Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
DS: Easy! Just use the mouse. Touchscreens can only register one point at a time. If you touch two places at once then those two points are sort averaged together to create one point. So the movie file would save: X, Y, (d-pad), B, A, Y, X, start, and maybe hibernate. Totally doable.
Wii: This is speculation on my part, but the game software probably recieves all of the following: X, Y, Z, Roll, Pitch, and Yaw. (And buttons.) So there are six dimensions where the DS only has two. You can definitely still record the input and make movies although there is no good input device. You'd have to input commands like "Add 30 to Z, frame advance, Add 10 to Y + A, frame advance" etc. Or you could invest in a 3D mouse but I doubt that anyone wants a Wii emulator that costs $400. (Irony.)
PS: 512 MB of RAM is standard now and 1GB will be standard soon. So basically we can hold both the console and a disk image in memory at the same. Correction: in system memory. If you have that much RAM then your graphics card must have at least 64MB of video ram as well and that's more than enough space to run a PS1 game. There is no need to emulate the optical drive.
I think PS2 emulation might exist. Besides stability I think the main issue is that it runs at 5fps maximum. But that's not a problem here, is it? :P I can imagine some devs working on the project as a hobby, slaving away just trying to get at least one game up to a good framerate, when someone pipes up with a feature request: "Hey, can you make this run even slower? Maybe even manual frame advance?"
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1680/08-19-06.smv
I found a way to make the 4 minute 'timed' sequence interesting. :)
Each map transition causes 1-2 frames of lag, however, I cut the chocobo tighter at the mountain pass and enter Vector from the left side instead of the right. That saves me a whole step!
Erokky noted during his run that Leo can kill Kefka with 4 hits instead of 5 if Leo uses 4 Ice Rods. Not only is the Ice Rod animation shorter than Leo's X-Fight or Shock anyway, but you get to see Leo's magic-using animation which he's not supposed to have. :) (In the story of the game Leo refuses to use magic.) That's what the Back Guard is for. I can buy an Ice Rod with it.
By the game clock I'm no worse off than 2 minutes behind Erokky, which is fine for now. We weren't competing on time anyway. I have a little bit of 'borrowed time' from Kutan that'll hurt later in WOR. But since I'm using the sketch glitch and taking Sabin I'll be able to turn some of that borrowed time into earned time. Going straight from Daryll's Tomb to Kefka's Tower is going to look awesome in the video since no sane player would ever do that. :) My Falcon -> Input End will be faster than Erokky's published run. I'm still shooting for sub-4 which was my goal in my first post. It's easily possible if I start over but I'd rather finish this run first.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Morrison wrote:
JXQ wrote:
I always thought that calling it "flaming" was a retarded name.
Does anyone know where the use of "flame" as an insult originated? I'm just curious because it seems like an odd term to use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming
I wouldn't have believed his "not me" story either but it doesn't matter now. He probably caved in once he started getting hassled over it.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
That extension is awesome! And so was your video of course. :) I love the idea of playing a game in a HUD of your own design. The ending gave me a big grin too.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Atma wrote:
The ending is still wicked lame since you pretty much just joker doom everything that gets in your way.
Nope! Doom gets hit by Vanish/Doom. And if you hate instant death, I'm actually going to do 44,000 points of damage to Goddess. The Guardian and Inferno both deserve Joker Doom, although the Guardian is a cool boss. As for my opinion of the tiers: go watch the end of the Chrono Trigger movie. Ugh. If I knew of a way around having to level Magus for 20 minutes, I'd do it. And if I knew of a better way to dispatch Lavos besides tape down the A button and go get a Coke, I'd do that too. (Beautiful run otherwise though. I just wish CT was more exploitable somehow.)
It would probably add about 15 minutes to my time if I were to use Offering+Fixed Dice for the Guardian, Inferno, Poltrgeist, and the tiers. I could theoretically use a Force Shld instead of an ill-gotten Paladin Shld too. I could then modify a copy of my finished run to use this strategy if there is demand for it. These movies are made for entertainment after all. But it really is just a waste of the clock for no good reason. It's not like I'm doing a LLG or a SCC. My goal is to reach the credits as fast as possible. If using the sketch glitch on the Chimera just a few pages back had panned out the way I wanted it to then I could've had a really fast time. :P Since this game has so many crazy fans I'm sure one of them will do a NMG+LLG TAS. (But they should also wait and see if the GBA version is more suitable!)
Bob A: No one will ever know if Kutan is faster in all situations. If I were to have Locke use a desperation move instead of a lightning rod against the TunnelArmr then Kutan would be looking pretty darn good. However, Kutan without Sabin in the WOR is both slow and difficult to play. You won't beat the Tentacles without either over-levelling or using magic-casting items. Kutan is a vegitable and you don't have have the chance to equip relics or espers on Edgar. So unless you start that battle by summoning Phantom from an item, you're dead. Then Edgar pretty much has to spend 10 minutes killing the Tentacles one by one with his Drill. Adding Sabin gives you a fighting chance. Adding a dozen Fire Rods or FlameShlds makes the battle reasonable. I think I can say though, the the total impact that Kutan has on my run is less than 3 minutes in either direction. I don't know which direction.
Wandering Road: 4 hours. I save boatloads of time by gunning straight for Kefka's Tower. Thanks to the Tentacles being such a pain, the sketch glitch more than pays for itself right there. And as I do the sketch glitch I can teach Sabin most of Vanish+Doom at no additional cost. That lets me skip one of Mog or Gau. Then, my Edgar strategy lets me skip the other. Normally, Mog is a sweet deal because he recovers his cost by saving you a few random encounters. However, Mog is only worth it if you need his Snare. He isn't worth just for the sake of stopping some encounters in the final dungeon.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Here it is! Faster than my old version up to this point! My old movie took 500,000 frames just to start flying the airship. This new movie gets on the Blackjack, re-arranges my party, buys some Warp Stones, and starts flying in just barely under 500,000 frames. I think I gained time on my Number 128 fight, too, but I didn't measure it. The reason this movie is over a minute faster is because I didn't mess around with the Flan and I don't take the Break Blade.
SMV File:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1470/07-29-06.smv
This URL is for a zip with 6 save states within the movie.
