Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
Here is a 99.99% finalized list of skipped jiggies in Any%:
TTC - X Marks the Spot
TTC - Sandcastle
BGS - Tiptup Choir
BGS - Feed Croctus
BGS - Vile*
FP - Race 1*
FP - Race 2*
FP - Jinjos*
FP - Christmas Tree
FP - Talk to Wozza*
FP - Find presents and give to Boggy's kids
MMM - Organ
MMM - Slider Minigame (borderline - 50 seconds, still get notes)
GL - MMM Witch Switch
CCW - All (10)
CC - All (10)
RBB - All (10)
GV - All (10)
GL - CCW, CC, and RBB Witch Switch (3)
*these jiggies will be skipped because the transformation that is required for them is skipped
57 jiggies will be skipped and 43 will be collected (✿◠‿◠) Kirkq timed a lot of things in order to decide on this list.
This was the old route in which we went to CC instead of BGS as bee. Please see later posts for more information.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
I found this a while ago but decided to make a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id-0bCUXPHY
I believe it's possible in other places and it might lead to an 810 note door skip if done off the cauldron at the right time (see the video's description for more info).
I've sent the movie file for this to the people working on the any% tas with me, but here it is for anyone else who wants to check it out in MHS or whatever:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/118290/blt.rar
I also found that the clip through the Twinkly box works in Gobi's Valley off Gobi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_GgOJcFZss
I was able to retain flight once, but accidentally went back in bounds. This is extremely difficult and took thousands of attempts. It means you can get blue egg without cheats.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
Here's a brain dump of some stuff Kirkq and I have been working on regarding the TAS. I will post more as we finish timing things. We are also determining which Mumbo Tokens will be skipped.
Jiggies Skipped (57 total)
TTC - X Marks the Spot
BGS - Tiptup Choir
BGS - Feed Croctus
BGS - Vile*
FP - Race 1*
FP - Race 2*
FP - Jinjos*
FP - Christmas Tree
FP - Talk to Wozza*
FP - Find presents and give to Boggy's kids
MMM - Organ
GL - MMM Witch Switch
Two more can be skipped (see below)
CCW - All (10)
CC - All (10)
RBB - All (10)
GV - All (10)
GL - CCW, CC, and RBB Witch Switch (3)
*these jiggies will be skipped because the transformation that is required for them is skipped
Still Being Timed
Cutoffs: 1 jiggy = 30 seconds; 4 notes = 15~ seconds; 1 mumbo token = 3 seconds
GL - MM Witch Switch
MM - On top of Termite Mound
MM - Defeat Conga
MM - Feed Juju
TTC - Sandcastle
BGS - Defeat the Yellow Flibbits
FP - Beak Bombing The Giant Snowman's Buttons
FP - Beak Bombing the Sir Slush's Hats (30 Seconds, need hat for notes anyway)
MMM - Drop eggs into all the plant pots in the Church's graveyard
MMM - Nappa jiggy
MMM - Slider Minigame (borderline - 50 seconds, still get notes)
MMM - Inside Loggo the toilet
MMM - Bottom of the Well
Clanker's Cavern (RBA) - Rough Route
Notes by entrance
Notes on the way to Clanker's
Notes in underwater tunnel
Bottom part (go through key)
MUTANT CRABS
notes on top of clanker's
enter blow hole get notes and then go back toward camera
notes by teeth then peace out (of bounds) to notes underwater by side entry
fast movin' blades notes
leave on side by beehive
notes on vertical climbing pole
notes by honeycomb pieces area
area by tail
side compartments/alcoves
notes up near jiggy you reach by riding the blowhole
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
Ok, so I looked into this a lot over the past week or so along with r0bd0g, RingRush, and abahbob. Basically we think it was either hardware error (cartridge tilting, failure to reset a certain variable, etc.) or cheated/faked. Lots of the details in the persons' story don't line up with what actually happened (he said he was never in Spiral Mountain, but then he said he was; claimed he reset during a cutscene then changed it to during the gameover cutscene then said maybe he didn't reset; when the console crashed it took him a very long time to reset the console -- enough to remove a Gameshark cheating device). With the L to Levitate code it would have been as simple as holding L (which he claimed to be doing lol) and then letting go when you were high enough in MMM to take enough fall damage to kill yourself. There are dozens of videos showing exactly this on YouTube.
I believe this is what happened.
Does this mean BiT doesn't exist w/o cheats or hardware malfunction? No -- I have a solid lead on finding it in Rusty Bucket Bay's intro demo. However, I don't think what occurred to the person the other day was a glitch that can be replicated.
--
In other news, I found a new way to clip in Banjo-Kazooie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsbo_H5U7ZA
It's probably possible in other places and might lead to a 765 note door skip.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
Actually this only saves 8 additional jiggies -- in order to press the water switch as pumpkin you need to have the gate outside of MMM open. Meaning you'd need to enter it twice.
