Posts for CoolBumpty

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Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
Personally, I felt that the old movie was more enjoyable because the different bits used to make the movie different from the old one (like the first birdo battle), just didn't seem as interesting, along with the lack of the snow person being caught in the ground. If you just look at both runs and didn't have the frame count, it would seem that the old one is faster too, even though it technically isn't. So in terms of entertainment, I'll have to vote no, just based on my tastes and how I enjoy things most. Actual completion time generally doesn't mean too much to me. (Ignore if you like, I digress from the topic here) I also felt similarly about that new SMB1 run. If the only thing that was changed was the faster final level, I would have just had that one replace the old one without much thought, since it's not less enjoyable in any way, but it's technically faster. But when the set amount of frames for each level is taken advantage of, it just seems slower, and getting more points or coins just doesn't make up for it in my mind since it feels so imperfect. Similarly, if damage is taken to affect randomness, I don't like it too much. To me, if you have to explain the reasoning behind doing someting that looks sloppy or if you have the just trust that the person knew what they were doing, it's less enjoyable. But there are definately times when it's worthwhile.
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Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
I watched your run, then Genisto's 1 player run, and half of your run again to make sure I was seeing things correctly. Your run overall is pretty good, but when there's Genisto's run out there, it's really hard to accept this one. I really liked the first stage and thought that there wasn't really anything that could be improved, other than possibly the boss fight, but I'm not sure about that one. But here's a list of possible improvements: Somehow Genisto was able to shoot out more or less constant streams with his spread shot. It seems to help out a whole lot, especially on the base levels. With the 2 player run, it's vital to be in control of lag. It slows down your run a lot, and it's the main reason why it's probably not possible to surpass the 1 player run in speed, though if it was minimized by shooting the correct things and not shooting when unneccesary, it should be possible to bring the times closer together. So it would probably be wise to, say, shoot the crowds of guys in the base with one character when there's a lot of lag caused by them. There's a lot of unneccesary shooting in many levels. It really adds to the lag. It's a whole lot harder to only take neccesary shots in a two player run, especially with the confusion on whether or not it's better to kill an enemy or not based on whether it causes more lag to kill it from the bullet lag or just leave it alone to clutter the screen. Though I think that a simple case may be the waterfall boss. If it's a set amount of time for it to open its mouth, regardless of when its arms are killed, both players shouldn't shoot at once, since it causes a lot of lag. Otherwise, I'm not totally sure what's best. It's a really difficult thing to do, but I think it's needed in this case, because comparisons to Genisto's 1 player run are inevitable. The only exception seems to be in base levels, where I think it's a factor in making a more singular stream, though I'm not certain. In levels such as the energy zone and warehouse, it may or may not be faster to have the one in front wait for a moment so that they coincide, so that the timing with the lasers are handled better (I'm not sure about that one) and so that the boost of speed from the cart can be used (not sure whether this would save time either) Genisto is able to jump over the spike things that come down on that long stretch near the end of the warehouse, and it would save time, as you said. Sorry, though, I don't know how to do it. But it must be possible somehow. On the waterfall level, it saves time to not have both characters jump at the same time. For example, on the first cliff, you run until both characters are able to make it onto the first cliff. If you have the one in front jump first and barely make it onto the cliff then have the second character jump when he can barely make it onto the platform, it would save time. There are a few places like that, mostly the beginning cliff and the area around the last moving platform, that can save time. And I'd say that if you save so much time with the first player that the second one ends up dying as the screen scrolls up quickly to the boss, that's fine. I think that death would be appreciated if it happened, since it would really show that you're doing it as fast as possible, but I don't think that death would happen if both players move as quickly as possible. But in all levels, don't worry if the second player falls behind. Just forcus on the first player moving as quickly as possible. Have the second player worry about lag and such. Just have the first player move as ideally as possible without adding too much lag. In other words, it'll be a whole huge headache to try to optimize the run. I think you did a pretty good job, and if this was made about two years ago, it probably would be accepted. It's just that there have been so many runs and so many optimizations in that amount of time that it's really hard for most people to get a run that'll be accepted when compared to runs of experts like Genisto. =( But if those changes are made (obviously not an easy task by any stretch of the imagination, and would probably increase the rerecord count about tenfold), I would joyfully choose Yes, and I think most other people would as well. Because it would be great to see. As it is now, though, I don't think it's optimized enough to be accepted. It was a good attempt, though. And it's something that someone really should be working on, so I'm glad you chose it. =)
