Posts for Catastrophe

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Post subject: Re: Tool Assisted Exploit Search - JP ROM
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keylie wrote:
Catastrophe wrote:
But if a spreadsheet existed that listed each combination of (weapon id) : (list of addresses changed) then FF6 nerds everywhere could pick through the data and look for exploits.
What I can do at least is, for each weapon, to which address is the game wrongly jumping and which function this address is in (for documented functions at least). It might give a clue if this weapon can lead to an exploit or not.
That would make sense and be useful, but come to think of it does a semi-documented disassembly exist of the Japanese version? I'm sure most of it is the same besides being moved around, but obviously that matters. Although without ANY knowledge I could at least scan the potential list for jumps which don't return quickly. So if I notice that the X-Potion returns after two instructions but the Genji Helm seems to run for awhile over many branches before potentially returning then I can aimlessly test the Genji Helm for corruption. If I see corruption in the 7E2000-7E3FFF range then I'll figure out with a watch what those memory addresses are for. (Hopefully something useful.)
Catastrophe wrote:
EDIT: RAM map for reference. Check the theoretical spreadsheet against this, then look for exploits related to the description of that RAM address.
Beware, almost all the addresses $2xxx are wrong. The author confused $2xxx (RAM address, $7E2xxx) and $002xxx which holds PPU and other stuff.
gaaaahh. Thank you. Although again, different ROM, so I may have to re-solve the purpose of 7E2xxx anyway. But that's something I know how to do.
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Stars moons trophies et cetera! I love everything about this run! I've been following it since the WIPs Real-time action games generally make for better TASes than menu-based games. But as far as RPGs go this run has everything. Here's a list (maybe incomplete) of bosses that have new strats: Number024 (route change), Leo Vs Kefka, Inferno and Poltrgeist, running from Ifrit/Shiva (new to the TAS), and the final battle. And all along other things are being broken or improved, like the Celes skip, the Narshe battle, and the triple Moogle Charm. It's not at all as if the route is "follow the speed run, but with lower levels and insane luck manipulation to compensate". I think different characters are used. Even the sketch glitch is done in a TAS-only way. I think the only stretch of game where something different/interesting doesn't happen is the opera scene. Also, the sketch glitch mapping was an outstanding technical achievement. If we still voted separately for technical achievement and entertainment then the technical score has to be 10/10.
Finally, I would have loved to finish the game escaping from Tier 1 using Engulf, stop the timer at the fadeout just as we do in the speedrun of the game and loop back to Zone Eater's belly, getting again to Kefka's tower and loop back again and again during tier 1. Unfortunately, we have proved that it is not possible to do so.
Would've been great! haha. So what goes wrong with that plan? Do the credits just start anyways? Or does it hang?
Post subject: Tool Assisted Exploit Search - JP ROM
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I have an idea for a process that might result in the discovery of an exploit in the JP version, but I don't know how to implement it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the fun started when Kadamony made the spreadsheet tool. Originally I think Keylie was going to make a run featuring the airship glitch. But it was the super-optimization of the sketch glitch that led to skipping even the Floating Continent and also getting Moogle Charms on everyone. We've seen what the Goggles Glitch can do, and I think the Equip Anything glitch should lead to a big exploit at the start of the game. The Goggles themselves have a different effect in the JP version but there are still bad animations being played and bad sprites being drawn. The question is, what is going on? I've tested every item from 5A-FE multiple times over the years but I've never known what to look for. The Goggles Glitch for example also requires specific timing. I could've been close to finding it and not known it. What if attacking with a TortoiseShld causes monster 5's common steal to change into a Charm Bangle? What if attacking with a Potion sets the Engulf bit for ally 4 only? If I'm testing against a Leafer then I'll never notice. I can't watch every known address at once. But if a spreadsheet existed that listed each combination of (weapon id) : (list of addresses changed) then FF6 nerds everywhere could pick through the data and look for exploits. It would be a lot of data to look at, but we're good at it. And tests would need to be done. For example sketching the Intangir has always crashed the game with 100% reliability. But the spreadsheet led me to test one specific high-payoff possibility anyway, and the result was a miracle. Likewise some theoretically easy sketches actually softlocked the game. (Like so many outcomes involving the Moogle Charm, doh!) I think this procedure might produce a good spreadsheet? 1) Play the game normally until Terra is alone in the cave. 2) Empty her hands. Get into a preemptive battle. Save state 'alpha'. 3) For each value 5A-FE: -- poke it into Terra's L-Hand -- save state 'beta' -- attack, wait 10 whole seconds -- stave state 'gamma' -- binary diff 'beta' with 'gamma', and save all changes from 7E2000-7E3FFF -- load state 'alpha' Some variations in the initial state unfortunately probably matter: is the attack mirrored from the left side, what else might be in the R-hand, and potentially the position/size of the enemy. But at least to begin this should identify the dangerous items to attack with. I'd be shocked if there isn't at least one. EDIT: RAM map for reference. Check the theoretical spreadsheet against this, then look for exploits related to the description of that RAM address.