I'm sorry, I used YSI.
Since I'm documenting everything...
* It is barely faster to talk to Cid from his front rather than his left side. The automatic 2 steps that you have to take are slightly slower than taking them yourself.
* However it is 8 frames faster to step on the topmost trigger that makes Setzer appear. In this case, unlike the previous case with Cid, the forced steps that you have to take are faster.
* By leaving the subscreen 1 frame late (at 457176) I am able to get a pre-emptive attack with just one frame of delay! At first I hurried through the menu AFAP but then I didn't get any pre-emptives in the first 30 frames that I tried. Go figure.
* Close slots early trick: If you press 'A' to close the slot window exactly 1 frame before the 3rd reel stops moving then the window will close while the 3rd reel is misaligned. This has no effect besides saving me 1 frame. :)
Up next: a bunch of text boxes, then me running from a bunch of pre-emptive attacks, followed by a bunch more text boxes and finally the signifcantly more interesting Imperial Banquet.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
I saw the topic title and I thought to myself: "Hey! I remember playing that game as a kid!" Go figure. I would love to see a run of this game! I never got beyond level 2 but I remember there being secrets all over the place. I also remember this game being very random. I think I also remember that it is possible to continuously make foward progress, but never end the level. I think level 1 requires you to find a certain item under the blocks and the level will loop forever until you find it.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Good news! I discovered that the cause of my crash was a combination of the sketch glitch on a mould 7 monster and some old cheat codes that I had enabled to zero out the monsters HP. I'm not sure why this was a problem, but it won't be a problem in the movie. (Zeroing out the HP is just faster for me than manipulating the 777. The movie will use 777 of course.) And I did verify that my spell plan does in fact cause the sketch glitch, and that I do get the items that I want from it.
So then, I went to do one last test run. This should be the fastest FF6 route ever:
NOTES
- Muddle requires 15 AP on Stray
- Locke or Terra should have Muddle before Ultros 3 (Muddle + Phantom)
- Sabin or Edgar should have Muddle before Ultros 4 (Muddle + 77B)
- Vanish requires 35 AP on Phantom and also teaches Beserk and Demi
- Doom requires 50 AP on Shoat and also teaches Bio and Break
- Given Vanish/Doom, the optimal route to the sketch glitch involves the following spells: Cure, Antdot, Scan, Muddle, Bserk, Vanish, Bolt, Poison, Bio, Break, and (Demi - not used).
- Relm and Setzer can learn the rest of the spells by using Maduin and Kirin.
PATH
1. Defeat #024
Sabin gets 4AP for Stray
2. Escape Sequence + Defeat #128
Locke steals a Tempest to sell for an Ice Rod later. (+rare item bonus)
Sabin gets 13 AP for Phantom
Locke gets 13 AP for Stray
3. Cranes
Locke steals a Debilitator for future ownage.
Sabin gets 4 AP from cranes for Phantom (17/35)
Locke finishes learning Muddle
4. Pickup Terra5. Fly though the Cave to the Sealed Gate6. Score 82/83 at the Imperial Banquet
Sabin gets 3 total AP from 'required' fights for Phantom (20/35)
Take the Gale Hairpin while the timer ticks. This item saves more time than the few frames that Erokky saved by minimizing the number of screen transitions and it gives me something to do during the 2 minutes of boredom.
Score the Charm Bangle!
7. Boat to Thamasa8. Go Shopping
Sell everything except one Earring, the Hero Ring, and the tools.
Purchase 8 Ice Rods
9. Defeat the FlameEater with 4 Ice Rods
10. Defeat Ultros 3 with Muddle+Phantom and SabreSoul from Strago
11. General Leo's Battle
Use 4 Ice Rods for improved damage.
Leo's attack animations are very slow. Ice Rods are faster, anyway.
Watch Leo enter his spell casting pose!
12. The IAF Sequence
Win with Joker Doom
Sabin gets 12 AP for Stray and learns Muddle
Relm and Setzer each get 12 AP towards their goals of 20 and 25 AP.
13. Defeat Ultros 4 with Muddle+77B
14. Defeat Air Force with 777
Sabin gets 3 AP towards Phantom (23 total)
15. Manipulate two 6 AP random enounters and use Joker Doom
Sabin learns Vanish and Bserk
Relm learns Poison and finishes her portion of the sketch glitch setup
Setzer learns Antdot and Scan and finishes with his esper as well
16. Win any two random encounters before the Atma Weapon
Sabin now has 10/50 on Shoat
Normally you get 6-7 encounters on the Floating Continent. This path uses 4.
17. Joker Doom the Atma Weapon
Sabin is at 20/50 on Shoat. Sabin learns Bio and Break. The sketch glitch is ready. There are exactly 6 steps between the Atma Weapon and Ghestal. Plan on a random enounter happening in those 6 steps. (Done.)
18. Do the Sketch Glitch
Manipulate the battle to be a Dragon
Win with Joker Doom
Obtain: Flame Shlds, Paladin Shlds, Echo Screens, Smoke Bombs, Magicite, each in a quantity of at least 100, plus 7 Illuminas.
Sabin is at 25/50 on Shoat
19. Fight 4 Naughties and Nerapa
Flame Shld for each Naughty
Joker Doom OR Aurabolt OR ThundrRod for Nerapa
20. Solitary Island
Without Sprint Shoes it is a toss up which is faster: feeding Cid or ignoring him. Figure this out and move on. This segment of the game affects nothing in the future.
21. Pick Up Sabin in Tzen
With 'luck', I can get away with as little as 4 random encounters total
Equip Sabin with SS+CB! Yay!
22. Chocobo to Nikeah23. Meet Gerad in Nikeah
Last chance to manipulate the ones digit of my GP, but I should not have to.
24. Meet Gerad in South Figaro25. Fight the Tentacles
Re-equip Sabin to be double boosted.
Round 1: Sabin casts Doom. Edgar makes the 7000 HP target weak to fire. (Normally absorbs.) Kutan targets the top-left Tentacle with a Flame Shld. No enemies target Kutan and all of them miss. (Paladin Shlds! Edgar gets one automatically.)
