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I usually don't like low ring runs because most of them take long, winding routes and end up going extremely slow just to avoid rings.
This run however was reasonably fast and entertaining enough for me to watch through the entire thing. Yes vote, well done!
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As far as I know, rings don't affect speed and jump in Sonic Advance 3. I've never seen a difference in the velocity values in the RAM addresses.
From my experience with TASing this game, I would say that the only effect of getting boost mode is increasing your speed limit. But you would usually get boost mode from running off a booster or using Sonic's tag action, which means that, technically, boost mode increases your speed.
This is a little hard for me to explain, so here are some x-velocity values for info:
Immediate speed after 1-rev spindash = 1720
Immediate speed after 2-rev spindash = 2296
Maximum speed running (without boost mode) = 2432
Maximum speed jumping (without boost mode) = 2560
Maximum speed running (with boost mode) = 3072
Using Sonic's tag action while running = 2560
Using Sonic's tag action while rolling = 3064
Using Sonic's tag action while jumping (boost-jump) = 3072
Using Sonic's tag action while jumping off vertical surface = 4320
A red booster has two "blocks", touching both will give you 3072, touching only one gives 2432 (this assumes Sonic is in your team, and you are capable of getting boost mode). If your team can't get boost mode then you only get 2432 from running off a booster.
There's a bug in this game where if you jump the moment you land, you retain your previous x-velocity. This is sort of the reason why it's not as important to keep boost mode in SA3 than it was in SA2, because technically you can boost-jump off a vertical surface with Tails, fly and land then just keep jumping upon touching the ground to maintain 4320 speed even without boost mode (which I do a lot in my 100% TAS)
I hope this clears up some of your questions!
Edit: Sorry, I missed out your question about time taken to reach boost mode. I never really tested this out but I can assume more rings affect the time taken to reach boost mode. But still, I rarely recall a situation where a level's optimal strat requires running to reach boost mode (most of the time I just use Sonic's tag action for instant boost)
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Wow, that's really interesting. I never thought of chaining boost jumps in the water like that. Thanks for sharing.
Hmm, this is a really difficult gray area for me. Going by my intuition alone, I feel that switching to Amy+Sonic for this wouldn't be worth the entertainment and the extra time added on to the run. Of course, I could just be blinded by the fact that I've already finished my TAS and have no intention to redo it, but oh well...
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/377177739/CA3%20TA.vbm
Here's the vbm. I improved it by a frame by changing up the strat a little. It's a real shame that all the spikes are inconveniently in the way every single damn time. Could've been something like 24 or 25 if they weren't.
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Paused wrote:
Dashjump on 2015-12-06 ie 2 and half days before this submission wrote:
If everything goes well it should be done in 2-3 weeks at most.
Ha, that wasn't the most accurate prediction! Fantastic work, I've said it before, but how quickly you made this, especially considering its seemingly impeccable quality, was crazy.
My biggest questions would be the timings on the deaths in TS2 and how much real time they save. And to follow on from that, is the 'real time' based on the stage alone, of everything since the last act (ie, did you count character switches against real time?)
TASVideoAgent wrote:
Special thanks to:...and Paused - for offering help
My pleasure man; thanks for the great TAS.
Obviously a yes vote, of course.
I only take deaths to save real time in the stage itself (character switching is not counted, as they are necessary for lower in-game time). I can't remember exactly how much time the deaths save, but they most certainly did save time (I tested both out myself).
Edit: The 1st death is initially slower (in real time), but the momentum from restarting the level at the start point gives me a better angle to clear the upcoming slope/wall and save some time. The 2nd death saves about 3-4 seconds.
As for the pace of my work... haha, I was recently hospitalised and am now on a few weeks of medical leave, giving me a lot of free time (10-12 hours daily) to finish up this project. This was by no means a hastily rushed-out TAS though; I considered many possibilities at many points of the run and tested most of them out to bring the time as low as possible.
NotoriouslyEpic wrote:
Impressive TAS with a lot of varied gameplay! It's a shame it's broken up by special stages, soft resetting, chao collection dialogue, and the credits...
But I have nothing against the run itself, really good work and a yes vote from me
Thanks! :) The soft resetting to switch characters is always faster than going back to the factory ring and switching there. The frequent resets do mess with the pace of the run, but I rather have that than using slower suboptimal teams to go through levels.
