To get magic, you'll need three, or possibly two. There are two boulders blocking the way up, and you have to get in the fairy entrance. There's also the floor that you'll have to bomb that drops into Dodongo King's lair. Also, you could use two bombchus to skip the miniboss in Jabu Jabu, though I don't know if you'd have enough before going by Kakariko Village if you did that.
If you have time where you'd have to wait for the sun to come up, maybe you should go to the bottom of the well during that time, since you'd have to travel a bit more in Hyrule Field that way. It actually wouldn't add in too much more time, since you wouldn't need to plant a bean at the graveyard. It would probably be made up by the time saved in Jabu Jabu, and it would look cooler too, I'd say.
And you won't need any beans, though you'll have to spend thousands or rerecords getting hit by the poe in just the right way. . . .
Edit: Oh yeah, I think you need one in the Shadow Temple too. Actually, you'll need two of them there. And possibily in the Spirit and/or Forest as well.
Okay, I fail to see how a missile hitting the ground makes a bridge, but okay. And I tried to shoot missiles at that place, but I did it when I was crouched in that area, so it did nothing.
Well, I've been going right in Crateria for a while and I ran into some lava, but I only have 1 energy tank and 7 missiles and no super missiles and no bombs, so I can't seem to do anything. The last thing I did was get the wall jump, but I ran into a dead end that had a pipe at the end after a bunch of spike rooms, so I went back up, past my ship, and jumped off a cliff to get there, and now I can't go back. And I didn't save, but it sure would be convenient to save in that room before the lava if there's no way back or no secret passage somewhere (I've been running into every wall I see, but maybe there's a spot I haven't gotten to).
I wish my controllers would work. . . .
Edit: Image
With the ground jump there's not nearly enough height to clear Mido. My attempts to use bombs/bombchus/jumpslashes in addition to the ground jump didn't work either. But well, it's very much possible that I just didn't try enough. I only tried for about 30 minutes.
And on a random note, I was able to bombchu the pillar in the Shadow Temple in my first try. But it took me about 20 times to get pulled through the spiked wall to get the key. And I found out that I'm decent at sword spins at about 30% speed emulation. =P
In the SDA topic, FierceLinkMaster had a post that links to divx movie files that show a trick to avoid having to use a bombchu on the beamos in Spirit Temple, and one that shows Link running through the desert really quickly (using action replay or something like that to boost up the speed). The running is really unoptimized, since I'm pretty sure he was doing that in real time, but it does give a general, though vague, idea of where to go. But as for the perfect path, well, that'll take a ton of testing.
Haunted Wasteland:
http://paperpengo.com/Zelda/Haunted%20Wasteland%20Dash.divx
Beamos Skip:
http://paperpengo.com/Zelda/Beamos%20Super%20Jump.divx
Just in case you haven't seen it. And the ground jump stuff that's been talked about recently is pretty interesting too. Maybe if getting the bombbag upgrade as a child that lets you have bombs as an adult doesn't take too much time, it could be useful for the Forest Temple. And bombs might be useful in other places as well. But I'm not really sure if it can be used to save time.
As for getting the twenty rupees for the fishing, getting the blue rupee from jumping over the platforms in the water by the shop is an obvious choice, since it's completely on the way. But I was thinking that instead of going into the house and opening the two chests for two more blue rupees, it might be faster to just grab the one that's on a ledge behind that house, and to kill both of the skeletons that pop up instead and get a blue rupee from each of them. But I don't know how the randomness for the skeletons work, so I don't know if it would be faster.
And you can just kill yourself. ;)
I just watched the WIP, and at lot of it was nice, but I have some comments.
I was wondering if it would be faster to get the blue rupee from behind the house that you got the two blue rupees from and then kill two of the skeletons for blue rupees instead.
When talking to the owl, after the second or third line or so you should be able to have his text go by really fast and get all weird looking if you jam on the A and B buttons. There are some other cases where you can use this, but not too often.
I'm wondering if the fisherman's talk is longer or shorter if you enable the rumble pak? I doubt the movie would desync before that if you had a rumble pak enabled or not, though I really wouldn't know for sure.
If you can get Link to walk on that shallow area right after getting the bottle, then turn around and backflip out of the water instead of having him climb out, it might be faster, though I haven't tested it myself.
But other than that, it seemed to be good. I didn't really notice anything else to improve.