Round 2: Kutan targets the top left one and takes it out. Sabin targets Edgar's tentacle and does 6000 damage. Edgar attacks it with the Illumina for 1006 damage and kills it. The remaining Tentacle does nothing.
Round 3: The last remaining Tentacle has just 5000 HP and is killed by the next two characters who act. Any two will work.
Sabin gets 5 AP and is at 45/50 on Shoat
Boy was I happy with this fight!
26. Shuttle to Kohlingen and Meet Setzer27. Defeat Dullahan with Joker Doom
Sabin learns Doom!
28. Obtain the Falcon29. Enter Kefka's Tower
Good news! I just saved 5 minutes! Bad news, my party sucks. But...
Edgar+Kutan take the left
Sabin takes the middle
Setzer takes the right
30. Final Dungeon
Edgar runs to his dead end
Sabin unlocks Edgar's path and reaches his dead end
Setzer uses Joker Doom on Inferno and unlocks Sabin's path
Edgar runs to his switch
Sabin runs to his switch
Setzer runs to his switch
Edgar and Kutan go right
Sabin goes left
Setzer uses Joker Doom on the Guardian, Poltrgiest, and stops at the end
Edgar equips himself to be double boosted
Edgar uses forces a fire weakness on the Goddess
Kutan and Edgar use Flame Shlds at the rate of 10K damage per round. Goddess uses nothing but Bolt2/3 on Edgar, who is immune. Goddess dies in 5 rounds total without using Quasar or Overcast. (Confirmed!)
Edgar reaches the final switch
Sabin uses Vanish Doom on Doom (haha!) and reaches the final switch
The tiers are only Sabin, Setzer, and Edgar. Setzer uses 77B, Sabin uses Muddle on Setzer, and Edgar punches Setzer. Three times. None of my characters are ever touched thanks to the Paladin Shlds.
Kefka dies with a calculated 777, probably a Remedy just like Erokky's run. But I'll have to calculate it to be sure.
That should be wicked fast! I'm on step 2. I'll post a WIP at step 4. In the meantime I'm all ears.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Jyzero wrote:
So I'm just going to do my real run now (yay!) and just pray that the sketch command works on my real run.
This is risky. I'm afraid it won't work later if you do the same sequence of events in your real run.
This is strange indeed. I used the Dragon in the little sketch glitch video I posted in the other thread and it worked. Do you have a savestate at that point ?
I know this is old now, but here is that save state: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1278/FC-Crash.smv
This is a new test run (not WIP) where I bring Relm, Setzer, and Sabin on the FC. The plan is for both Edgar and Sabin to learn Vanish, but for Sabin to also learn Doom. The Floating Continent seems to have its own ideas about when random encounters occur and I don't think that the Charm Bangle matters at all in this dungeon. So, since I'm being forced to fight ~7 battles, and I have a manipulatable 50% chance for each battle to give 5 AP, Sabin can easily reach 85 AP during the game for virtually no penalty! In addition, I can use Phantom and Shoat to set up the Sketch Glitch! It's perfect! But then the game crashes. :(
Edgar gets his 35 AP from the following sources: minecart (17), banquet (3), Dullahan (5), Skull Dragon (10). The Sp Forces drop a Magicite item, and Edgar walks within steps away from the dragon in Kefka's Tower. Scoring a OHKO on a boss with Metamorph is both hillarious and fast! I like it!
Believe it or not, teaching both Edgar *and* Sabin both Vanish *and* Doom on the Floating Continent and skipping Mog, Gau, and Gogo and going straight for KT imediately after getting the Falcon is rediculously fast! However, this is only feasable if your third party member is Relm so that she can glitch the dragon into giving you Paladin Shlds. Unfortunately, this team gets absolutely wrecked during the IAF sequence. Edgar can use his Chain Saw, Relm can break a Thundr Rod, and Sabin can use a Blitz, which will likely leave his target alive for Edgar. And then the Air Force.. ugh. More rods. I wish Relm had an ID attack that didn't require me to wait 30 seconds (and die) first.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
I don't have the roms, so I can't watch the WIP, but I love the idea. As awesome as the X1+X2 movie was, a new movie that focuses on the syncronization rather than working around it would be even more entertaining!
But make it single player in each game. Runs where both players are controlled by a single person are cool. Synchronized runs are cool. But your brain will explode if you work too hard on two controllers, two games, and four players. I guess you already have two syncronized players, right?
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Hey, my edit is gone! I'm positive I edited my post the other day. I really meant it when I said "just a minute".
Yeah, the answer to all three was supposed to be Sabin. Teaching Sabin both Vanish and Doom is nearly feasable. He could get: 17 from the cart-Cranes, 3 from the banquet, 11 from the IAF-Air Force, 10 from Atma Weapon, 12 from Naughtys and Nerapa, 5 from the Tentacles, and 5 from Dullahan. Combined, that is 74 AP. Vanish-Doom requires 85.
Random encounters on the FC are almost always worth 5 and can be worth 6, although then Setzer would be required for Joker Doom. Relm has to sketch on the FC and that will likely require one or two encounters to set up anyway, which would give Sabin his 85. Sabin would learn Doom last because Edgar needs to learn Phantom. This is the plan that doesn't work:
Minecart+128+Cranes = 17 AP
Locke learns Muddle (17/15)
Edgar is at 17/35 on Vanish
Sabin is at 17/50 on Doom
Banquet = 3 AP (Mega Armor = 2, Sp Forces = 1)
Terra is at 3/20 on Stray that she needs to set up the Sketch Glitch (SG)
Edgar is at 20/35 on Vanish
Sabin is at 20/50 on Doom
Flame Eater = 4 AP
Terra is at 7/20 on Stray
IAF+Air Force = 11 AP
Terra is at 18/20 on Stray (SG use only)
Sabin is at 11/35 on Phantom
Relm is at 11/15 on Siren (SG use only)
Kill IAF with Aurabolt + Rod each. (I can afford tons of stuff.)
Terra will be at exactly 15 before Ultros. Perfect. Muddle-Fader-StarPrism.
Kill Air Force like Flame Eater, but with more rods. (bad)
Atma Weapon = 10 AP
Sabin is 21/35 on Phantom
Terra and Relm are done.Sabin only needed 20 on Shoat to prepare, which he already had.Dragon = 5 AP (SG time!)