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Route 99 Act 1Route 99 Act 2Sunset Hill Act 2
I think you have to open them with a completed game file, because they don't start from snapshots.
Update on 100% TAS: doing Cyber Track 3 now! Cyber Track boss completed, saved 1 frame from any% TAS (timing: 46.62)
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Yeah, my schedule is kinda free at the moment, so I'm putting quite a lot of time into this TAS daily. If everything goes well it should be done in 2-3 weeks at most.
I would love to use other teams wherever possible too, but ultimately T+S is always faster because of 1) their faster spindash-fly-land-jump start, 2) Ability to "control" jumping distance with flight, without losing any speed, 3) that broken boost-off-downhill glitch, which combined with flying, makes T+S the most broken team in the game.
A+S may be faster in certain stages because of the hammer attack boosting springs' velocity and jump height (which I've done in a separate Route 99 Act 1 IL). However I noticed that this isn't very useful for every spring; I know for a fact that the springs in Sunset Hill Act 2 (which uses A+S for the real time record) only give you a burst of speed for 1 frame.
Adding a reset to switch to a slower team only piles on more real time and in-game time, which I feel isn't worth the little bit of entertainment. I'd rather do IL TASes like my first few uploads, showing different teams.
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Progress so far, listing levels in order (will update this post):
Route 99 Act 3 - 0:48.68 (T+S)
Route 99 Act 2 - 0:44.05 (T+S)
Route 99 Act 1 - 0:40.07 (T+S)
Route 99 Boss - 0:57.28 (T+S)
Sunset Hill Act 3 - 1:00.82 (S+T)
Sunset Hill Act 1 - 0:30.23 (T+S)
Sunset Hill Act 2 - 0:31.93 (T+S)
Sunset Hill Boss - 0:34.40 (T+S)
Ocean Base Act 3 - 0:50.53 (T+S)
Ocean Base Act 1 - 0:45.07 (K+T)
Ocean Base Act 2 - 1:14.13 (S+T)
Ocean Base Boss - 0:39.10 (S+K)
Toy Kingdom Act 3 - 1:04.88 (S+T)
Toy Kingdom Act 2 - 0:53.42 (T+S)
Toy Kingdom Act 1 - 0:39.83 (T+S)
Toy Kingdom Boss - 1:23.47 (T+S)
Twinkle Snow Act 1 - 0:56.17 (T+S)
Twinkle Snow Act 2 - 0:53.62 (T+S)
Twinkle Snow Act 3 - 0:52.72 (T+S)
Twinkle Snow Boss - 0:36.73 (T+S)
Cyber Track Act 2 - 0:36.23 (T+S)
Cyber Track Act 1 - 0:37.45 (K+S)
Cyber Track Act 3 - 1:28.33 (S+T)
Cyber Track Boss - 0:46.62 (K+A)
Chaos Angel Act 2 - 1:35.90 (S+C)
And the special stages ring counts:
SS1 - 240
SS2 - 263
SS3 - 269
SS4 - 284
SS5 - 275
SS6 - 324
Link to video
Part 3 + part 4! Time for more commentary...
The beginning of OB3 may look a little sloppy, but that's because I have to wait for the moving block cycle anyway. That underwater stretch with the 2nd Chao took me a really long time to optimise and it's one of the many times I wish I used S+T instead, but T+S is definitely faster because of the many boost jumps.
OB1 requires Knuckles, and I touch a checkpoint and abuse death to save both real time and a huge chunk of in-game time. OB2 was pretty straightforward, S+T to make high jumps.
I also collect the key in OB2 instead of OB3. Both levels' keys don't take up any extra time to collect, but I have to do OB3 first to avoid an additional reset to change teams.
As for the Ocean base boss, it was particularly difficult to manipulate him to be on the far right corner for the last hit (that's why there's a slight delay in the 7th hit). Managed to save 2 frames from nitsuja's timing.
Toy Kingdom required a lot of route planning. I mapped out a few key locations in the 3 acts, and found that act 1 and act 3 both have convenient key locations from the last chao to the goal ring. But act 3 requires a team switch to S+T, so I do act 3 first to avoid an additional reset back to T+S for the boss.
For the zone boss, I actually had fun doing this. nitsuja used delayed hits at certain points to manipulate his attacks, but I instead land every hit as early as possible while using other movements to manipulate the attacks. I also do the "always kill the 3 small enemies popping out" thing that nitsuja did, and torture Sonic to death wherever possible. I managed to save a whopping 15 frames on this boss.