As for the Wasteland, it's probably best to just watch a video of it and just use a lot of loading up savestates to get a good feel for where the boundaries are before recording. But basically, after getting over the sand pit, you have to go north and slightly east until you pass a building with flags all around it, and then you have to go a little more north (and you have to make sure you're far enough to the east), then you turn west and go west until you're about 3/4ths of the map to the west (just an estimate off the top of my head, I don't know it exactly), and then go south until you're about level with where you have to go, and simply go west until the end. But like I said, a video would be much better. I think somewhere in the SDA topic there's an animated gif of where you have to go, or something like that. Or of course there's TSA's run.
It would be nice if there was some sort of hack that made the boundaries visible. Sort of like in Mega Man 2 in Wood Man's level in the beginning. It seems there's some hack that makes the ceiling textures black instead of looking like the background, so that it's easier to zip through when you're recording. It would be really nice if there was some way of doing that for OoT, but well, I don't think we have a way of doing it.
Edit: About the way back through the gate and boundary violations, I've heard that TSA found a way back through the gate, but he hasn't explained how it's done, at least he hasn't from what I've seen. So I don't really know how it's done or anything, though I think it would still save time, most likely, to just save and die.
And for the boundary stuff, all glitches are acceptable. There was a huge debate at SDA about the rules that apply there (it's probably still going on), but here, anything that saves time, other than using cheats or bad roms or having save data or not starting from a power on, it's all acceptable other than that. And pretty much everything is judged by a case by case look. So we have had runs that use save data. It's just that if the glitches totally destroy the game to the point where you can't really see what the game was meant to be (Zelda 2, Zelda 3, Wizards and Warriors(to some extent), Mario 64 16 star run, Castlevania CotM, etc), then there will be more than one run accepted. I think that an all medalions run would be accepted here in addition to a fastest time possible run.
Unfortunately, we're not sure if there's a way to get back through the Gerudo Gate (the big one in the fortress, not the small on that's over the river). Also, it would take a good bit of time to walk all the way back through the Desert Colossus and back through the Haunted Wasteland. It probably wouldn't end up saving time in the end, even if there is a way to get back through that gate. But it is a possibility.
For mwl's route, the areas that take time that aren't in the other route are walking from Kokiri to Hylia, and from Hylia to Gerudo, and save warping and getting from Link's house to Zora's Domain.
For ProtoMonkey's route, you have to walk from Kokiri to Gerudo, and walk from Hyrul Castle to Lake Hylia.
It seems like ProtoMonkey's way is likely a little faster with the way that we time things and such, but I'm wondering which one will allow you to enter Hyrule Castle at the right time? (since you can't enter the town at nighttime because of the drawbridge, and you also can't enter the castle itself at nighttime since the guards will throw you out)
And this whole arguement may be a moot point if we can't get up to the ledge in the graveyard without the magic bean.
That first segment split only saves a few seconds using the SDA multiple segment timing, and when you add in the fact that more rupees can be gained by going through the forest from Mido, it may end up saving a little bit of time to not save and reset, even when that is possible.
As for the other places, it shouldn't be too hard to die to return to where you need to be. Except for maybe after getting Zelda's Lullaby. I'm not sure of a good way to die there, since it has to be day time when you get to Zelda. But since we may have to get the magic bean anyway, the structure of the run in that area might be a little different anyway.
Well, I'm extremely new to M64 files, so I'm not sure what a desynch is (I used to use the AVIs) but if I had to guess it'd be this. After Guano retrieves the Kokiri Sword, he pauses it to equip it, but he never ends up equipping it. And then he does random movements around that area, so I'm guessing the input got messed up or something. Do you know why? How can I fix this? Thank you in advance.
I remember that when I recorded my testrun that would sometimes happen with my own file on the computer I recorded it on. This is obviously different since it works for other people, but I just wanted to comment about how weird that pause can be.
As for how to fix it, well, I don't really know what else you can do besides all the other things that have been mentioned.
Do you know if ammunition refills are ever necessary? It would be nice to skip the "Omigosh you found ammunition!!" text boxes you get on the first time you collect one. There are probably a few items that applies to.
I'm pretty sure that Link will never pick up slingshot ammo in this run. Same with arrows later on. As for deku nuts and magic jars, I'm not really sure.
And I think that all the text skips were used other than the one right before the moving platform over the water, and in this case it didn't matter. Although I think it might be possible to speed up the text in some places by jamming in the A and B buttons. I know that the owl can be mostly skipped when you first enter Hyrule Field.
Just a few comments for any future runs:
It's possible to hit the first two enemies (the plant things that give the deku sticks) with a single sword spin if you're in the right position, though it may or may not save time.
If it can be manipulated correctly, it's probably best to climb up the vines on the right side instead so that you can land on the button after falling through the web, though I haven't really tested it out for time. And it's possible to get the wall crawler near the top to hit you onto the platform, saving a little bit of time, but when I tried to make it hit me, I was unsuccessful with my luck.