Sabin is at 26/35 on Vanish, assuming that the SG doesn't bork my AP
Naughtys+Nerapa = 3*3 + 3 = 12 AP
Sabin finishes Vanish
Sabin is at 23/50 on Doom
Tentacles
Sabin is at 28/50 on Doom
Dullahan
Edgar is at 25/35 on Vanish
Sabin is at 33/50 on Doom
Taking Edgar instead of Sabin on the FC makes the IAF easier (Chain Saw!), Nerapa easier (Chain Saw!), and the Air Force easier (Chain Saw! No, I mean Debilitator!). However, Edgar gets 5 fewer AP than Sabin. I could kill the random enounters on the FC, because those are partially free, but after a certain point it makes more sense just to get Gogo. Stopping for Cactrot(s) isn't the most efficient way to make up a deficit. Using Metamorph on either the Skull Dragon or the Gold Dragon will work, believe it or not, and will give the left team 10 AP at the last minute just before they need it. (The right team is Setzer because of Inferno.) If I have to resort to this then the Sp Forces from the banquet will drop a Magicite item.
I haven't ruled out Gau in the WOR or Mog in the WOB yet. It's not impossible for me to manipulate Gau into returning on a battle with Rhodox.Then the Figaro bros can get away with just Vanish each...
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Just figured I pop in to give an update!
I've been doing the real life thing for two weeks but I have worked a few hours on this run anyway. I've redone from the start of the Magitek Factory up to the cart ride to skip all of the following: Flan's Magicite, the Break Blade, and Ifrit. I've also stolen a Rune Edge from my buddy #024. :) Next up is 128, his rare steal, and a debilitator from the cranes.
I had a plan for my AP which taught Edgar Vanish, since he was around for enough bosses to nearly get it for free anyway. However, while I was typing it just now, I realized that I could give almost any other character ~10 free AP or Sabin ~20 free AP. (Free means that I don't have to go out of my way for it, and that I also have to kill those monsters anyway.) So then I started thinking about three other problems:
1) I technically don't need Gogo anymore. Before, I was going to get Mog, put him in my party, fight a ZE, equip the MC, and run to Gogo. Gogo can use jump and mimic on 77B to defeat the tiers. However, thanks to Muddle, Gogo is obsolete. That saves bundles of time! But now I need an instant death plan for party #3 in Kefka's Tower. (The other teams are Edgar/Mog and Setzer/Kutan.)
Btw, Kutan can't be half of a Vanish-(death) team. Not only would I need a Magicite item, which I won't have, but Kutan's partner, Mog, won't know Muddle or any other spells. So all Kutan can do is use ES/SB for Setzer. However, thanks to multiple Paladin Shlds, I'm just about invincible without any manipulation at all. I've got a 50% chance to dodge anything physical or magical and a 100% chance to nullify any elemental attack. :) So sending Mog, Setzer, or Gogo in alone is an easily workable strategy.
2) Kutan is slow in the WOR. Physically slow. -_-
3) Prior to the FC I'm begging for AP and I need 2-3 random encounters to set up the sketch glitch. This is not optimal. Then, immediately afterwards, I waste 20 AP without putting it to any use. To set up the sketch glitch Terra needs 20 AP on Stray, Setzer needs 20 on Shoat, and Relm 15 on Siren. This is almost free, but then nobody uses their magic ever again. (Terra does use Muddle on the tiers, but so couldn't anyone else.) Thanks to the Atma Weapon, the Naughties, Nerapa, and the WOR bosses Setzer learns Doom for free and he doesn't even want it. This looks bad. Can I solve #1 and #3 by swapping Setzer for someone else? Give me just a minute.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Jyzero wrote:
This is strange indeed. I used the Dragon in the little sketch glitch video I posted in the other thread and it worked. Do you have a savestate at that point ?
I don't have a save state there because I've started working on my real run now. But to do what I do, cheat. Use AADC-EF08 to get SS+MC and hold the frameskip key. Turbo-A through the dialog and get 3 AP for Terra's Muddle during the Cave to the Sealed Gate. (Or, cheat again. 7E1A91 is Terra's Imp spell. I do the math to find the other spells. Other characters are listed sequentially.) Turbo the banquet and boat ride. If the FlameEater is being obnoxious then attack him with "STZ" ;). (Monster HP = 7E3BFC, 7E3BFE, 7E3C00, 7E3C02, 7E3C04, 7E3C06.) When the FC appears turn off all of your cheat codes and start playing normally. Take Terra, Setzer, and Relm on the FC. Terra will finish Muddle during the IAF sequence. You can use Muddle Doom on Ultros and Smoke Doom on the Air Force. You should be 5 AP away from the rest of the required spells. Use Whatever Doom on two random battles to finish your spell list. I've discovered that I can actually choose the formation that I encounter on the FC by taking my last step at different times, unlike the rest of the game. Thank goodness, because I need to fight a Dragon. Make a save state here and reload untill a Dragon appears. Go. :)
I've redone the Magitek Factory to be about a minute faster thanks to not taking Magicite from Flan and skipping the Break Blade. I'm at precisely the point where Number 024 has wasted the only two turns he'll ever get and I'm in the process of manipulating the two desperation moves that'll finish him off. (Ifrit only took me two hours this time instead of a whole day. I've spent so much time fighting this idiot that I could've done a real console run! Haha.)
Since Flagitoius invented Muddle Doom I don't need Gogo anymore. However, if I swap Gogo for Gau I'll need another vanisher. I don't have Celes otherwise she could learn Vanish almost for free. Then my teams would be Celes/Gau, Edgar/Mog, and Setzer. (I think I can get Gau to *arrive* on a Rhodox or equivilent battle in the WOR!) The Muddle+Phantom trick does work, but Kutan can't do it. So because Kutan is a brick I think I need to stick with Setzer/Kutan, Mog/Edgar, and Gogo. Flying the airship, getting in one battle and waiting for a special event is the common price of either Gau or Gogo. Gogo just requires another 80 seconds of walking. Replacing Gogo with Sabin+Gau and using Muddle+Phantom is a remote possibility. But Sabin has the advantage of speeding up Kutan. (Have I ever mentioned how much I hate Kutan?)
