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Post subject: LADX 100% WIP (end of dungeon 3)
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Update for Link's Awakening 100% TAS (to the end of dungeon 3): http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1243562421/LADX%20100%25.vbm I don't think I'm going to be incorporating the new rupee trick because it would require a lot of redoing, and I don't really want to delay this any further. It does, however, still use the older trick of buying the bombs before the rupees for the shovel have finished counting down (as I mentioned in my post on the previous page). When getting the first golden leaf, I discovered that the pit enemy's "underground" location is fixed near the top left section of the screen, and more importantly that you can shoot him there even though he's underground! In dungeon 3, there were some minor improvements compared to the published any% TAS probably totaling a few seconds at least (the dungeon 3 route is exactly the same, so the times/strategies are directly comparable).
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I think unpublishing is a tricky thing to do because it removes the "security" people get for their work once their movie is published. It would be really disappointing/frustrating to have a movie published (i.e. judged to be a quality addition to this site) and later removed. I don't think this would happen to very many movies even if it were done, but the threat would be there, especially for movies that are borderline on entertainment. I would be fine with certain runs being unpublished (such as the 1-track runs mentioned earlier), but only as a special case. If unpublishing were to be put in practice in general, I would only agree to it if the four conditions put forward by adelikat were used (great suggestions, by the way). Otherwise, I would be against it.
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Very nice TAS! While making my own version of this (the currently published run), I had wondered if things like boss manipulation could potentially be improved. I wasn't expecting this many other optimizations, though - I'm very impressed that you were able to squeeze frames in so many places (e.g. I though most of the bow-wow bouncing in the previous TAS was perfect). I also thought your boss battle was quite entertaining, which was good to see. I suppose it's only fair that you obsolete my run after I obsoleted yours :) I'm giving this a yes vote.
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Okay, I've finally gotten around to working on LADX again. I'm currently working with Tompa on a 100% TAS, since we decided that a v3 of the any% TAS would look too similar unless some new trick was discovered. Here's a WIP of the 100% TAS that completes dungeon 2. There are a lot of small optimizations and new tricks that I may describe later at the Link's Awakening Tricks page, but here's a partial list of the new tricks used: -Cornerboosting, saves 1-2 frames per corner -U/D+shield used to bounce off of enemies and bounce across pits (a great example is bouncing across the pit before the tail key, replacing the damage-boosting trick used in the any% TAS) -U/D+sword slashes to reach odd places on the screen (such as in the cave before the tail key, right at the beginning) Also coming up is a trick to save rupees; if you buy an item in the shop, then quickly buy another item before the rupee counter has a chance to count down, you can buy the item for "free". Example: Link has 200 rupees, but needs to buy both the shovel and bombs (total of 210 rupees required). If you buy the shovel, then quickly buy the bombs, you will end up with both items and 0 rupees at the end, even though you technically bought 10 extra rupees' worth of items. I wanted to post some progress for the benefit of anybody who is interested, and in the hopes that people might discover new tricks that would be useful for the TAS.
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Wow, this is a really great TAS! I can't understand how you would have the patience to perform the wobbling/pixelporting tricks so many times throughout the run. The pixelport-in-a-narrow-vertical-passageway was very fun to watch because of how fast Link moves. I really enjoyed dark world dungeons 2 and 6 because of your clever use of their items. It was also fun to see you use the Cane of Somaria so much (I tend to forget about that item, usually). I'm giving this a 9/9.5. Edit:
Tompa's Submission Text wrote:
Taking/dealing damage Most enemies that damage Link can only do that every 4th frame. This is abused to walk/run through enemies without taking damage.
I didn't notice any obvious places where you used this trick. Is it fairly limited in its applications, or is it just really hard to see when watching at full speed?