That's it for today! Twinkle Snow zone looks really difficult to run through, but I'll try my best. Will map out some keys before working on it.
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I managed to get that ring you missed in SS3, for a total of 269. Looks like you just need really good positioning.
No uploads today, but I'm done with Ocean Base zone except the boss (which I'm dreading).
Timings so far:
Ocean Base 3 - 0:50.53 (T+S)
Ocean Base 1 - 0:45.07 (K+T)
Ocean Base 2 - 1:14.13 (S+T)
Ocean Base boss - 0:39.10 (S+K) >> improved 2 frames from nitsuja's TAS
This will be the first (and I hope the only) zone which I use 4 different teams, one for each act and the boss. Kind of a bummer because this is also the most inconveniently structured zone overworld...
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Link to video
Part 2! I've already completed Sunset Hill zone (yeah, I'm really free at work :P).
I originally wanted to do Acts 1 and 2, then end with Act 3. This is because one of the key locations is right beside the 3rd Chao in Act 3. However I learned the hard way that, somehow, keys near your character don't seem to "spawn" immediately, no matter what. The only way would be to die and respawn at a checkpoint to make the key appear, which is a lot slower. This forced a re-route, doing acts 3-1-2 in that order.
The act 1 and act 3 timings bother me somehow, being 0:30.23 and 1:00.82 respectively (dammit, why can't I get a nice sub?!) I've no plans to redo them yet, as I've spent quite a lot of effort optimizing them.
For the special stage, the 2nd part has a series of 3 grey enemies lined up in a row, killing one of which will give you 5 rings. I've tried, but it seems impossible to kill more than one in any row.
Finally, the boss fight - yet another absolute nightmare. The first 7 hits are child's play, but the last hit is so damn random. Depending on how you attack him on the last hit, he can bounce around randomly after dying, causing a lot of variation to the final time. Miraculously, I manage to pull off a hit which caused a much shorter delay before regaining my controls. I'm really satisfied with the final time (0:34.40, compared to nitsuja's 0:34.72).
Another small point I'd like to add for the boss fight is that I intentionally took a few hits, to abuse the invincibility to land some tricky hits much easily (unlike nitsuja, who didn't take damage even once in the boss).
Thanks for reading my long rant, hope you enjoy my WIPs! :D
EDIT: I just noticed the delay in pressing A to exit the dialogue at 2:10 (video timing). This problem came about because of hex editing. Specifically, I originally started with Act 1, followed by acts 2 and 3. The chao collected at 2:10 was the 1st chao i collected, and somehow the dialogue would scroll some 30 frames longer than it would if I picked it up later.
I tried hex editing away the 30-frame delay, and this unfortunately caused the Sunset Hill boss to desync because of randomness. I had to re-instate the delay to make it sync back.
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@kirbymastah: it doesn't save that much time, I'm afraid. The idea is to scroll the screen higher so Gmel kinda "drops" quicker. Anyway, the time savings from that alone is very minimal compared to your positioning (and the boss's positioning) after the last hit. Hence why it took me way over 2 hours to perfect the Route 99 boss, haha :P
@Paused: Yeah, I'm already using a 100% game completed snapshot to map out the important keys. As I'm typing this I've already completed Sunset Hill 1 and 2 (both stages each have timings of 30.XX).
About the movie objectives, I'll be following nitsuja's same goals, which are:
Goals
In order of highest to lowest priority, the goals were:
beat all levels from a new game without playing any level twice
fastest (sum of) in-level times
fastest time
And of course, with a 100% completion on top of that list!
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Thanks for the info! I really appreciate your effort to check out the emulator version. I'll test it out soon!
I was stupid enough to not do my research before starting on the run, and I only saw mike89's run after I uploaded that WIP. I've already done some hex editing and do R99 Act 3 first, then followed by 2 and 1 in that order. Will be replacing my previous video with a fully completed Route 99 zone (link will be updated in my previous post).
The Route 99 boss was an absolute nightmare to optimise. I only managed to save 3 frames from nitsuja's run of the same boss, due to discovering a trick where jumping higher into the G-mel boss arena makes him spawn earlier.
It's a shame that the maps on TSC don't show key locations. I'll probably have to collect all the 10 chao in a zone during a test run then map out all the possible key locations myself.
