Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(485)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1140
Location: Ukraine
Graviton wrote:
As someone who has quite a bit of knowledge of the game and the speedrun, here is a short list of the most important TAS-only and/or real-time viable strategies that are either not utilized or under-utilized in this run:
Neutral reset/Speed multipliers
Resetting the control stick neutral to "down" means that when the stick is at rest, the game thinks you are holding up. When you then hold up on the stick, the game reads this as "even more up" and you move significantly faster. Also, the use of toggle strafe in conjunction with running at an angle (strafe-running) to increase speed is lacking in this TAS. I would estimate that upwards of five minutes, if not more, are lost by not using both of these tricks to their fullest extent.
It should be noted as well that the TAS appears to not adjust the control sensitivity in any way, severely hindering the ability to turn quickly around corners. This is a significant source of time that is bled throughout the run.
Advanced enemy manipulation
Enemies, when manipulated properly, can open doors and lower certain elevators, eliminating the need to activate them yourself. There doesn't appear to be any purposeful use of this in the run.
Spawn prevention
Standing over the spawn point of certain enemies can prevent them from spawning. Manipulating enemies to walk over another enemy spawn point can also prevent a spawn. This is particularly useful for preventing the spawn of very strong enemies that require a nontrivial amount of time to kill.
Multiple trigger skips
This game has a prolific use of movement based triggers that spawn enemies, raise and lower floors, and many other things. The best use of skipping these triggers is to prevent the spawn of enemies that get in your way, which can be done on several levels. The TAS makes use of this only once as far as I can tell.
Damage range manipulation
The nature of weapons in this game is such that damage is dealt on a range from a minimum to a maximum value every shot. This means that enemies that usually take three rockets can take two rockets if you are lucky, or 4 rockets if you are unlucky. This applies to a majority of the enemies in the game, and the TAS fails to manipulate the randomness to ensure enemies are always killed with the least amount of ammo (and in turn shortest amount of time) whenever possible.
Proper BFG usage
The TAS does not utilize the BFG to its fullest potential, often using several more shots than optimal for cyberdemons. If a TAS manipulates the BFG to output its maximum or near maximum damage output, cyberdemons should never take more than two BFG shots to kill.
-----------------------------
Along with these, there are several instances of poor routing or time wasted killing enemies that can easily be ran past. Most instances of these sub-optimal routing decisions appear to be a result of them be done in prior real-time speedruns, as I assume these were used as a reference in the making of this TAS. Many of these routes have since been obsoleted. Also, general ammo management leaves much to be desired.
I am glad that this game has started to receive attention from people, but as of now there is still so much that needs to be improved. I look forward to seeing any improvements and would gladly volunteer my time and knowledge to helping anyone (including Dimon) who wishes to make a more optimal TAS for this amazing game.
Knowing all this, you could actually TAS this game a big time before I did! There are some videos about Doom 64 on your YouTube channel: I'm sure you TASed that part of the levels. My run is awesome anyway!
Advanced enemy manipulation: show me an example of this! I knew that it is, but making this for saving time is vacancy!
With the rest I'm unfortunately agreed =( Damn, I know how BFG works and how manipulate the high damage, but the enemies were so strong anyway!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(485)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1140
Location: Ukraine
Aqfaq wrote:
This is not bad by any means. Tasvideos standard is just so damn high.
Voting yes for the effort and for the ambitious first submission!
Doom! <3
Thank you for understanding! For newbie like me, this movie is awesome! I TASed a big game for the first time. I expected that tasvideos accepts all games that aren't TASed to give people more fun, according to what TAS is difficult to make, like this.
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(485)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1140
Location: Ukraine
Garrison wrote:
While the time may look impressive compared to what human play has achieved, there's some very fundamental gaps in the TASers knowledge in regards to movement speed. The way speed works in a nutshell is that there are several stacking speed modifiers that this run apparently does none of. Strafe Running with the strafe buttons is one factor, Strafe Running with use of the Strafe On button is another (this one is more tricky due to the fact that it locks you facing one direction. A major speed modifier that's actually really fundamental to Doom 64 running and sets it aside from the PC Doom games is called neutral reset. Basically you can reset the neutral position on an N64 analog stick and setting the neutral position of the stick to all the way back essentially gives the player double the run speed when moving forward. This comes at the cost of your ability to back up via analog stick and can only be achieved with the specific back button.
Another thing that could potentially be optimized further is playing with a higher sensitivity to make turns quicker and get enemies out of your way faster. Enemies in general are not manipulated all that well in this TAS. It's a shame to have this TAS discovered in a "complete" state, but there's just such a large gap in understanding that someone with the knowledge could easily shave upwards of ten minutes off of this.