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What did you do to this poor game?!? I really enjoyed this run. It was quite a change from the last version because of all the wobbling/walk-through-walls tricks (as well as the clever uses of death-warping). The beginning was bit slow just because you often had to get from point A to point B, but all the funny glitching made up for it. Aspects of this TAS that I enjoyed most: -Plentiful use of auto-fight (was this to avoid the extra having to select which enemy to attack?) -Strange wobbling to skip triggers and battles -Rapid music shifting while in the walk-through-walls void -Glitching into Magicant and seeing Ness suddenly shift to his pajamas (with the dead Jeff and Paula following) -Getting ~20 level-ups from the battle against Ness' Nightmare, then getting another ~10 from the huge xp bonus right afterwards -Jeff stealing a Gutsy bat from a Bionic Kraken (for those who don't know: there's only a 1/128 chance a Bionic Kraken will even have one of those) - "Giygas has fallen asleep!" -The teddy bear staying alive all the way to the end :) I'm giving this a 9 Entertainment, 9.7 Technical.
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The run would certainly look a lot "cleaner" if you chose to impose a "no death" restriction on it, but I suppose it doesn't matter that much since there aren't that many levels where you'll have to kill yourself. Good luck with the run! I'll definitely be watching your WIPs and providing feedback.
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Mukki wrote:
On another note, has anyone been able to play this .pxm back yet?
I was able to get the movie to play just fine (I'm using the actual CD, by the way). My plugins were exactly the same as yours, except I have P.E.Op.S CDR Driver 1.4 for Cdrom. I would be very interested in seeing a full TAS of this game, since it was one of my favorite games to play some years ago. If/when you start TASing this, are you planning to use MHS to watch Crash's speed? I was messing around with the tool while playing, and it seemed like Crash gets a slight boost forward when spinning (but he also gets slowed down a bit once the spin stops, so I'm not actually sure if it's faster). On another note, you may want to consider getting a mask or two for levels like the Great Gate, where you can hop onto the spiked pillars (and other obstacles) to save time. I know it usually wastes time to collect masks, but would it be worth collecting three at strategic points for the increased speed and invulnerability?
Post subject: Re: Gaming Survey for my dad's new marketing project
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Why not, this looks like fun :) Gender? M Age? 18 Play on PC or Console? Consoles If Console, which one? Wii, occasionally PS2 Do you play: [X] Alone? [ ] Online? [X] In-home groups? Do you take your gaming “seriously?” (want to beat friends, win tourneys etc.) Not really. I tend to not worry about winning/losing when playing with friends. Where do you get your information about games? Friends who bought a game, various online websites Favorite games? 1. Super Smash Bros Brawl 2. Ratchet and Clank 2: Going Commando 3. Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess • Where do you buy your games? I tend to get games as birthday/Christmas gifts, but when I buy one myself, I get it at Game Crazy or Gamestop. • Where do you buy your consoles? Any retailer that has one when I want it, e.g. I bought the Wii at Target when they got some in stock. • Have you ever traded in or purchased a second hand game/console? Yes, I got my Gamecube used to save some money. •Your parents: []Support your gaming []Dislike it [X]Don’t care []Not living with parents
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I'm not very familiar with the Fire Emblem series, but I really enjoyed this TAS anyway. The planning that went into this was apparent throughout. I thought the crazy cursor-wobbling was actually quite interesting to watch, not only because of how it looks but because it became a great visual representation of the manipulation done in this TAS. Yes vote from me. Edit: Other things I liked about this TAS: -Times when you just jumped (almost) straight to the boss and got Eirika to the throne -Multiple battles in a row where the enemy missed and you got a counter-critical -When an isolated "got 5000 gold" message (or similar) showed up in the midst of your rapid screen-skipping between chapters Congratulations on finishing the run!
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thegreginator wrote:
In the Water Castle b comments you say "Mario will fall farther into patches of water if you clip a ledge right before entering the water. " You also say "I saved a few frames by clipping the secret passageway to enter it sooner" in the ...? a comments. Are these 2 things the same? How exactly does it work? Does it always save time when you need to fall into a gap or only when you fall into water?
They're completely different tricks. The ...? secret passageway is actually a block that warps Mario to the next area, and I just found a better way to intersect it than before.
thegreginator wrote:
Also, in the Pipe Star World a comments you say, "This level can be improved slightly by duck-jumping into vertical pipes (since Mario will start a little farther into the pipe). " Does this only work with the SMB3-style pipes?
Right, it's a property of how the SMB3 pipes work.
Solon wrote:
You say you know that the 1/1 swimming could have saved time. If you knew, why didn't you use it?
At the time, I didn't know about the trick at all. 1/1 swimming was discovered long after I was done with all the water levels.