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jlun2 wrote:
If this gets accepted, I don't think it should obsolete the current TAS due to reasons stated here. I know its the same author for this particular TAS, but this can potentially be applied to other games as well.
In the case of submission 3389 (Pokemon Yellow) the new submission was merely a resynch. Masterjun even said that the strategy was the same. He just re-executed the same run on a more accurate emulator. He did no original work. In this submission the route and strategy has changed. The core of the argument is that emulator accuracy has affected the route. Emulator-specific glitches have been banned from Super Metroid and Kirby Superstar where the glitch was only possible because of an emulator fault. This submission is passively saying that most reset button use is inaccurate or at least inaccurately timed. And that if the current TAS were subjected to fair resets that this run would beat it. (I don't know what a fair reset is, but magically zeroing out all the RAM in one frame is unfair.)
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I think the ending is fine because it is reached normally. Examples of endings that have been rejected by tasvideos: - Super Mario World, using ACE to draw the final image of "The End" and then ending the program. No, you must either kill Bowser or jump to the parade. - A Boy and His Blob, literally walking to the credits and ending input. Because the credits in this game appear to be implemented as a map it is possible to display them by walking out of bounds. But again, no, you must trigger the ending sequence. Endings that are acceptable: - Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow, using memory corruption to flag the final boss as already dead. Entering the final screen instantly begins the credits. - Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins, an older run used memory corruption to begin the ending by starting a level with a specific ID. The ending was glitched, but otherwise legit. - Dragon View: what is even going on? But the submission text says that the ending is not correctly displayed and doesn't finish. This submission seems to be the most like FF6. The FF6 credits are about 30 minutes long and they still play almost entirely in keylie's TAS. The part where it hangs is close to the end of the end. But more importantly the final boss is fought (and 'beaten' by running away) and the legit credits trigger normally.
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No one's talking about the Inferno skip or the conveyor belt climb? I was surprised! Sketching the Zone Eater causes the "landing on Kefka's Tower" cutscene to play very late. But I guess it must be the fastest way to get Moogle Charms. It seems like it beats 8 rounds of messing around with Tincture/Imp.
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It's now a three-dimensional spreadsheet! Memory address, contents, and time. Could any non-Triangle Island formation ever be worth it though? Say for example the Moogle Charm from formation 11 worked out. Would it be worth it to fly over there, get the Moogle Charm, and then fly over to the Triangle Island? Especially if the TAS magic route involves even a single Intangir there's just no way. I started looking at the new ways to cast Engulf that the new spreadsheet shows. And then I realized, duh, getting Engulfed outside of the Triangle Island is useless. And the Intangir already provides a fast "Engulf" that doesn't play the Engulf animation 3 times. (Also, summoning the Zone Eater outside of the Triangle Island would be an accomplishment, but it would also get you stuck.) Leo using Flame Shlds is pretty sweet though! That could save a whole minute!