In addition, you'd have to sit through a lot of cutscenes (opening cutscene, first cutscene of Grunty's Lair potentially, potentially the gameover screen, the intro screen twice, and the demo up to MMM).
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
blahmoomoo wrote:
If this glitch is crazy enough to skip almost everything, then it could be considered for the "glitched" category instead of "any%," even if an any% run doesn't exist yet.
It's not. It would let you save like 18 extra jiggies (no need to pay for MMM or FP) and skip learning moves from Bottles. Following along the any% route, this would mean:
SM -> back in time thing - > MMM -> hit water level switch -> MM -> TTC -> BGS -> FP -> CCW -> Reverse Bee Adventure -> CC -> GV -> RBB -> Furnace Fun -> end of the game
25 jiggies for any%, 23 jiggies for low% (you'd do BGS instead of CC) -- still 810 notes.
I am strongly against including this. It's a time vs. entertainment tradeoff and shouldn't be included. The Banjo speedrunning community of SRL/SDA are very interested in gametime of this new any%, and this glitch where you beat the game through the intro screen doesn't allow for that.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
While in BiT mode if you kill yourself on console the game doesn't crash (my idea and Abahbob tested it) -- making it possible to reach "The End" screen. I still don't know if I like the idea of beating the game when it isn't on a save file.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
Abahbob wrote:
Cronikeys wrote:
Also, it's impossible to beat the game like this on console.
Are you 100% sure that it won't be possible to save if done correctly?
Using the only known way of playing the intro, it's impossible to save. A new method would need to be found in order for saving to work and this method would need to be console tested since emulators can do whacky things with save files.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
blahmoomoo wrote:
Reaching the credits (that is, the game believes that it has been completed) is the usual standard for beating a game..
Eh... most people would be interested in gametime and you wouldn't be able to get that with this.
Also, it's impossible to beat the game like this on console. That's been proven (I saw it). It crashes when loading different areas of the lair. Even if it's possible on emulator (which it is), I don't think TASes should do things that don't work on console :|
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
Just some facts about BiT (I've hacked my way into it with MHS) and why I'm not really looking into it:
-You can't save
-It crashes consoles when you leave areas (not emulators)
-No doors in the lair are open (you can leave through doors but then can't re-enter)
-You have the ice key
-You have all moves
The no saving thing is kind of a dealbreaker in my opinion. I don't really think it counts as beating the game if you don't do it on one of the files, right? Also, you'd still need 810 notes so this probably wouldn't make the game any shorter. Also, you can't reset so it would add a LOT of lair walking back to Mumbo's Mountain depending on which BiT cutscene you ended up in.
So, things about it that would save time:
-Having all moves (no bottles conversations)
-Therefore, you could get into Freezeezy Peaks early using the 350/450 note door skip thing I found (saving 8 more jiggies bringing the total required down to 33... IF you count this as beating the game -- which I don't!)
Again, I argue that using this BiT can't really count as beating the game since it doesn't take place on a save file.
--
Also, regarding the file deletion thing - I'm 99.99999% positive that's an emulator bug. I've tried unsuccessfully to replicate that on console (I found it like 2 months ago). Testing on console is hard though so I might be wrong.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
Phallosvogel wrote:
What exactly does Back in Time mean?
They gained control of the demo. It's in a lot of games afaik
Here's a video of a similar glitch in Twilight Princess:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0Rv6ZES7N0
Update if anyone wants to check this out:
<themaranyarlathotep> Updated version of what is believed to have happened:
<themaranyarlathotep> L button is held down entire time even before console is turned on. Save slot one is selected and a new file is started.
<themaranyarlathotep> Bottles tutorials are skipped and all six honey combs are collected.
<themaranyarlathotep> No damage is taken.
<themaranyarlathotep> Exactly 2:55 is spent in spiral mountain. When entering Grunty's Tower, the cut scene is most likely skipped. Once entering GL game is save and quit exactly 5 seconds is spent in GL.
<themaranyarlathotep> The reset is believed to have happened Somewhere between Hitting save and quit to the demos playing.
<themaranyarlathotep> If a reset is done at all.
<themaranyarlathotep> This is everything I am sure happened.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
Someone found Back in Time in Banjo-Kazooie. They did it on console and there is no video of it happening.