Solon wrote:
Why did you go about the Vacant Ghost House the way you did? Wouldn't it minimize the backtracking to hit the secret exit first? (This confused me about jimsfriend's run too.)
Since I have to grab Yoshi and a sprinboard out of Crystal Secret, and since I have to complete Crystal Cavern 3 before getting Yoshi, the optimal map route is to unlock the "normal" path to Crystal Cavern 4 and go through the secret path (by taking the Vacant Ghost House secret exit) once I've picked up Yoshi. If I took the secret exit first, I would have had to backtrack an extra time in order to get Yoshi.
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It's impressive that you were able to finish a (U) version of the movie so quickly! I still think Soulrivers' TAS was a little more entertaining, but this TAS is still very fun to watch, espeically now that I can actually read the text ;) I'm giving this a 'yes' vote. By the way, in the last submission, you said that 62 frames were saved over the previous version (ignoring the Japanese text), but here 69 frames were saved. Where did the extra 7 frames come from?
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Bloobiebla wrote:
This TAS clearly does it's purpose of entertaining the viewer, far more than the previous submittion.
Can you describe what parts you mean, specifically? I just re-watched Soulrivers' TAS, and I honestly think it was more entertaining than this one. Soulrivers did some crazy things during the boss battle, like creating a note sprite out of thin air and activating the shield in time to the boss's patterns. This TAS did some funny things, too, but Soulrivers' TAS entertained me a lot more. When you add in the fact that I'm now unable to read the text, it just makes me unsure of this submission. Hopefully this will clarify my opinions a little better.
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I'm not sure what to think about this run... On the one hand, -It's faster than the published movie (by a significant amount, compared to the total movie length) -New techniques are incorporated (e.g. cornerboosting) -The stylistic choices are entertaining to me On the other hand, most of the improvement is just due to a version change. I would be completely in favor of publishing this movie if the version change allowed for some crazy new trick to be performed. However, the only thing it did for this TAS was make the texts go by more quickly... which, while obviously faster, decreases the entertainment of this run. It would be different if some texts could be skipped entirely, but right now, the time saved is not very noticable (from a casual perspective). There's something about the Wind Fish saying "Play the eight instruments!" (when you haven't collected any) that makes me laugh almost every time I see the glitched run, and that's missing from this version of the TAS. Also, consider the audience: if a visitor to the site gets to watch one of two movies, one with English text and the other with Japanese text, I'm pretty sure that the one with English text will be more entertaining to the viewer. I know how much of a pain it is to have to redo an entire movie just to change versions (especially because of all the luck-manipulation that goes into LA with-warps TAS), but I really don't know how to vote. Right now, I'm leaning towards a 'meh', but I'm willing to listen to other opinions. If this TAS gets accepted, I would strongly suggest that any future TAS use the English version, even if it ends up being slower because of the text.
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Giuocob, are you working on the 100% TAS right now? Or do you still have emulator problems?
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Link makes it out of the water because Tompa had the flippers in the movie, by the way.
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Use Dehacked's microstorage page if you want to post a .vbm file. Most users at TASVideos (myself included) really like it because it's very simple and easy to use.
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I myself don't really understand what's happening with the glitch when picking up the sword from the beach. It's basically yet another application of up/down glitches (I press up/down/b), but the effect doesn't seem to apply to any other situation in the game. It might be possible to pick up instruments this way (since they act in a similar way to the sword on the beach), but Tompa and I never found a way to do it. I highly recommend that you make a testrun before you start TASing, for a number of reasons. If there's some flaw in the route, you don't want to be halfway through an optimized TAS and find out you have to redo (or come up with some less optimal solution). Also, a testrun will help us gauge the entertainment potential of the run, and hint at how long the TAS will be. It doesn't have to be optimized at all (it can be realtime with a few savestates to undo things like game overs), since it's just demonstrating the route/concept. By the way, are you still aiming for 100%? It seems like several things are missing from the route, such as the boomerang and magic powder/arrow/bomb upgrades from the bats.