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Sometimes we accept runs which are technical improvements, but slower, due to correctly emulated lag. I think TheAxeMan is making an academic case that this run is similar to a "slower improvement". Except instead of lag frames, he's blaming the cold RAM and inaccurately emulated resets for the time difference. I agree. The author says that this run should be a new category and that it isn't meant to obsolete the current run. He's being modest. We wouldn't make new categories for "Takes advantage of emulator inaccuracies" or "Breaks the rule and starts from a save state", right? Awhile ago a rule was made to require all runs to start from power on, not a save state. I think we should also require special games like FF to start from zero RAM too. At least for the NES. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Off Topic, doesn't matter: - His robot can't press reset. - How important console verification is. - Theoretical discussion about NES starting states. Eventually the circuit boards will fade and the copper atoms will decompose in hydrogen or something.
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Good luck once again with the route planning after Vector! Although you've got to redo all of the "mechanical" parts of the game first. (Locke's Scenario, Terra's Scenario, Zozo, and Jidoor.) That's no fun.
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I was just thinking about how the Sleeping Bag could save you 8 seconds and you posted that! Obviously that's not it and you're going to save 8 more seconds somewhere else too! :) I can't think of it. You probably don't want it for its 0xFD item id. So you must be using it to prevent a game over somewhere? Or maybe for the mp refill? I can't wait for that WIP.
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keylie knows this, but if anyone following this run is wondering why the Marshall kind of has to get a turn in, but the 2x Lobo don't... First off there are only 16 "ways" to start a battle. I'm referring the preemptive / side status (if allowed) and the initial ATB gauges. This is due to a frame rule in the pixelation animation. In the Whelk battle we saw the shell's initial ATB being manipulated favorably so that the head never got a chance to hide. The same could be done to the Marshall so that he dies before he gets his first turn. Then the Lobos could be manipulated in-battle such that the RNG chooses "nothing, nothing" for them. That would give us the fastest possible battle. Each time the enemy attacks it costs about 30 frames. In keylie's run two enemy attacks happen. But each manipulation costs time. Each of the 16 ATB possibilities are reached by waiting n*16 frames before initiating the battle. (This battle might be special because it is initiated with the A button.) So if manipulating the Marshall's ATB doesn't just fall into place with 0-1 delays then it's not worth it to try. And with the Lobos you need a character ready to act who can sit in the item menu for 1-10 frames. Again pretty much just to save 20 frames. So although keylie's Marshall battle isn't perfect, it might be the best possible given the RNG. Also even if 10-30 frames could be saved in the Marshall fight, forget about it. This game does not hex edit or splice at all. He'd have to redo an excellent Mt Koltz and he said he's in the Lete River. And future runs might have the RNG in a different spot before starting that battle anyway.
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Looks good so far. I checked out the Lobo's battle script and it looks like this:
    If random ally's level is >= 7 (random if multiple) Battle / Special / Nothing Special / Nothing / Nothing EndIf and Reset Targets Battle End turn loop script
Which can't be correct. The way to interpret this "if anyone's level is >= 7, attack them 0-2 times, then hit an unrelated (potentially the same) random target with fight". But I never see the Lobo taking triple turns. Nor does the level targeting thing seem to work. (FF3usME might be incorrect.) What the Lobo seems to be doing instead is:
    Battle / Special / Nothing Special / Nothing / Nothing End turn Battle End turn loop script
So it's no mystery why you were able to skip the Lobo's turn by attacking on a specific frame. The attack script choose nothing twice and returned. However, in your WIP one of the Lobos does attack. (And so does the Marshall, but that sort of can't be helped.) Theoretically a boss battle in which none of them get a turn is possible. Mt. Koltz was solid. I assume you need all the xp for something? Or just getting Terra to level 12 for the magic route? If you're willing to fight encounters now then maybe grab the ThunderRod early? You've got Edgar and I noticed that you were already xbow'ing all those 3x Crawly formations. Cons: no sprint shoes for those ~50 steps. Pros: you seem to be wanting the xp for something and it makes Locke's scenario faster.
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I was entertained, and I couldn't figure out why. That was a lot of Q*Bert to sit through. I didn't think I'd watch it all. Maybe it's because, just as the initial concept starts to get old (8 minutes or so) the levels speed up? The levels take much less time as the run progresses despite needing more jumps.
