Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
You are probably using a wrong ROM if anti-piracy is in effect.
The best choice for TASing is Desmume 0.9.9 at this point. While Desmume 0.9.11 is probably more accurate overall, TASes made with 0.9.11 are hard to sync due to SRAM issues.
I know the RTA runs end after the Ghetsis fight, but IMHO defeating the (supposedly) hardest boss that rolls credits is the better ending point when you don't need to do anything different before rolling credits for the first time, and that's how it works for Johto games.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
https://www.speedrun.com/pkmnbw1/thread/iia5e
It's probably faster to use Tepig line all the way to the end for this game. I think it would be good to make becoming the champion the end point of the run, like Kaphotics's run did, since defeating Red is considered the end point of G/S/C/HG/SS runs.
You might find Masterjun's Black 2 WIP(http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/44378127928492667) helpful, although I can't sync it.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
It has been said that Vault does not allow dirty SRAM.
However, if I make a Castlevania Portrait of Ruin Sister Mode run that starts from clean SRAM(parts of mtbRc's input might be used), would it be eligible for Vault?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
Alyosha wrote:
I have just committed some major improvements to Gambatte from gifvex (mcmaeve on github.)
The improvement fix Pinball Fantasies on Gambatte, restore BIOS support (and make it mandatory), restores ability to play GB games in GBC mode, and make a few other small accuracy improvements.
These improvements should help in creating some runs that work on console. If anyone is interested please try out the dev build.
Is it now possible to use GBC bios under CGB on GBA mode? I know the actual bios is still not dumped, but is the hacky solution from Gamebatte Speedrun included?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
It's probably a better idea to start the run from clean SRAM because you can collect certain A coins before beating 7-2 for the first time and then go back to those stages to collect eggs.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
FractalFusion wrote:
Fortranm: I did some testing, and I am nearly 100% sure that whether Quick Claw works or not is determined at the beginning of the previous round of turns after you select your move; e.g. if you want to manipulate Quick Claw for round n, you have to time selecting your move for round n-1. I didn't test for the first round but I think it should be determined at some point after entering battle.
Just something in case you're making more Diamond/Pearl TASes. It does make manipulation more difficult though (since it occurs at the same time as manipulating the first move of a round for crit/range/miss).
Thanks for the information!
Quick Claw wouldn't be useful for "no save/reset" with Kazza route since Kazza will need to hold Zap Plate during late game. The same goes for any% glitchless with Chimchar/Dialga route for similar reasons.
If there is any chance that Machop/Machoke is used for any categories with the classical Guts abuse, you would need to manipulate Quick Claw for next turn while manipulating paralysis or/and critical hit for the current turn at the same time. Such route would probably be unfeasible unless the run is made with a bot.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
FractalFusion wrote:
- Needing to trigger the ! on both trainers, as opposed to talking to them.
- Extra dialogs from having two Pokemon gain experience after each KO.
- Time spent because of the weaker Pokemon leveling.
- Potential experience lost from main battler.
- Extra time from needing to select target.
- When opponent trainers have differing numbers of Pokemon, needing the weaker Pokemon to waste time somehow when there is no target.
- In this TAS, extra messages from things like Gyarados's Intimidate (affects both Pokemon) and Croagunk's Anticipation (because of weaker Pokemon having Flying moves).
- Possibly more delays (critical hit, super effective) from needing the weaker Pokemon to KO enemy in one hit.
These are good points. My impression that doing double battles is faster comes from my experience of making the testrun back in 2015. I didn't know much about micro-optimization back then so the result of comparison might not be very accurate.
When opponent trainers have differing numbers of Pokemon, needing the weaker Pokemon to waste time somehow when there is no target.
This is not an serious issue in this run since most of double battles involve trainers with the same number of Pokemon. The fact that Murkrow knows Fly also helps.
Edit: Actually, the only double battle in this run involving trainers with different numbers of Pokemon is the one at Lake Verity, and this one is mandatory.
Another note worthy thing is that the PP for Fire Wheel is scarce. If I do as many single battles as possible, I probably will need to pick up one more Ether at Mt. Coronet. Doing this might allow me to save a few crits by using Fire Wheel more often at Mt. Coronet though, so the total net effect is hard to estimate.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
FractalFusion wrote:
In addition, the number of forced trainer battles is ridiculous. There are 97 forced trainer battles in this game (counting double battles as 2); more than the main-game of any game prior (except maybe Pokemon Crystal, which I didn't check). This is nearly twice that of Ruby/Sapphire.
I'm almost sure that Crystal has less forced trainers than Gold/Silver, but this is kinda off-topic. :P
FractalFusion wrote:
So, this is why I prefer a shorter and more glitched version over a TAS which is not glitched and over 3 hours long. Strangely, Platinum has far smaller message delay, so it is theoretically possible a Platinum glitchless run could beat this TAS on time despite having more content.
Platinum glitchless RTA WR is literally 2 secs shorter than that of D/P, so you are probably correct.