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Link to video
Hi everyone, I've decided to start working on a 100% TAS of this game. Hoping to get some feedback from viewers as I post my WIPs here.
My strategy in each zone, in a nutshell, would be:
1) collect all Chao in each Act
2) collect the Zone Chao
3) go back to one Act, get a key
4) complete the Special Stage with as many rings as possible, get the Emerald
5) defeat the zone boss.
Does anyone know if the key appears immediately in the level after all 10 Chao are collected? If that works, I won't have to reenter the level to get the key.
Not related to my run, but I've tried playing back nitsuja's any% run on vba, and the emulator doesn't recognise the Reset function somehow. When he resets after the Route 99 boss, my emulator just runs the movie without the reset and it desyncs from there. Anyone can help out with this?
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kirbymastah wrote:
Nice IL TAS's, DashJump. For reference, those team selections are already known and implemented in TSC ILs, and also some runs I do.
For reference you can watch my ILs:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3pBMjeS6rYhtATXYSp6sMrRoZuNBzOJV
Werster has a set of ILs too, which I learned off of:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKdCHbtiZdhDpMCXisUDPj48dX6aaE1vn
Also, for Ocean Base 3, have you considered using cheese for the speed shoes? I do that in real time runs and it's consistent, but I'm not sure if there's a way to use cheese while maintaining boost mode.
Also, unrelated, but it'd be great if you could somehow replicate this and figure out why/how this happens:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gpzeugs6fM
I can imagine that it would be faster for chaos angel 2.
Good luck!
Yeah, I subscribed to you a few days ago, I think. I probably won't be doing any more Sonic Advance 3 TASes because nitsuja already has really well-optimized runs on most levels. I'll only do a TAS of a certain stage it I realize that another team is better at that stage (like how Qwerty used K+A in Ocean Base 2).
I tried using the Chao attack for the shoes, but I couldn't maintain boost mode that way. Although I'm not sure if losing boost mode could help save time. It seems that TAS-wise, T+S still wins over S+C on this stage (as it probably should, as T+S is in my opinion the most broken team in this game).
I couldn't replicate that rail glitch, or rather, I couldn't be bothered to find out the proper position to do the glitch, lol. To me, it looked like you have to somehow get your character (not Knuckles) onto the rail somehow, while still riding on Knuckles' back.
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Anty-Lemon wrote:
-snip-
Thanks a lot! Yeah, I don't have any knowledge of coding/programming in the slightest. It's hard to start learning everything from scratch too. Once again, you've really helped me a lot, thank you.
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Anty-Lemon wrote:
Dashjump wrote:
No idea how to search for X/Y position, could anyone help out? Really appreciated.
Position is a signed 3-byte int, subpixels is an unsigned byte
X pos: 0x030015D1
x sub: 0x30015D0
y pos: 0x30015D5
y sub: 0x030015D4
Since VBA doesn't have a 3-byte read function, you can use this function instead
local function read3bytesigned(addr)
local hi = memory.readbytesigned(addr + 2)
local lo = memory.readword(addr)
return bit.lshift(hi, 16) + lo
end
Thanks, I really appreciate your reply, but how exactly do I add this into my existing lua script? I don't have any knowledge of scripts at all, all I did was copy over another lua and substitute the addresses.
As a reference, here's the Sonic Advance 2 .lua script by Mukki, which I used to create the SA3 lua:
Edit: I've tried making this. Is it correct?
local Xpixel = 0x030015D1
local Xsubpixel = 0x030015D0
local Xposition
local Ypixel = 0x030015D5
local Ysubpixel = 0x030015D4
local Yposition
local Xvelocity = 0x030015D8
local Yvelocity = 0x030015DA
local Timer = 0x0300094E
local function read3bytesigned(Xpixel)
local hi = memory.readbytesigned((Xpixel) + 2)
local lo = memory.readword(Xpixel)
return bit.lshift(hi, 16) + lo
end
local function read3bytesigned(Ypixel)
local hi = memory.readbytesigned((Ypixel) + 2)
local lo = memory.readword(Ypixel)
return bit.lshift(hi, 16) + lo
end
while true do
-- gui hud
gui.opacity(0.70)
gui.drawbox(145,3,239,45,"#00008b", "#dcdcdc")
Xposition = memory.readbyte(Xpixel) + (memory.readbyte(Xsubpixel)/256)
gui.text(149,5, "X-Position: " ..Xposition)
Yposition = memory.readbyte(Ypixel) + (memory.readbyte(Ysubpixel)/256)
gui.text(149,13, "Y-Position: " ..Yposition)
gui.text(149,21, "Xvelocity: " ..memory.readwordsigned(0x030015D8))
gui.text(149,29, "Yvelocity: " ..memory.readwordsigned(0x030015DA))
gui.text(149,37, "Timer: " ..memory.readword(0x0300094E))
vba.frameadvance()
end
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GoddessMaria15 wrote:
Is there a lua script or any addresses for Speed and positioning?