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keylie wrote:
Catastrophe wrote:
Any progress on the TAS? I don't think the SG can be improved further unless a better exploit is found.
Hey! I was on vacation. The TAS is currently before the Mog fight in Narshe. The Intangir SG is good news! On Bizhawk 1.7.0, the freezing takes 1-2 minutes. We still have to compute if it's faster than Engulf, because of the extra freezing and the longer magic route. The 312 setup really sucks to get :(
Yeah it does suck to get Remedy. And the TAS can manipulate Muddle with haste. I don't envy testing that. I'll give BizHawk a try and watch your WIP! I'm looking forward to it. Glad to hear you're back.
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Leave party slot 4 vacant. Yeah, that ruins the route. It adds one more Intangir. - After Thamasa swap Strago for Setzer like you normally do. - Manipulate and kill two Intangirs for the magic route. - Fight the next random battle (Leafer) and sketch 3FA. -- Put Goggles into the L-Hand of Terra and Relm before escaping. - Optimum Setzer and he should get a Moogle Charm on his helmet. - Ditch Setzer on the airship. Land to the right of the forest. - Manipulate another Intangir and sketch 312. -- Put the (previously carefully placed) Moogle Charm on Terra and Locke. Setzer comes equipped with a Bandana as standard equipment - but he can't use it! The first sketch should give you no helmets. Therefore the Moogle Charm goes straight onto Setzer's head, no problem. If you do have spare helmets for some reason then earlier in your route during some "free time" move them into an item slot that will be overwritten by the SG. Two Intangirs isn't the worst. They can potentially be fought back-to-back with a single manipulation. (Unlike three, which would be bad.) Unicorn - 34 AP for Locke - 18 carts*, 2 banquet*, 4 Flame Eater, 10 Intangir Siren - 15 AP for Locke - 4 Number024, 1 banquet*, 10 Intangir Shoat - 13 AP for Terra** - 4 Flame Eater, 10 Intangir Stray - 20 AP for Relm - 20 Intangir * Either manipulate the carts AND fiddle with menus during the banquet sequence, or, accidentally fight something in the burning house. ** Do not let Terra reach 20 AP! When switching Unicorn for Siren, take Shoat off.
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Oh that makes sense with what I've seen. Thank you. We get "0x Flame Shld" from the second sketch so hopefully no one dies from Atomic Ray anymore. (Unassisted.) Plus the Marvel Shoes. Any progress on the TAS? I don't think the SG can be improved further unless a better exploit is found.
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I'm glad I spent all that time on route planning. Because sketching an Intangir with setup 312 puts you into the Zone Eater after a 2-3 minute delay. The dual 3xx/61xx setup isn't needed anymore. So use the pure 3xx setup.
Fire Ice Bolt Poison Drain Fire2 Ice2 Bolt2 Bio (snip) Scan Slow Rasp Mute Safe Sleep Muddle Haste Stop Bserk Float Imp (snip) Cure Cure2 Cure3 Life Life2 Antdot Remedy Regen Life3 This requires: - Unicorn 3x for Remedy. 34 AP - Siren x7 for Sleep, Mute, and Slow. 15 AP - Stray x5 for Muddle and Imp. 20 AP - Shoat x8 for just Bio. 13 AP - Terra's natural magic. It can be done with just one Intangir, too: - Unicorn - Locke - 17 from mtek escape, 3 from Vector, 4 from house, +10 = 34 - Stray - Edgar - 17 from mtek escape, 4 from Number024 = 20 - Siren - Terra - 3 from Vector, 4 from Flame Eater, +10 = 17 - Shoat - Edgar - 3 banquet, +10 = 13
Using four party members is no problem since there is no more Engulf. Terra still needs to learn Drain naturally though. First put your Goggles into slot 184. Then get into a grass encounter and sketch 3FA. Equip the Goggles to the R-Hands of everyone except Locke. Then run. Arrange your inventory to make the Moogle Charms appear. (The second sketch will overwrite slot 255 again.) Now move the Moogle Charm into slot 184. Encounter an Intangir, set up 312, and sketch. Relm will be frozen for 2 minutes but during this time each of the other three characters can mess with the item menu. Put the Moogle Charm on everyone except Relm. The battle will automatically end. Edgar, Terra, and Relm all have Goggles. Locke, Terra, and Edgar now also have Moogle Charms. Pick up a Force Shld in Kefka's Tower and put it in Relm's L-Hand. Some of the bosses in Kefka's Tower seem to "reflect" BabaBreath. That's super weird and I have no idea what that's all about. But which character gets exiled seems to depend on which enemy slot you target. So it's consistent at least and I think you can plan on who gets punted.