If I were to do a 3rd run, I'd skip the relics in the mansion, manipulate 7E1F6D for a perfect raft ride like Erim did, take Celes, not take the Narshe relics, not pick up any espers in Zozo except Siren, figure out how to use Celes for the sketch glitch since she saves 5 seconds on the FC, take Gau to the MTRF to fight 024, and fight many fewer random battles. For starters.
EDIT: Someone would need to edit the avi file to make our movies sync up, but that would be amazing. This game fades to black and fades in from black often enough that it should be easy but tedious to sync our movies by adding black frames during the transitions. You could sync at the moogle battle, Edgar's intro, entering Koltz, Vargas, Ultros 1, , the scenarios and the Narshe battle naturally sync which is wicked cool, Dadaluma, the balcony scene, Ultros 2, the Magitek Factory, the esper world, the banquet, the burning house, the IAF sequence, the Solitary Island, the Tentacles, Dullahan, entering Kefka's Tower, and the movies should probably stay in sync from there.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Update: The Dragon, for whatever reason, does *not* work for the sketch glitch no matter how many times I manipulate the unknown byte at 20FF. After exiting the battle, by any means (death, victory, flee), the game fades out and never fades back in. Worse yet, the Air Force *stopped* working as well. Formation 7 is supposed to be the gold mine formation, and it worked for me before, so I'm wondering what went wrong on my latest test run. I'm afraid it has to do with Terra since she is the only thing I changed. (Remember, I do unrecorded tool-assited test runs with the turbo key just to make sure I'm not forgetting anything. Then I go back and do the same thing faster and actually manipulate pre-emptives on the battles, etc.)
Mapping a buffer overlow is the most boring computer task I've ever attempted. It's funny because I love staring at numbers and trying to find patterns and I love computer software in general, but buffer overflows just suck. Pressing: 4, ' ', A, ' ', A, 4, ' ', ' ', A, ' ', A, 4, ' ', ' ', ' ', A, ' ', A (etc) to manipulate a pre-emptive is cool. It's like doing a jigsaw puzzle to me - nope, nope, nope, yay! GOT ONE! But repeatedly testing buffer overflows kind of ruins my workflow because I usually have to restart the emulator. So now instead of tapping 4, ' ', and A repeatedly I now have to start the emulator, open the ROM, open my movie, load, press A, view the RAM and close the emulator (some of the time). Not fun or stimulating. So I'm just going to do my real run now (yay!) and just pray that the sketch command works on my real run.
The V2 run is going to be on the GBA. ;) If they keep all of the features of the PSX version and ditch that new "Lag like HECK" feature that was exclusive to that version of the game then they'll have a winner. Plus, bonus content.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Sketchie wrote:
I'm not sure if it's already mentioned, but what if you put all your guys on the back row? It should allow you to run away from battles a few frames faster than if you kept them in the front row.
And deal and recieve half physical damage, which is not what I want for everyone (before it no longer matters.) It also takes more than a few frames to put each character in the back row. By default I already place everyone in the back row who doesn't need to be in the front row. Good thinking though.
Erim and I have been talking about the WOB Flame Shlds for a long time. They'd make some important battles easier without the sketch glitch and it would be the perfect kind of OMG feat that should be in a TAS anyway. Unfortunately the random number table hates Ragnarok. The game picks three random numbers in a row when a Magicite item is used. The first is a 1-25 number that determines who shows up. Ragnarok shows up 9 times. (Just like how there are exactly 16 desperation moves.) And then the numbers that always follow Ragnarok's numbers all suck for one reason or another. :P Erim told me yesterday that this was true of BBB was well, which would make sense. But if slot determines who shows up immediately upon closing the window and leaves the command unresolved for moment then it can be manipulated.
If so, and I encounter a pair of Ninjas (that you cannot run away from!) on the FC, then I'll take a Trump for Setzer. A Flame Shld is pretty much the only thing that won't OHKO Nerapa. So both the Ninja and Nerapa would have to be 777'd, which requires two turns. A metamorph and a Flame Shld probably isn't any longer than ES+777 because of how long the animation is for ES. So the 2x Ninja battle won't end any faster. But if I get a Trump I can then take Nerapa down in one action! Plus, I get to metamorph an item that I shouldn't have yet! Or, I could wait for a desperation move for Nerapa, assuming I let the IAF or the Atma Weapon beat me up. Nah! :P How many people have ever killed Nerapa with a Trump?
Joined: 11/17/2005
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I can't believe the N64 is this old!
No one mentioned Goldeneye and Perfect Dark? I played those games both single player and multiplayer for thousands of hours combined and I've never been a huge fan of FPS games. Just those two! You can't deny that they're classics and they'll be cheap cartridges, too. Nintendo way over produced those games, at least in North America, so there are plenty to go around. I'm positive I've seen new copies of Perfect Dark for just $5 somewhat recently.
If they do a bin type of deal then make sure you look for copies of Paper Mario in the bin. Last time I checked, Gamestop was selling used copies of PM for $40. And every other N64 game, in stock or not, was going for $1-20. So basically Gamestop is saying that PM is the only rare N64 game.
I bet Gamestop is thinking about the Wii's virtual console. They probably don't want to be stuck holding used game X for $Y when people can add it to their Wii collection for ~= $Y.
Joined: 11/17/2005
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That's why I called it "Gogo's" spell list. I bet it is! Gogo only knows the spells of your other three current party members, right?
I couldn't get the sketch glitch on a Chimera to give me either a Zone Eater or Engulf, sadly. I guess I won't be doing that. It would've been spiffy though. I'll just have to settle for a ton of free game-breaking items instead. :(
Since sketching the Dragon produces the same results as sketching the Air Force I'll just use the Dragon instead. I'll take Terra, Relm, and Setzer to the FC. During the 4 IAF battles and the AF battle they'll gain 12 AP. They'll pick up 8 AP from no more than 3 battles won with JD, perform the sketch glitch, and jump. Just 8 AP from battles that I'm not forced to fight is fantastic. (Or maybe I could fight the Atma Weapon, turn around/take a step, fight a Dragon, then jump? That's a small enough optimization that I can try making it once I get there, if the RNG loves me.)