I've been told that it's possible to swing your sword to save your deku stick right before the cutscene of the burning web shows up. I haven't tested that one, though. But that would be good for the spot right before you have to crawl through the hole.
Another way to save a deku stick is to just jumpslash the fire with your sword instead of the deku stick. When you take out your deku stick it'll be on fire. That way you can save another stick and have 2 left when leaving the deku tree.
To fight one of the enemies in the Spirit temple you need to use a deku stick (and possibly a deku nut too, I forgot exactly, or maybe it's possible with just a deku nut), and afterwards you need to have a deku stick left to be able to light torches. It's possible to beat up a stalfos there, and he will have a deku stick sometimes (but very rarely), but he's after that enemy that requires deku items. Hopefully you can get some in the grass.
But anyway, nice test run. =) When you look at just the movements, it looks nice enough to be a final run. It looks like your test run is sort of like spezzafer's Mario64 testrun and mine was more like FODA's Mario64 testrun. Except mine was a lot worse and less useful. =P
Okay, thanks, I'm downloading it now. But uh, I don't think we're supposed to link to any ROMs, so you should probably take the link down and just offer to PM it to people who need it, or something like that. Just so that there aren't any problems with anyone. =)
Anyway, I'll check out your run when it's done downloading.
Ooh, this run looks even nicer. But does anyone know if you need extra heart containers in the future to survive something?
Not anymore. When I was working on my run in December, before I stopped to let Acryte do it, the plan was to go through the fire temple without the red outfit, so there needed to be a certain number of hearts (I think 5) to be able to survive the boss fight with only 1 fairy, but now of course we skip all of the fire temple and water temple too, so now there's no point in getting that heart container.
It seems that Acryte has been moving or something. At least, that's the response I got from SDA when I asked about it. But since it's been over a month since he's posted anything, it's probably fine to work on it again.
I'd comment on your run, but I haven't been able to find the 1.2 version anywhere, and it seems that the 1.0 version is slower or something. I expected it to desync, but having directional input near the beginning of Navi's talk to Link seemed odd. Or maybe that's just there for some other reason.
Hmm, maybe I should start on my super rough testrun again. I'd probaly do that after finals, though.
Edit: Oh, and I'd say it's best to just die after the Spirit Temple. Let's not get into segmenting and such. If this was straight to a video, then it might make some sense, but not as .m64 files.
Considering how much randomness there is, there's basically a 49% chance that it would save more than a frame, a 49% chance it wouldn't save time (possibly losing time), and a 2% chance it would save exactly a frame. Or something like that. And it would require basically doing all of the major parts of the run over again.
(at least, that's how I think it goes. Maybe it's like 45% 45% 10% or something, but yeah, it seems like it'll be something like that)
There actually would likely be more time saved since there would probably be new optimizations and all, but at this point, it would be best to just save that for a new run.
I'd say that this hack, while it is neat, doesn't really seem professional enough. There are a lot of places where you're just pointlessly walking back and forth, and the glitches in the graphics and music don't help very much.
If there are a lot of cool ways to bypass a lot of the boring parts, I'd say that it could be worth doing. I'm kind of on the fence about it.
Yeah, please don't go back. For me it's not worth the extra wait for me to see the number of frames be one lower. =P Or even 3 if it's possible to do the Flashman fight ending on the highest level as well. Only if it was about 30-60 would I say go for it.
Edit: I just watched it and have no idea which one is faster. =P
Where's the slowdown button for Windows Media Player? =(
Edit 2: Okay, the bottom one is faster, like I had guessed since there's less air time, but I really couldn't tell unless I paused it and scrolled through the frames. Yeah, it's really not worth it. Though now that you brought it up, Bag of Magic Food will be all sad to not see it there.
I've played this game a decent amount many years ago, and I can say that I more or less have no idea what's going on. =) Well, I do, but when watching it at 100% speed, everything kind of just goes over your head. And I don't think I ever tried the time trial before. Or if I did it was only once or something like that.
Anyway, I voted yes.
Nice solution. =)
It seems obvious enough now, but I never would have thought of using the spikes.
Was the time saved in the level from using item 2 to get over the fish? Or was it something else? (or a combination of things)
I watched the movie at 12% speed at one of the jumps with a low ceiling on Flashman's stage, and A was held long after Rockman hit his head and started falling down. So I'm guessing it would probably be consistent, though I somehow missed having it really slow on any other jump like that.
I'd think that touching the ground for one frame wouldn't help your speed enough to gain even a single frame, but I don't know enough about that unless I did my own testing, which I'm far too lazy to do. =P