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Yeah, that's the problem I had when I made the first edit. I think your suggestion will work. I'm trying it now but it's taking a lot of luck manipulation. Also, how do you get the Gem Box in the Japanese version? EDIT: Yes! The Black Belt does work. But it needs all of the following to happen: - Terra enters with the Gem Box equipped. - Relm enters with Goggles, Phantom, and a Black Belt equipped. - Both members need Muddle. 1) Terra casts Muddle, Muddle, on Relm while Relm casts Phantom. 2) Set up the 3A9 SG and execute it. 3) Replace the darts in Relm's right hand with the Minerva (closest invalid thing). 4) Move the useable Black Belt to the top of your inventory. * dumb luck time* 5) Relm confirms Muddle on Terra. 6) With Terra's cursor over X-Magic, one of the enemies must hit Relm. 7) Relm must counter. Enter the merged menu. * end dumb luck time* * very quickly * 8) While the Muddle animation is playing scroll down 6 rows then up to the top. 9) Mash A as fast as possible to confirm both Engulfs (any targets). * end very quickly * * get lucky * 10) No enemies disrupt Terra. 11) Terra Engulfs Relm first. There's kind of no way to recover if the luck goes bad or if the enemies don't attack. I can watch memory and confirm step 5 when the enemy ATB gauges are full, but you kind of have to "feel it" unassisted. There might be a better way or at least a way where you can just try again if it fails. I'll look for some boring 41FF setups that work. EDITga: Solved it. When doing the 61EE sketch the "himsham" spell to the left of " la " is actually Lv 3 Muddle. Terra is level 12 because I used her natural magic Drain as part of the setup. So even when targeting is disabled she can solo Muddle+Engulf. It's still a coin flip if she eats herself first.
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Doh. A Gem Box equipped mid-battle does not grant X-Magic. I was trying to avoid sketching three times. So for the TAS my crazy luck manipulation with haste setup from July 27th will work. For unassisted runs three sketches will be needed: 1) Sketch mould 0 3FA for Tinctures and a Gem Box or mould 1 3A9 just to get a Gem Box. Run, and equip it to the leader's relic slot. 2) Sketch mould 1 3FA for the previously mentioned Moogle Charm and equip the Goggles to character three's L-hand. 3) Sketch mould 1 3A9 in the forest like I just described. The Goggles and the Moogle Charm are both "shields" (or "not weapons", whatever is going on) and so they can't be equipped simultaneously. This is how the equipment will look: Leader, Locke: (replaced) (replaced) -> (leave it) Moogle Charm Edgar: (replaced) (blank) -> (leave it) Moogle Charm Terra: (replaced) Goggles -> (anything abnormal) Goggles Relm: (replaced) (blank) -> (leave it) Moogle Charm But this leaves only one Goggles wielder. Plus Setzer that leaves only two ways to insta kill things in Kefka's Domain. Grabbing Gogo is a lot faster with the Moogle Charm so I guess do that? Echo Screen/JD is more comfortable to do unassisted anyway. EDIT: cancel everything. When I use the Gem Box to cast the Black Belt twice, it auto-retargets the enemies. This can be circumvented with a Muddle spell, but you still need someone to attack with Goggles. So I can't get the last two people through. I think the dual 3FA / 61EE setup must be used. The TAS will use crazy luck manipulation to do it in two sketches while the unassisted run needs a Gem Box first. (And more Intangirs.) EDIT2: Oh wait, the unassisted run is done on the JP rom and can't sketch, right? I'm going to go outside, then I'll come back and mess around with the Cursed Shld. Maybe I can equip it, lock in two Engulf casts, and eat both people. Hopefully because of the weirdness of the menu merge equipping the Cursed Shld doesn't immediately punt me out of the menu.