I'll rewind the Magitek Factory, teach Locke Muddle, teach Edgar as much of Vanish as possible, waste absolutely no time, steal the Rune Edge instead of the Drainer, maybe steal the Tempest, run like heck while testing a power cycle on the save point after the minecart, Cranes, run like wild until I get to Thamasa, and the run wll go like I planned from there. I've run through Kefka's Tower with a cheat code to disable random encounters just to make sure I'm not forgetting anything. I'm ready. :) I'm going to take the Debilitator from the left Crane because it'll help against the Tentacles. The DragonBoots are still going to come from an encounter from Vector to Albrook. Locke will steal and will Terra use a Smoke Bomb. Cool.
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Yup, it does use the combined spell list. Now the fewest AP that I need is technically 20, but it isn't faster to do so. I could give Terra Muddle+Imp for 20, Locke Bio+Break for 20, and Relm Slow+Mute for 15. However, Relm will still have to get her 15 AP after she joins. I also don't like that plan because Edgar won't finish learning Vanish from the required battles on the FC. I won't have Setzer to use JD, either. If I take Terra, Edgar, and Relm on the FC then I have to score all of my points during the Cave to the Sealed gate. I think I'll test the Dragon to see if using the glitch on him instead of the Air Force works just as well. If so, I'll score all of my AP on the FC with a Relm, Edgar, Setzer party. Because it's not actually the AP that needs to be saved, it's the time I take to learn it. The battles on the FC are worth 3-5 each and Setzer can JD them all. That's the fastest way to learn any amount of AP...
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A fewest number of steps run is a great idea! But make it a fewest steps + LLG so that you can't just level up to 99 on the Lete River without taking a step. Actually, use Erim's strategy to manipulate the river into giving you as few battles as possible. You might set a new record for least XP gained during any run! Erim and I are just trying to be fast but we do take a little time to power ourselves up. Earlier I said that a lvl 6 party cannot defeat number 128. :) Feel free to prive me wrong because I know it is technically possible but very difficult. Maybe you could actually use Cyan and a trio of desperation moves? Retort is magical so it can be boosted. And a level 6 Cyan who survives one hit could then use a boosted desperation move!
flagitious wrote:
I think it is possible to do the sketch bug with other spells in place of Mute, but only if the spell list is 'compressed' in certain ways so that a spell like it is in the 28th spot like MasterZed's guide says. I know there are other ways to do it because like 10 years ago when I first played the game I accidently did the sketch bug, and I know for a fact that magic order was set to 1 (because I still have the save file on the cartridge).
On page five Nitrodon figured out how the spell list arrangement works. I also looked at the subroutine myself couldn't find anything exploitable. However, I assumed that $11A0 contained the individual's list of known spells. That would be fantastic if instead this memory address was the start of Gogo's list of known spells. If this is indeed true (I'll test it tonight!) then that might save me some AP. So thank you very much for finding that!
However in order to use it I'd need to take Locke, Terra, and Relm to the FC. Relm only joins my party right before the FC and I can only take 3 people to the FC. The only mould 7 monsters available to me are the Air Force and the Dragon, so I need the magic probably prior to the FC as well. (Although I can get tons of AP on the floating continent.)
Terra's natural magic provides either 3 or 4 spells. If you take her she'll most likely reach level 12 and learn Drain. I worked it out earlier in this thread, but the fastest 10 spells, without or without Terra, always involves Mute and Break, and Break works. So although many spells can trigger the sketch glitch there is no better way to do it in the WOB than with Break. It's just a matter of wasting as little time as possible while learning the needed 6 or 10 spells.
Joined: 11/17/2005
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Both would be great! The real meat of a FF6 run is the WOB and Erim and I do that differently. Everyone's WOR is going to be fairly similar with minor deviations for their tier strategy (items/characters picked up.) But even then most characters, items, and spells are way too far out of the way to be considered. The only way Mog and his Moogle Charm could not pay off is if you do nothing else between getting the Falcon and Kefka's Tower. However, Mog knows Snare. I'm using Mog, Gogo, and Setzer as my three "Instant Death Captains." And that's basically it. On the console the WOB is mostly linear and the WOR opens the game up. But in a TAS the opposite happens. You spend all this time trying to reach the bosses in a winnable state during the WOB and then in the WOR you've got instant death attacks and a clear path to the end. Go figure. :P
If I were to give up on the sketch glitch right now this is how my run would play out:
- Blackjack and Terra obtained (where I'm at now, although I will rewind)
- Advance plot node in Narshe
- Go through the Cave to the Sealed Gate and take no treasures
- Score a Charm Bangle and rearrange my inventory during the banquet
- Locke steals a DragoonBoots while walking to Albrook with Terra
- Take the Warp Stone from the barrel that I have to walk past
- Sell everything (Atlas Armlet, 1 Earrings, Tempest) and buy 3 Ice Rods
- Fight nothing in the burning house and skip both treasures
- Everyone ST Ice Rod the Flame Eater to death
- Locke won't know Doom, so use Erim's secret Ultros 3/4 strategy
- Kill the Air Force with Joker Doom or a Flame Shld (yes! a Flame Shld)
- Joker Doom or 2xEarrings + 7-Flush the Floating Continent to death
- Saving Cid should be faster, sadly, although I will check
- (Take Sabin if the loss of Sprint Shoes + Charm Bangle is excruciating)
- Chocobo to Gerad and advance the plot
- Use the Chain Saw and Fire Shlds on the Tentacles (hopefully, 4 attacks)
- Walk to Setzer and advance the plot
- Joker Doom on Dullahan, earn the Falcon
- Hi Mog, use Warp Stone
- Hi Gogo, use Warp Stone
- Inflict no damage on anything in Kefka's Tower
- "Mimic Doom" the tiers and maybe Joker Doom Kefka with Gogo's slot
The only time anything could possibly go wrong is if I'm in Kefka's Tower and one party hits a formation that it cannot run from while the other two parties are unable to "take the battle" on another map. But even if that were to happen both Gogo and Setzer could Joker Doom the battle. And Mog can't be attacked. (Mog will be paired with Edgar, who will learn Vanish during the IAF, FC, and Dullahan.)