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Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
Thank you. That helps sooooo much. =D I got a decent, though far from perfect, version of the item 2 way going. But when trying to do item 1, I realized that I couldn't. When looking at the video frame by frame, he just sort of jumps to the right of the falling platform, not over it at all, and in midair on the way down he jumps somehow even though he's not over anything. Now I realize why this idea wasn't found before, because I certainly can't make any sense of it. I can test more later, but the sun came up, so I need some sleep. =P
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Posts: 158
Well, I was going to try out the two different methods, but I worked about half an hour and got to my first testing and got on top of the item 2, about frame perfect from the start of the level, assuming that I placed the item in the ideal place, which probably isn't true. But then the FCEU had an error and closed on me, which often happens. And when that happens, the movie isn't saved. So yeah, with that problem around, I don't think I'll be into trying the whole level, since I can't even do 1/100th of the level without losing the movie. I could do a few frames at a time and end the movie and play through the movie and start recording again, but that's just way too much effort when you think about how much easier it would be with a computer that functions properly. So I think someone else will have to work on it. So far, in terms of improvement, there's the extra use of item 3 in Heatman's stage, there's the movement of Flashman being first and Bubbleman being after Metalman, and there are possible improvements for Bubbleman's level. And I think that using item 1 in that new spot saves less than a second. And besides, if everything is done the same way as before but there are 3 uses of item 1 at the start, I think it'll be 1 short of having enough. Using item 2 at the crabs would remove 1 use of item 1, making it last until the end.
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Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
Thanks, that worked for me for a while. Then X decided to jump off while fighting Storm Eagle. Well, I'll try looking at it again later. Maybe I forgot to turn off WIP1 on that one. But some parts have been very impressive. I won't vote on it until I can (hopefully) see all of it, but if I could I'm sure it would be a yes. I guess two screens isn't just for modern handheld games anymore.
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Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
Both of them eventually desync for me. I was trying to use the 1.43+ version of Snes9x, version 7. When I tried to use the final, which I interpretted as being the uneditted Snes9x that was released a long time ago, there wasn't any way of making it run in the background, but it seemed to get past that desync. But well, it looked pretty nice for the first few minutes. And the torret gives me errors, so I can't download that either. I guess I'll just have to wait, unless someone figures out what I'm doing wrong.
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
If I can't even make a decent Donkey Kong run, how am I supposed to make even a trial run of Rockman 2? But well, if I have a lot of time, I'll try it. It might take me about a year just to do that one stage, though. =P I'll see about the crab part first, though, since if it's not possible to use item 2 there, it's certainly not worth saving.
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Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
Hmm, do you know if it's faster to use item 2 for the whole area or item 1 in that one section? For item 1 there's the plus of not having to switch one extra time, not having the lag from the frogs, and having item 2 available, though I don't know if that helps anywhere. For item 2 it's just a faster speed over a longer period of time. I wonder if item 2 would be helpful at the crabs? If a nice height could be found, and it doesn't cause too much lag, it might end up being faster to have that zip on the first screen and save item 2 for the end.
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Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
That outtake was awsome. =D
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
He's going for timeunits and not actual time, so the killing of enemies doesn't add to the time in term of timeunits. At least I think that's the reason behind it. It's hard to say which approach is better.
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Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
Yeah, it looks like it was a planned thing. That's a pretty neat Easter egg, and it works really well for its TAS. I was a little confused about the level titles being shown in varying degrees for different levels, but there's probably something behind that. Anyway, it's not like my vote counts at this point, but I still vote yes. I just wish that Bumptys weren't harmed in the movie. . . .
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Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
Aw, I really wish that it was kept with their normal names. But it's your run and your choice. I'm just one of those people who always love to stick with the default.
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
You know, I have to say that it's very suspicous about how levels 1 and 2 are done. The randomness of both levels were exactly the same as my earlier run, which isn't too huge of a surprise, though it's slightly unlikely that they'd both have the same frames to affect the randomness. But also the way that Jumpman waits as the elevator goes up is exactly what I did, with the turn around and waiting until the last possible moment then running and jumping. But it could just be a strange coincidence.