Here's what is known:
-L was being held down the whole time by rubberband
-Other buttons may have been pressed during the entire process
-Started a game on file 1
-Did Spiral Mountain 100% route (6/6 honeycombs meaning extra HP)
-Entered Grunty's Lair and watched the first cutscene (may have reset the console during this cutscene)
-If they didn't reset, they went to save and quit immediately after entering lair (may have reset the console during game over cutscene)
-Console may have never actually been reset, but if it was it was during one of the two cutscenes (Lair 1 or Game Over)
-Ended up in Mad Monster Mansion with time of 0 after letting the intro play for potentially 5 minutes
-May have pressed start during intro and gone to file 3 which already had about 60% collected
This was done on original console without gameshark on Version 1.1 cartridge.
The system crashed after they exited from the area outside MMM to the room with Gobi's Valley puzzle podium.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
Fabian wrote:
Couldn't spot any big improvements over the published run tbh, probably voting no.
Did you see Cookie Mountain?
This run is not only 14 seconds faster within the first 20 or so minutes, but it also shows off very cool new ISM glitches.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
CoolKirby wrote:
Thanks for the beautiful encode, Cronikeys! I don't know what you used to encode it like that, but it reminds me of playing the game for the first time with the hq2x filter.
Amazing run, guys. Loved seeing all those new glitches and optimized routes. Looking forward to the next WIP.
No problem =) YouTube crashed while I was uploading it (started giving me "Internal Server Errors" on the upload page) and somehow the sound got like .3 seconds off during the last five minutes or so.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
RingRush wrote:
Using the slope climbing trick from Banjo Kazooie (eg Ticker's Tower), you can get to the wooden part at the top of Honey B's Beehive. However, I have been unable to do make the last jump from the white part to the brown part and still reset my slope timer. If you can do this, you should be able to scale the brown wood more and possibly flutter to a slope on the outskirts of the level. From there, it looks you can use slope resets to work your way past the Cliff Top entrance, around to the back side of the wall, and all the way across the screen to the Pine Grove entrance, which would skip the Fire Egg switch and presumably allow a TAS. It'd waste time, but at least the run can go on (and it would be a cool trick anyways).
Relevant video on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp6LJ8pD1-k
I'll try to look for one of those skips you mentioned. They're within the realm of possibility (more so than a working N64 emulator).
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
SwordlessLink has expressed interest in TASing Banjo-Tooie. Does anyone have an update with its TAS-ability in Mupen?
I've also found a lot of new glitches:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzGKgGmE443V2Ie6rXBrY2OY7LFbPYC68
Once the new finds start slowing down, Pjii from SDA (and current BT world record holder for all categories) is going to route it out using my new glitches.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-bqW72DvhI
Method for getting all the remaining notes in Clanker's Cavern and a faster way to clip into a cabin in Rusty Bucket Bay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VllsR1QR91k
Demonstration of a weird glitch that places Banjo in the wrong area during a cutscene. I thought it might lead to an 810 note door skip, but upon further testing it is unlikely (unless the cutscene end can be prevented and you can gain control of Banjo).
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
Kirkq wrote:
Cronikeys had the idea to use a talon trot "skid" to rejump and get to the Clanker's Cavern puzzle portrait to open the world early without shock jump. This should save a bit of time in 100% if possible.
This one was Ringrush's idea, but yeah thank you for posting those and working so hard on them Kirk =)
Joined: 7/12/2011
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Location: Indianapolis
I found this silly lil' clip in Rusty Bucket Bay. It might be useful as an oob warp to the beginning of the level. It also shows a weird way to use the edge glitch as means of clipping that reminds me of the way used on the left side of the Grunty door.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQDV4gwhIj8
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
Patashu wrote:
What happens if you go to furnace fun, escape a mini game, go to furnace fun, use the 'fly under the panels and backflip up into them' trick (or gameshark) and go straight to a minigame panel?
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
bkDJ wrote:
Cronikeys wrote:
I also wonder what happens if you go to a different challenge area, like escape the bee challenge and go to the tile matching pyramid.
A timer starts and Grunty says what she would normally say for that minigame in Furnace Fun and when the time runs out you're back at the tile you started on. It's really weird :s
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
Kyman wrote:
EDIT: I recall hacking going OOB in a minigame before, I'm pretty sure you get loaded in the level it's in.
You start at Furnace Fun if you fall OOB in a minigame. I just tested this with MHS.
EDIT: Actually, if you touch the "door loading zone" for the minigames, you go back to the level but it's only like semi-loaded. There are no notes. Still testing... will update.
EDIT: Hmmm... I think it puts you in the main level but with the flag set to not spawn notes or honeycombs. The jiggies are still there. This is really weird.
EDIT: You lose the ability to climb in whatever level you go to. Also, it doesn't go back to normal if you exit the stage. You won't have any notes, feathers, gold feathers, ability to climb, etc. until you re-enter furnace fun or go to the game you exited. For example, if you escape the bee minigame in furnace fun then go back to the bee minigame in CCW, a 30 second timer will appear and you will end up in Furnace Fun if you let it run down to 0.