If I were to use the sketch glitch, I might do this:
- Go through the Cave to the Sealed Gate and earn 30 AP (double check)
- Earn 13 AP while on Thamasa Island (double check)
- Earn 4 AP from the Flame Eater (double check)
- Locke can cast Doom on Ultros 3 (and 4)
- Earn 8 total AP from the IAF sequence, Terra learns her last spell
- Use the Sketch Glitch on the Air Force and hit it with a Flame Shld
- Use Paladin Shlds and easy luck manipulation to become invincible
- Embarass the bosses like before
The thing about the sketch glitch is that the 306 Paladin Shlds, 200+ Smoke Bombs, 200+ Echo Screens, 16 Illuminas, 256 Magicite items, and 60+ Flame Shlds will help, but perhaps not to save time. With all that crap I'm guarunteed not to be stuck. However, it might be a waste of time. For example, I might be able to obtain a Flame Shld (and 4 AP!) by using Metamorph on a Chimera while I'm on Thamasa Island. If not a Chimera then a Bomb/Balloon.
Which is why I need to figure out what the sketch glitch is going to do for me right now. If I'm going to get glitched Flame Shlds in the future then I don't need the Flan's magicite and I should rewind that. If I get Moogle Charms then I'll need to test if bringing Mog on the FC for no encounters is worth it. (Remember, I have to enter Narshe to advance the plot anyway.) And if I totally break the game then... I don't know. If I can get myself inside the Zone Eater by glitching the Engulf spell into my spell list (which is possible! I got Wild Bear once!) and I can get a glitched Moogle Charm from another/same formation then I can skip all the encounters inside the Zone Eater, too.
Joined: 11/17/2005
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I haven't said so before, but I am a fan of this game too. :) But I don't know much about this game other than what I vaguely remember from the last time I played through it, which was awhile ago. I would LOVE to see a complete run of this game! Thank you for working on it.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
This isn't convenient, but this is my proceedure for testing the glitch:
1) Start the emulator
2) Load the ROM
3) Load an interesting save state
4) Take some interesting actions
5) Load the bad sprite data and perhaps try something dangerous afterwards (like executing Relm's unknown battle command)
If one of the following three things occur immediately kill the emulator without pressing another hotkey and go back to step 1.
6a) Emulator changes resolution rapidly. (Extremely unsafe.)
6b) The graphics go beyond a blackout or mangled sprites to the point where the screen is mostly blocks of solid color.
6c) The screen blacks out and the "cursor move" sound effect plays several times in a row before freezing. This one doesn't seem bad, but it is.
7) Otherwise if the result was a mere crash or infinite loop and holding turbo for 10 seconds doesn't fix the game then it is safe to reload. If Relm is stuck in an action pose then there is probably some animation that will never finish. (Back to step 3.)
8) If something interesting happens then take a save state or movie snapshot. (Back to step 3.)
I have two goals for the moment: to figure out which memory addresses I can corrupt with this glitch and to find more potential uses. I think the Zone Eater is the only formation I can benefit from encountering, if I can do it. However, I can only warp to the WOR if I encounter the Zone Eater on the Triangle Island. Since monster moulds 3, 4, and 12 are good for me to sketch against now I'd like to find a mould that gives me at least one Moogle Charm. But getting Mog just for the FC would not be worth it unless I also find that sequence breaker I've been dreaming about. I think Figaro Castle might be one way to do it. Theoretically, you could at any time walk into the basement, defeat the Tentacles, and warp to the WOR if only that pushy guy didn't physically stop you. Maybe with a camera glitch I can throw him off?
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Nitrodon wrote:
The glitched command is number 0x20 (F2 command script). It seems to load the value from $B8 (targets) into $11E0 (formation number) for some reason. It doesn't seem that you can get into formation 335, 514, or 463 this way, but you can reach a glitched weak formation 512 (tier 2). Alternatively, advancing to formation 8192 gives you just under 60k experience total.
Fantasic! I can't use the experience but it is the coolest way to safely end the sketch glitch. I did kill some of the other formations but none of them did anything useful. (I think one was Ifrit.) If only this glitched command could multitarget then I could access more formations.
Just for the sake of it, I tested the chance encounter of the three formations I mentioned. None of them do what I hoped they would do except for the Zone Eater, who works perfectly. If you encounter Kefka he appears, changes the music, boasts, dies (if you kill him), and returns you to the overworld map. Hillarious, but not useful. Doom Gaze is the same way. He sets the "Doom Gaze is dead" flag but doesn't do anything else. Both of those encounters require previous event code.
The Zone Eater however does not require setup to 'work'. Interestingly enough, if you use a Warp Stone inside of him you'll be transported to wherever you originally were. But if you step into the light you'll be transported to the Triangle Island, WOR. Now if your airship just happened to be parked there in the WOB it will be in the same place waiting for you in the WOR. If you enter it, it will be the Blackjack. (I also had the option of entering the FC!) You may change your party and buy items like before. When you resume flying you'll still be in the WOR and your airship will look like the Falcon.
I have escaped from the Intangir after a glitch before. Hopefully after enough successive castings of Imp/Slow (which is what brought this scenario about in the first place) I can cause another formation error on the Triangle Island where I can take advantage of the Zone Eater. Master Zed says not to use your lead party member for magic if you want the sketch glitch to work. I say "hillarity ensues!" :P
Erim wrote:
And Catastrophe, you could've encountered the Flan battle after Ifrit too, but you chose to encounter it before. Why, I don't know. It's not rigged. If you encounter 5 battles at Mt Koltz, and I encounter 4, I'm bound to encounter the fifth battle eventually on the way to te Hideout, if not, then during one of the scenarios.
So it is rigged. We agreed to that on AIM. If I have five encounters, and you have 4, then you're due for one really quick regardless of what your actions are. You can choose where you have it, which may alter who you fight, but the distances between each encounter are extremely predictable.