A little agreed, but some objects like stairs (had this on map 3) and switches (had on map 26) can not go down if you run too fast! Also I made lots compensative move to turn faster!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(485)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1140
Location: Ukraine
Dan_ wrote:
I agree with everything Garrison said.
I only watched the first 4 stages, and then skipped to the last level after seeing him miss the 1st secret stage. It's a shame that he skips the secrets, because the fully powered laser is way stronger than the BFG and can melt cyberdemons and the final boss very quickly. I'm not sure if the time it takes to play the three secret levels is worth it, but personally I think an "all-stages" run should be done, and it would be much more entertaining than an any% run.
That is, all story stages. There are a few extra hidden bonus stages that could be interesting to see TASed (Hectic and Cat and Mouse especially), but I wouldn't expect to see them included with the rest of the game.
Yes, TASing this game without Laser Gun was too difficult, but I saved about 1:30 minuts in total! I was going to take one of the 3 demon artifacts anyway to pass the last stage faster: 2 teleports is tolerantly and easy, but 3 is hard and confusing! Also, in vain you watched only 4 levels: after 7th map I was doing the best!
Hidden stages will be TASed soon! Help me to get on the 3rd hidden map (In the void) to see TAS with "normal weapons" or I'll type the password!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Yeah! I'm going to send the movie on TASVideos next weak, because I won't have the internet to answer the questions while the judge goes! I'd like my movie to be published anyway. Some games are reTASed for 5 time and all were published, but many people know this game and know the defects =(
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(485)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1140
Location: Ukraine
I'd like to present you a tool-assisted speedrun on the Pirate port of Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero named Mortal Kombat 5: Sub-zero, what was realised in 2000 and I even had a cartridge with this game.
Link to video
This run was done in 48:30. I have found all mistakes and ready to redo the run: it will be faster and less boring than now (We have the vault anyway!).
Answer the question, please: Will the judge accept this GAME? Not TAS: TAS will be in best view!
P.S: ROMs name is Mortal Combat 5 (Unl) [c][!] - what does [c] mean?
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(485)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1140
Location: Ukraine
Ilari wrote:
Dimon12321 wrote:
Dual Core and Idle skipping on, DSP HLE emulation (fast)
Using Dual Core or Idle Skipping for TASing is a very bad idea. Also DSP HLE is a bad idea.
Yes, the TAS-safe settings of these are quite a bit slower...
I.e. it's difficult to say enough or not... I'll download the game again (I psyched that day and deleted the game) and write again.
P.S: your DOS runs are awesome!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(485)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1140
Location: Ukraine
Ilari wrote:
Dimon12321 wrote:
Is it possible to TAS this game without desyncs? I passed the first stage for 3 times and haven't got the good result yet! What did I do wrong?
Is controller type set to gamepad or wiimote?
Gamepad should be relatively stable if you set the settings correctly (Especially Dualcore off, Idle skipping off, DSP to either LLE option, EURGB60 off if NTSC game).
Wiimote just causes desyncs sometimes.
Gamepad. Dual Core and Idle skipping on, DSP HLE emulation (fast), PAL-60 used (I agreed that this option caused desync, not looked twice), but I play GC game, not Wii! I thought it relates to Wii games, because this option is placed in Wii settings!
I'll change my settings to yours, but I'm not sure the game will play 60 FPS. The games are confusing on this emulator: Resident Evil 4 works great without any speed-ups, but Madagascar's FPS is not higher that 10!
You probably seen my processor: AMD Phenom ii X4 (Quard-core, 2,8 Ghz). It's enough to emulate GC game, isn't it??
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(485)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1140
Location: Ukraine
Let's talk about the game, which we all like to play! It give us lots of fun and everybody enjoys it!
I've made a short TAS:
(EDIT 20-05-2023: the video is long gone. Please scroll down to see actual progress)
I hope you like it! If you don't like it, please answer the question:
Is it possible to TAS this game without desyncs? I passed the first stage for 3 times and haven't got the good result yet! What did I do wrong?
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Active player
(485)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1140
Location: Ukraine
I'd like to TAS this games by myself, but I have lots of desyncs in the playback (using Dolphin 4.0):
TMNT 2003, 2007
Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
The Incredible Hulk
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutant Melee: has desyncs with spawning enemies and gives random power-ups! On gamecube I didn't manage to pass even 3 stages! A PS2 TAS:
Link to video
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow[/video]
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