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Yeah, I think that the warp was probably there for testing and they just forgot to take it out, or something. So in my opinion it's sort of like abusing programming errors, but that's just me. The story parts do add a chunk of time, but on the positive side, the two beginning bosses wouldn't be skipped (since I find them to be interesting since they're the two I played against most often), there would be less exp grinding to make it seem like less time is spent on getting exp, and someone who hasn't played through the game might have a clue as to what's going on. But obviously the downsides are a longer run time, trickier optimization of gaining experience, and often boring story which isn't even seen by the viewer because the text is only there for a frame or two.
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The boss room isn't actually there. It's just configured that way to save space, and I believe that there isn't actually a 2D grid for Mega Man 1, so even if two rooms appear to be next to each other, they aren't unless it's normal to go between those rooms. Too bad, since it would obviously be really cool to just jump to the boss. Edit: Doh, I'm too slow, it seems. =P
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I made a completely unoptimized attempt at HeatMan using the regular weapon, and it took about 22.81 seconds. In Morimoto and FinalFighter's run it took a bit over 6 seconds, not including the weapon change (which would be required for a run using this path as well). It's in increase of about 17 seconds at most (since my boss fight wasn't optimized in any way whatsoever), and those 17 seconds seem like they should be less than the 20 seconds saved. So, unless there's some weird problem we haven't thought of, it should save a lot of time (a few seconds I think) to do FlashMan first, HeatMan second, and BubbleMan any time after AirMan. I have no clue how this wasn't calculated by Morimoto if this does end up working. The lack of using item 3 to save some time in the HeatMan level is one thing, but this error looks too glaring to be real. Please look for flaws in my logic or testing. Edit: Oh, and when I said "do FlashMan first, HeatMan second, and BubbleMan any time after AirMan.", I meant MetalMan instead of AirMan.
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Well, going to BubbleMan last would mean that it would take 7 metal hits instead of 28 (and I'm quite sure that they would take less time per shot since you can aim the metal weapon), which, according to the comparison of the fight with BubbleMan on Morimoto and Finalfighter's run and the fight on Morimoto's old version, saves about 10 more seconds, from about 13.41 to 3.55 (using a stopwatch, from the moment the bar is filled until the final hit). For the HeatMan fight, there seems to be about a second of delay in between each hit, and it would take 14 hits compared to 5 with bubble lead. (info taken from http://www.mmhp.net/GameHints/MM2-Data.html#Damage ) That would take up about 9 seconds, assuming that the fight would be pretty much the same with bubble lead compared to the normal weapon other than the number of hits. There would be one more weapon change once in the boss room for BubbleMan, but it seems that the bubble lead weapon travels slower than the regular weapon, saving some time ideally. But all of that is small in comparison to the large difference we're hypothetically getting. But I haven't personally done a fight with HeatMan using the normal weapon, so there's likely some issue there.
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Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
That fight was so beautiful that it made me want to cry.
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
Samus runs faster in the PAL version (at least with the emulator; I'm not sure about the real hardware), and when that fact is combined with MF's technique of running faster by pressing L or R (which makes Samus aim upward or downward) on certain frames, it's enough to be able to escape.
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Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
I'm thinking that using the baby is just like getting the suitless Samus for Metroid. (Personally I've always liked AiAi the best, but that's just me) Anyway, good luck with that movie. I spent about half an hour and over a hundred rerecords trying to perfect the menus in the game, and ended up hundreds of frames slower than nitsuja's run. I guess I'm just not experienced enough. But anyway, I'll try to look for any possible points of improvement for your run if you post them, even though my brain isn't very good at finding them.
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Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
I believe that you aren't invincible from lava in Mega Man 1, but are in Mega Man 2 when hit first. But please correct me if I'm wrong.
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
Aw, well, I hope you feel better for your busy week. And hopefully you can continue on the run when you have time and are feeling better.
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
*prays* Sorry, it's a little late, though. . . . But I just got the Donkey Kong rom, so I've checked out your work and it's very impressive so far.
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Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
It's a nice improvement on a movie that was already good enough to be submitted and accepted, so it's obviously a yes.
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
It's a bit of a downer to watch this again after seeing your more recent WIP, but it's still a great run.
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