I didn't know at the time that encountering Ifrit wouldn't stop me from encountering the Flan. There are two formations of Flan and I originally wanted the 6 Flan special version to have fewer Flan attacking me. (They arrive 1, then 2, then 3 at a time.) I do know that Locke gets unequipped. I remember thinking that I was saving time back then when I did it but of course I'm not. I replied to Enhasa's comment off the top of my head. But thanks to the L and R buttons the cost of equipping a second relic is the length of half of one fade out. The "wasted" time is not that dramatic. I don't know why you'd praise me for days on AIM and then criticize me in public but I don't like it. To answer your demeaning question: "Why, I don't know" - there is a reason why my movie takes those 4 extra steps. It's a mistake. If I were doing my run to obsolete someone else's run then I wouldn't have done that either. I'm glad my strategy of stealing Magicite from Flan was useful to you too. :\ If I could incorporate your improvements into my run I would.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Enhasa wrote:
First off, my intuition was that the skip Celes trick should be used and the sketch glitch should not. Apparently I am wrong on both counts?
It's good to know people are paying attention. :) Skipping Celes can go either way. Nobody knows yet. Skipping her is definitely faster if she can be 'fixed' with the sketch glitch. Skipping her and taking Sabin in the WOR instead is probably also faster. If you look at the side-by-side run Erim is wayyyyyy faster - almost the entirety of Locke's scenario ahead! But then he stops for Celes and I catch right back up. Getting Sabin doesn't take that long. As for the sketch glitch - beats the crap outta me. I'm trying to find a sequence breaker with it that makes it undisputeably better since using it would be popular. (A sequence breaker in FF6 would be HUGE, too.)
- luck manipulation on fights... I mean how many fights you enter, not luck inside the fights. How many fights you enter looks like how a console run would look, which doesn't seem to me like a good sign.
Unpreventable. See Terii Senshi's algorithm FAQ. Notice that Erim and I frequently get into the same battles after the same number of steps even when we take different routes. The best example is in the Magitek Factory. We arrive there at different times and hit all the same random encounters up to Ifrit. I even take extra steps before Ifrit to fight a Flan whereas Erim gets the same Flan formation afterwards. It's very rigged.
- too many chests...
The RunningShoes are almost necessary for Locke to steal items, for the IAF sequence, and to speed up ES/JD or V/D combos against bosses who can't be pre-emptive. That said, I should've picked them up in Zozo. (In Terra's room.) They didn't help on Mt. Koltz or in Sabin's scenario as much as I thought they could. The Hyper Wrist was 'free' with the RunningShoes and the Atlas Armlet raises Edgar's tools damage. I *do* put the Atlas Armlet to use. As for as Earrings/HR go you only need 2, not three. I took the one on the train (fastest), the one in Narshe (2nd fastest), and the one at the Colloseum (not useful). The one in South Figaro would be 2nd fastest if you get Celes. Two Earrings will make a desperation move do 1.5x damage which can either speed up a slow battle or end a deadly battle before you get killed. The Chain Saw is a miracle. For one thing it kills 2 of the four Tentacles. With the Atlas Armlet the Chain Saw also outdamages everything else. Chain Saw + Hero Ring would do even more, but not as much as Aurabolt with two Earrings. (Two is greater than one.) But the bosses I need that damage for have a tendancy to be occasionally immune to pearl-type damage. However, nothing is immune to a Chain Saw. ;)
- too many won fights... I could be missing something, but why beat up all those regular enemies?
Your level is one of the many multipliers for the damage you do. Your level also boosts your HP and your MP. Characters who aren't at least level 8 are totally worthless. LLG players use re-records, sure, but they also go out of they way for hours to power themselves up. Two Earrings is the most I have time to do for my characters. I don't raise gold on the Veldt to buy the best equipment and I don't complete my spell list either. If you enter the Number 128 battle with a level 8 team and no Earrings you will lose. He has 3 parts and you have 3 characters. Level 8 HP gives you just barely enough to survive one hit, maybe. You might have to waste time healing. Erim and I both (independantly) figured out that L10 is the place to be. The only battle I regret was that one lone leafer that I mentioned earlier. Mister "Boss Fish" appears when two conditions have been met: when his friends are dead, and when a minute has passed. Otherwise more friends appear. I pointed this out too.
As for Erim's run, I also equip two Sprint Shoes. Your party splits up later and by equipping several pairs now I can save the trouble of equipping them later. (Saves a couple seconds.) Erim's Returner's Hideout strategy is a secret to him (and me) until he wants to post it. Obviously, he was manipulating something. ;) I guess you missed all the critical hits in my run? I use the Chain Saw and Aurabolt instead of fight whenever possible, since I have them. The only time I pass up a critical hit is in Zozo when I'm fighting Dadaluma. I intentionally take 195 frames longer to punch the boss for exactly 69 damage. :) It's on the first page.
EDIT: fixed omitted words that made my sentences hard to read
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
DeHackEd wrote:
Is it possible to have the sketch bug modify Kutan to make her more useful? I seem to recall you said you could glitch some Sprint Shoes onto her... any chance of giving her some useful battle commands? (Or a weapon?)
Battle commands won't stick unless I somehow manage to blast memory in the area of $1600. No matter what happens during the overflow I've never seen values that early changed. $1600 is character names, stats, equipment, etc. After $1800 and $1900 is your inventory. At about $1A00 are your character's spells. The corruption usually starts at $2000. The reason the items stick is because changes to your in-battle backpack are copied to your permanent backpack. The same goes for changes to items in a player's left and right hands. Currently I can only put a Phenix Down in Kutan's left hand. But if I keep at it I do think that Sprint Shoes and the Moogle Charm will work no matter which slot they're equipped in.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1123/sketchGlitch3.smvhttp://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1124/sketchGlitch4.smvhttp://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1125/sketchGlitch5.smv
(If a desync occurs use 7E3BFE+F = 0 and 7E1730 = 1. You shouldn't have to though.)
Formation mould number 4 doesn't freeze if you use it against the right monster! Here Relm's battle commands were overwritten with garbage. I'm still trying to find out why, but her second command causes the "advance to next tier" subroutine to load! The formation number that is loaded is formation 4: the Marshal boss battle from the Moggle scene. If I win, I go back to the world map. What I would like instead is to summon formations 335 (Zone Eater), 514 (End Boss), or 463 (Doom Gaze) because those monsters all have effects on death that force a bit of event code to run. If I got sucked into the Zone Eater I don't think I'd loose my airship or all my characters, either. That only happens when you jump from the floating continent...