local Xvelocity = 0x030015D8
local Yvelocity = 0x030015DA
local Timer = 0x0300094E
while true do
-- gui hud
gui.opacity(0.70)
gui.drawbox(161,3,230,29,"#00008b", "#dcdcdc")
gui.text(165,5, "Xvelocity: " ..memory.readwordsigned(0x030015D8))
gui.text(165,13, "Yvelocity: " ..memory.readwordsigned(0x030015DA))
gui.text(165,21, "Timer: " ..memory.readword(0x0300094E))
vba.frameadvance()
end
Here's the .lua I put together with little to no coding knowledge. I didn't write it myself, I copied it from Mukki's SA2 lua and simply ported in the different addresses for this game.
No idea how to search for X/Y position, could anyone help out? Really appreciated.
_____________________
EDIT: And here's my first ever attempt at TASing this game:
Link to video
Not very good, and it loses to nitsuja's 0:39.43 timing (T+S), but this could give real-time speedrunners a good idea on S+C's potential on this stage.
EDIT #2: Sorry for the spam, here's another one of Route 99 Act 1 with Amy+Sonic, beats the current TAS by half a second but can be improved a lot more.
Link to video
And another one - [TAS] Sonic Advance 3 - Route 99 Act 2 (S+C) - 0:34.55Link to video
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I'd love to start working on Sonic Advance 3 TASing. I probably wouldn't do a full game run, maybe only individual levels but still I'm wondering if anyone has any information on important values/addresses to watch.
Also I agree with Paused here, I really do feel that a full game TAS with all characters unlocked would provide for more entertainment. I for one would love to see Route 99 Act 2 completed with the optimal team (S+C i think) in the fastest possible timing.
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Hi everyone,
Here's the final TAS of Knuckles in Sonic Advance 2:
Link to video
I originally wanted to submit the movie, but in a cruel twist of fate the vbm file mysteriously disappeared after I recorded and uploaded to youtube.
All I have left now is an incomplete movie file up till XX Zone's Aero Egg, and honestly I can't find any motivation to redo the final parts.
Hope you enjoy the TAS.
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GoddessMaria15 wrote:
Ahh~ so you have risen again! Cool ^^
I tried to start the project myself, but cannot get it nor understand it... Trying to replicate things by visual video isn't so easy to do when things are done so precisely. Needless to say, I've given up on SA2...
Well, I've more or less forgotten most of the tricks I used too lol. I'll try uploading a few more WIPs here and request for some suggestions from you all. Hope it won't take too long to complete the full run.
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Hi everyone,
Some of you might remember my Sonic Advance 2 Knuckles TAS from 2-3 years ago. The full TAS's link is below, although I have since improved almost every level a few months after that run was published. Regrettably, I had to stop working on the project due to real life commitments.
I'm thinking of returning to complete the TAS, if i'm not wrong I should be at Egg Utopia 1, looking for the perfect frame to start the level to avoid certain moving obstacles.
No promises on whether or not it'll be completed, but I certainly will try my best.
Link to video
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I'm using VBA-RR v23.5 for TASing Sonic Advance 2. Recently I started using TAS Movie Editor to splice in some input from my old TAS, but I need to know the frame number of the movie to do that. VBA doesn't show the frame number anywhere, so does anyone know an easy way for me to see this number? Thank you for your time.
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I redid the Sonic Advance 2 "Knuckles" run again, and I'm up to Music Plant 1 now. I've saved quite a lot of frames so far.
LF1 - 32.87 (-0.30)
LF2 - 28.77 (-0.00)
EHT - 5.62 (-0.00)
HC1- 39.55 (-0.30)
HC2 - 39.93 (-0.62)
EBT - 6.52 (-0.00)