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Oh, duh. >_< Sometimes I need the obvious stuff pointed out. I somehow discovered that the targeting restriction is lifted when sketching 3A9, but only in the forest! And the resulting Black Belt in slot 184 is freely aimable. I think this is now fastest for both the TAS and a realtime run: 1) Spell setup designed to put Remedy into position 28. I can do everything with 3xx. Fire Ice Bolt Poison Drain Fire2 Ice2 Bolt2 Bio (snip) Scan Slow Rasp Mute Safe Sleep Muddle Haste Stop Bserk Float Imp (snip) Cure Cure2 Cure3 Life Life2 Antdot Remedy Regen Life3 This requires: - Unicorn 3x for Remedy. 34 AP - Siren x7 for Sleep, Mute, and Slow. 15 AP - Stray x5 for Muddle and Imp. 20 AP - Shoat x8 for just Bio. 13 AP - Terra's natural magic. It can be done with just one Intangir, too: - Unicorn - Locke - 17 from mtek escape, 3 from Vector, 4 from house, +10 = 34 - Stray - Edgar - 17 from mtek escape, 4 from Number024 = 20 - Siren - Terra - 3 from Vector, 4 from Flame Eater, +10 = 17 - Shoat - Edgar - 3 banquet, +10 = 13 This means that your party must be Locke, Terra, Edgar, Relm when you perform the Sketch Glitch. (And replace Relm with Setzer when you kill the Intangir.) 2) Set up 3FA, like before. Have Edgar cast Imp on Locke and other characters can use Green Cherries, Tincture, etc. Equip Phantom on Terra and use Edgar's Muddle to vanish the enemy. Sketch. Equip the Goggles which you previously placed in slot 184 to the L-hands of Terra, Edgar, and Relm. Run. Even though the Moogle Charm is in slot 255, arrange your inventory. Then move the Moogle Charm to slot 184. 3) Get into another encounter in the forest. This time set up 3A9 and sketch. - Move the Moogle Charm up a slot to 183. - Move the (new) Gem Box in slot 185 up a slot to 184. - Sketch again. - Exchange the Black Belt with the Gem Box. Equip the Gem Box to Locke. - Sketch again. - Equip the Moogle Charms to the R-hands of at least 3 people. - Have one of the Moogle Charm / Googles dual wielders attack and set up the Goggles glitch. Have Locke use Engulf on the other two people. - Do it again, having Locke Engulf himself last. When I X-Magic'd the Black Belt I could freely aim it at my allies. So I could eat two party members at a time. Munch munch munch! If this works you'll be in the Zone Eater and your party will have the Moogle Charm active immediately. This eliminates a slim chance of an unescapable encounter on your way to the exit. It also saves all that time going to the airship, changing your party members twice, and selling equipment.
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Another way to do the Goggles glitch besides using a shield is to put two invalid items on someone. You should attack with both. So if you can't wait until after the battle is over to equip a shield then probably there's one dumb piece of junk from your sketch attempt that fits into whoever's L-hand. It also kind of makes the timing easier. How are you going to get everyone Engulfed using the Black Belt method? Because regardless of the spell's targets it seems to always only suck up (and flag) one player or enemy. The only way I can think of to get the last person to cast Engulf is with mimic, and obviously there's a problem there. I had given up on encounter manipulation for TASes but for this it might be worth looking into. Even like, the Floating Continent, where I could both manipulate away the dreaded Ninjas and ensure myself the most possible steps before the first encounter, it just wasn't worth it. The save and load process takes too long. Since the TAS can dispatch the lone ghost with 200 hp pretty quickly it's not immediately obvious which is faster. Something which I now think beats both of those is actually fighting the flames in the burning house. They're worth 2 AP and Strago can wipe them out with Aqua Rake. Terra will have Shiva equipped (for the setup) and can also cast Ice. Because part of the problem with grinding extra AP is wasting all those steps to get into the next battle. That's three things to test. Unassisted though the Intangir definitely beats the Phantom Forest.