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I'm not very good at route planning at all, hopefully Tompa can help you out in that regard... As for the tricks, I've written them up previously on Link's Awakening Tricks, a few with companion animations. If you need a better explanation, just ask and I'll try to be more detailed/complete. By the way, thanks for the tip about the stick-honeycomb trade... that really saves a large amount of time in the any% run (a minute or more, probably). Good luck with the glitched run - hopefully the run will turn out well.
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I've been using VBA rerecording v17 (maybe 17.2? I can't remember). Hopefully that will solve your problem.
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I'm not so sure that a doghouse-warping movie would be very entertaining anyway. It seems like a good portion of the movie would involve walking through glitchy areas and picking up a chest here and there. The last part of the movie would involve collecting all the instruments (once all items are picked up), but maybe it's possible to do that with the doghouse glitch as well... At any rate, it doesn't seem very entertaining to me. Maybe you should make a testrun that demonstrates the route? I could be completely wrong about this. Anyway, the reason why you would use the black and white version is because the screen warp glitch is much faster than the doghouse glitch (unless I don't understand it properly). It seems like a contrived goal to use an "inferior" warping glitch when you could just complete the movie on the black and white version. I'm not saying this to be rude, just that the movie might not be received well on this site if the goals aren't as solid as they could be. But, in my opinion, a movie going through the game without warps should be much more entertaining anyway. About the ROM versions, I was under the impression that I was using the (U) [!] version. However, I tested this at once point, and it seemed like I was actually using the (E) version... so, you should try that one if the (U) version doesn't work.
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Tompa and I were defining 100% as collecting all items and heart containers (which implies that all instruments and trading quest items are collected). I would personally recommend that you do the run without warping glitches, since otherwise you might as well do the run on the black and white version with the screen warp glitch. If you still want to do this with warps on the DX version, though, do you know about the pegasus boots warping glitch? I've mentioned it a few times in this topic, and it's relatively simple to perform. I can make a video of the glitch if necessary.
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I wanted to bump this rather old topic to post my completed TAS for Super Challenge World (any%, not 100%): http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/578415363/Super%20Challenge%20World%20TAS%20any%25.smv My route was to get to Twilight Fortress (since I found a way to get a cape out of that level), and continue on to the end as quickly as possible. I think the total exit count is either 42 or 44, I can't remember exactly. Total time: 1:06:27 Rerecords: 57395 FAQ Q: Why did you wait until after Eerie Castle to get the yellow switch palace? A: The secret exit in Eerie Castle is much faster without the yellow blocks. Putting the keyhole underneath a set of yellow blocks was meant to be a decoy/joke, but it turns out to be very convenient for the TAS. I can't skip the Yellow Switch Palace entirely because it's necessary for getting a cape out of Twilight Fortress. Q: Why do you die at the start of Whomp's Fort 1? Why do you sacrifice your cape at the end of the level? A: Mario has to be small to complete the level because of 1-space tall passageways everywhere. I brute-force the section with the fish blocking the way (by switching to cape and getting hit) so that I don't have to get the silver P-switch. The time lost by not having a cape in the later levels is offset by the time saved by not getting the P-switch. Q: What's going on at the end of Mystery Passage 3? A: It's necessary to set up a glitch to progress to the end of the level: If Mario is holding onto a rope that collides with a wall, the game locks Mario in the "climbing" state even though the rope is gone. The effect is that the game "thinks" that there are now invisible climbing nets everywhere in the level. If you see some weird flight patterns in the area with the plants, it's a result of the glitch. Q: Why do you wait so long in Mystery Passage 4? A: I have to wait for the crushing platforms to rise (it's impossible to swim under them, unlike regular walls and platforms). Since I have to wait anyway, I kill some extra enemies to reduce lag.
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I know that some N64 TASers use a controller instead of their keyboard so that they're able to tilt the analog stick without the excess trouble of setting it up directly in the emulator (or maybe they just like a controller better than a keyboard...). For tool-assisted Wii playing, I envision the TASer as having a Wii remote and sensor bar, and being able to change where they're pointing in between frames. It would be incredible to construct an emulator that could be compatible with the Wii remotes, but it would probably be the easiest way to TAS on a Wii emulator.
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The movie was fun to watch; as others have said, your entertainment choices were good (especially when you danced to the music after the sphynx). It seemed well-played and frame-precise (though it's usually hard to tell with these cartoon-type games). Yes vote from me.
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