second in the Dizzy series by the Oliver Twins, and the first to appear on the NES. It is a very short game compared to the other Dizzy games so I thought it would make a good introduction to how the Dizzy series works for people who don't know. Essentially, Dizzy is a very fragile egg with a three-slots-big backpack who goes on all sorts of adventures. You have to figure out what to pick up and where to take it to make him not die. There are two versions of this game on time-attack-able consoles. The NES version and the Aladdin version are mostly identical, but the NES version uses a black screen for scene transitions and the Aladdin version instead paints the screen in plain view. I prefer the NES version because the -last- thing the Aladdin version does is apply the correct pallete so it gives me a headache to play. There might be other changes, the screen transitions might be faster in one, I don't know, but I like the NES version better. (both versions are rather poorly programmed ports of the original Spectrum game). Here is a map of the world (Amiga version) You start at the beach on the left side of the lake. Here is my proposed route. It makes use of one secret warp (from the left clouds to the sunken ship) but does not use either of the others (totem pole to right clouds, right clouds to left clouds) because of inventory constraints. Step 1, GETTING A SNORKEL - get OLD CHEST, left, use OLD CHEST, up,leftx8,up,right,left,up, get SNORKEL. Step 2, USING THE WEIGHT - right, get 10TON WEIGHT, left,down,right,left,down,right, glitch up, use 10TON WEIGHT. Step 3, WANDERING THE TREES - right,up,left,right, get DETONATOR, right, get SHOVEL, right,down,right,left, switch DETONATOR for POGO STICK, down,right, warp. Step 4, GOING FOR A SWIM - left,right, switch SHOVEL for CROWBAR, jump upx2, rotate items, right,downx2, use CROWBAR, leftx2,right, get SHOVEL, jump upx2, switch POGO STICK for ASBESTOS, right,downx2,right,up,right. Step 5, SPELUNKING - use SHOVEL, rightx5, get KEY, leftx5, down,rightx2, use KEY, rightx2, get GOLD EGG, leftx2,down, switch ASBESTOS for BRANDY. Step 6, BUYING A BOAT - up,leftx4,right,up,rightx4, exchange GOLD EGG and BRANDY for PARTSx2, rightx2, use PARTSx2, left x3. Step 7, GRAVEROBBING - get BIBLE, leftx2, get AXE, left,down,leftx4,up,leftx2,up,leftx2, use AXE, down,right, get TREASURE, leftx2,up. Step 8, BUYING GAS - leftx3,up,left,right,up,rightx2,down,right,left, get DETONATOR, down,right, warp, rightx2,up,rightx5, exchange TREASURE for PARTS, rightx2, use PARTS, leftx5. Step 9, EXPLODING ROCK - down,left, get TNT, leftx4, up, leftx2, up, leftx10, use TNT, use DETONATOR, get COINS. Step 10, WINNING THE GAME - rightx10,down,rightx2,down,rightx4,up,rightx4, exchange COINS for PARTS, rightx2, use PARTS, right, win!
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 10/14/2005 2:49 AM
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Boco
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Location: Heather's imagination
MattyXB wrote:
There is a Prototype ROM out somewhere from Final Fantasy II (U). So this is an official translation. Was released someday and its official.
It was never released to the public, and the translation was never finished. It was an in-house prototype that was later leaked. It has the same status as the translated Mother (= Earthbound or Earthbound Zero depending on whether or not you have the emu-friendly hacked version), albeit from a much earlier phase in development.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
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