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Oh I was overthinking it. I saved, named Celes, ran the same route you did to the nearest soldier, 'died', 'respawned', glitched outside, and went to go find a random encounter to kill myself on. I wasn't thinking of the soldier death as a death so I wasn't sure what was going on. I thought you were describing something more like the airship glitch where you have to die for real. (Nevermind.) I just finished a test run and my workaround for the targeting problem during the 61EE sketch was ridiculous. - Put MarvelShoes on Terra and Relm. (Thanks to the previous glitch.) - Put Phantom on Terra. (My Relm learned Muddle/Imp while Terra learned Ice 2.) - Encounter a lone Leafer. - Terra casts Slow on the Leafer. - Relm confirms Muddle on Terra. Terra confirms Phantom. Muddle does not miss. - (Terra should hit herself within the next few moves.) - Imp Terra. - Use any mp restoring item on Terra. - Use another mp restoring item on Terra. - Imp Terra twice more. - Use two more mp restoring items on Terra. *deep breath* - Muddle Terra. Now Terra must remain Muddled for the rest of the fight. - Terra, don't be bad. - Relm uses Sketch. Terra's Engulf spell is castable despite Imp status. - Super duper randomly, Terra chooses to Engulf Relm before Engulfing herself. The TAS can do this. It took me a few hours of saving, reloading, advancing one frame, and pressing 'A', but I got there. The luck is insane but the correct random numbers are thankfully present in the right order in the RNG table. For an unassisted run, I'll get back to you later. :x Other things I figured out during my test run: - The X-Potion can be had from the Imperial Palace for no loss. (Gotta talk to soldiers.) - I need 8 MP restorative items such as Elixir, Tincture, or Ether. Hopefully they're all on the way. Just 4 is okay though because more can be bought while selling items on the airship for just a few seconds. (This is while you're equipping the Moogle Charms.) The cost of buying 4 more Tinctures is so slow that it might not even be worth it to steal 4. (Steal one, maybe.) - Using BabaBreath on Inferno/Striker/Rough has a strange result. First, he doesn't go flying offscreen. Second, the character in the same slot as the enemy slot you targeted goes flying instead! This person is removed from your party entirely. One team in Kefka's tower can have 4 members so make it team #2. - You can actually play 2/3rds of Kefka's Tower with the camera broken if you're willing to tolerate the invisible walls that your characters sometimes leave behind. But the save and reload can't be skipped. Even if you could reach all 3 final switches then the credits would hang. - I chose to grind my AP in the Phantom Forest. The common enemy there is a lone Ghost with just 226 hp. And yet somehow this formation is worth 3 AP? Almost nothing else before the FC is worth 2, nevermind 3. - Spells are collapsed per-party. This means that Terra doesn't need to learn Muddle/Imp from Stray since Relm learns those while Terra learns Ice 2.
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Oh. It was new to me! Neither of the TASes ran from the espers. I don't understand the naming Celes and dying trick? I just tried it during Locke's scenario and her name appeared as Kutan when the TunnelArmr attacked.
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
I started looking into using the Black Belt to cast Engulf because I wanted to skip the IAF and Floating Continent completely. But that requires either mould 1 or mould 3 to cooperate. Mould 3 crashes because the Intangir can't be fought except from the front. (It's a formation restriction.) So that leaves mould 1. According to the glorious spreadsheet there are only three ways to get Engulf directly from mould 1: 4D4 - get Quake, Merton, or W.Wind into position. (lol no) 2923 - get Haste 2 into position. (I don't think this is even possible?) 61EE - get some basic black magic into position. So I tried 61EE, and it crashed. Then I started experimenting with the Goggles + Black Belt plan because it seemed like it should work. But I couldn't solve the important planning issue of getting the last ally engulfed. If someone can figure out how then that would apply to the console runs. Finally I tried 61EE again, this time on the Triangle Island. And it worked! When I started working on the mini-route from Thamasa to the Triangle Island I ran into problems like "that's too many Dirks to sell", "sketching again erases the Moogle Charm in slot 255", and "oops my Goggles are gone". But I think I solved everything. To make sure Relm doesn't lose Muddle put her in slot 3 back during step 11. The Muscle Belt would cast Sneeze, if you could. Kind of funny that it's another belt. I thought about using Celes for the TAS because her natural magic is a bit better than Terra's. Celes learns Ice 2 naturally and Ice 2 is the spell I'm using to set up the SG. Celes would need less AP, but more XP. However XP is much faster to grind! But then I remembered the plot. Neither Terra nor Celes are available for the Mtek escape and Celes isn't available until after the FC appears. Since Terra can pick up at least a little bit of AP during the burning house she has an advantage. A console run however would probably want Celes because the TunnelArmr would be pretty hard otherwise. (I think you take the ThundrRod, kill the TunnelArmr by dumb luck, and use the ThundrRod on Number024.) The thing that kills Kutan for the console run is the lack of Sprint Shoes for the WoR. But if the menu merge version of Engulf can be made to work then maybe. EDIT: Thanks LCC! By the way you can just run away from Ifrit and Shiva. Start running as they're swapping places. I did it with Kutan just fine. All you need to do to trigger the swap is hit Ifrit 5 times. Damage doesn't matter.
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
I think I have it! 1) Put Terra in the lead with a single-target, default-ally spell in the 28th slot. (Antdot) 2) Put Relm, Edgar, and Locke in the party too. 3) Move a pair of Goggles into the 184th slot. 4) Fly to the Triangle Island and encounter Leafers and/or Dark Winds. 5) Setup "03FA" through shenanigans then sketch and miss. 6) Equip the Goggles on everyone except Terra. (You may move it up in the list.) 7) Run and get on the airship, which will be exploding. You will be invisible too. 8) Change party members for Gau, Cyan, and Sabin. 9) Sell all weapons for Cyan and Sabin. 10) Optimum to equip the Moogle Charm on Gau, Cyan, and Sabin. 11) Change party members for just Terra and Relm. 12) Rearrange your spells such that the aiming byte is 0x61. (Fire, Ice2) 13) Land the airship and encounter Leafers and/or Dark Winds. 14) Setup "61EE" through shenanigans. 15) Switch Relm's items so that the Goggles are in her L-Hand. 16) Sketch and miss. 17) Have Terra use Engulf, but quickly have Relm cast Muddle. 18) Manipulate Terra engulfing Relm, the enemy missing, and Terra engulfing herself. You've now got 3 people with Goggles (Relm, Edgar, and Locke) and 3 people with Moogle Charms. Walk out of the Zone Eater, save and reload, and go beat the game. The spell list which enables this is: Scan Slow Rasp (7x Siren) Mute Safe Sleep (8/10x Siren) Muddle Haste Stop (7x Stray) Bserk Float Imp (5x Stray) Cure Cure2 Cure3 (natural magic) Life Life2 Antdot (natural magic) Remedy Regen Life 3 (Unicorn x3 or Sraphim x4) Fire Ice Bolt (natural magic, Shiva) Poison Drain Fire2 (natural magic) Ice 2 Bolt2 Bio (Shiva x5 - do not learn Osmose!) Then you can set your magic order grey/black/white for 3xx setups or grey/white/black for 61xx setups. For the longest time step 14 was "Move your Black Belt into slot 184" but I just couldn't find a way to Engulf everyone. When sketching against mould 1 you can always get Engulf anytime you want by moving a Black Belt into slot 184 and doing both glitches. If someone can think of how to get everyone Engulfed then it would save a lot of time. Quick doesn't work. (Step 18 isn't practical in a console run. So just sketch again before hand to be prepared with a Gem Box.)
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