However, I think D/P deserves a glitchless TAS more than Pt does because you can't skip as much of the game play as you can in D/P. Another note worthy thing is that in Pokemon games starting from Pt (and up to the end of Gen 5, at least), battle RNG does not scroll automatically once a battle starts. Therefore D/P is the last Pokemon game(TASable game, anyway) in which you can rely on getting a crit for every move you use. You will need to rely more on natural type effectiveness starting in Pt.
FractalFusion wrote:
It doesn't help that the submission text lacks some details that I wish were explained. Like, why was the Chimchar line used unlike the other TAS where Kazza (the traded Abra/Kadabra) does very well? Were there other Pokemon early in the game that could be used except that the Chimchar line is simply better? Would Quick Claw have helped with this TAS? ("We don't know how to manipulate it" is not a good excuse.)
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/30445013993013368
Kazza wouldn't be faster for glitchless, and you can see this testrun from 2016 for reference(there is little to none micro-optimization in that run though). Needless to say, trading takes a long time, and leveling up more often means more time is spent on texts. Kazza is faster for "no save/reset" mostly because you get much less exp due to skipping a large portion of the game.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/42817382838721960
This is the testrun I mentioned in the submission text of "the other TAS". Machop is used until getting the bike, and this is when I tried to manipulate Quick Claw and fail. Machop, the classical OHKO machine from Gen 3, is available before the very first gym, but it won't be as useful as it was back then since Facade is not available as a TM until post-game even if Quick Claw pattern can be manipulated effectively.
In the end, the best choice for main battle Pokemon at this point is Chimchar line.
As a side note, Chimchar can learn Facade at Lv.31, but it's not worthy to keep Chimchar unevolved until Lv.31.
For the route being used in this run, it's not worthy to get Quick Claw if I can't activate it whenever I need it.
FractalFusion wrote:
Is it really not faster to do two single battles in place of double battles whenever possible? Is it possible to use Potions at a different time (possibly to avoid low HP alarm) or find better ways of manipulating HP that avoid using Potions? Things like that.
I'm kinda sure that doing double battles is faster when each of your moves can KO an enemy, and that's what happened in the run.
Since there are only two manual HP refill in the run, they can't really help solving the noise issue. It's not very feasible to actively keep your health between 1/5 and 1/3 mark.
I actually did use the berry a little early than necessary and use a Repel at the same time since I would have to waste time manipulating encounters any way.
FractalFusion wrote:
You state "there is no known way to effectively manipulate Quick Claw pattern" based on posts from six years ago. 1) Just because it wasn't known six years ago doesn't mean it isn't known now. 2) Just because we didn't know how (or maybe we didn't try hard enough) doesn't mean others don't know how.
It is unclear how exactly the claim (as it is worded) would prove a video-only TAS to be illegitimate anyway.
I admit that the way I worded it might be a little rude, but my point stands. While a TAS without input file is not automatically illegitimized, it can seem fishy sometimes, to say the least, especially when how certain things are done are not explained. I'm not very sure about how often would Piplup line be outspeeded without the help of Quick Claw, but there is no way to tell if the author of the run simply used RAM hack to give the starter a very high speed value to outspeed all opponents.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
Thanks for the comments. The submission texts are completed and a temp encode is added. I changed the branch name to "glitchless" because that's the most descriptive one afterall.
Zowayix wrote:
I don't like "no save/reset" for the middle one because save/reset can be used for non-glitch stuff totally unrelated to the void. "Warpless" or "no glitch warps" would be preferred.
Maybe, but "no save/reset" should work for now since I did avoid saving and resetting in that run.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
FractalFusion wrote:
Finally got around to watching this one. Looks like Kadabra is pretty good as a battler (not sure about non-traded one). Also, it's great that you worked through the disobedience issues.
One advantage of the traded Abra is that it starts at Lv.7, while the wild ones on Route 203 are at Lv.4-5 and don't have boosted exp at the beginning.
Using a Pokemon with disobedience issue is surely a specialty of TAS. :)
FractalFusion wrote:
I thought Kadabra wouldn't have worked out because of how easy it is for high-level Pokemon to kill Kadabra late in the game. Fortunately the AI seems to be pretty bad. Even during the champion battle, Garchomp and Lucario could have used Earthquake but instead chose to use something else. (Guess I'm just too used to Gen 3 mechanics.)
Yeah, AI has a chance to use any moves that have effects on you. I was a little surprised as well.
FractalFusion wrote:
The journal can be used to manipulate overworld RNG. I guess (Super) Repel was used instead because the journal was too slow?
Using Repels is definitely faster than opening the journal repeatedly in large grassy areas and dungeons.
FractalFusion wrote:
Every time you enter battle, it initializes the RNG based on system time (same way as it is initialized at the beginning of the game). So I think changing when you enter battle can be used to improve on battle manipulation. Note: This doesn't change overworld RNG, overworld RNG is only interrupted and resumes after battle.
Certain fights in this run can be improved this way for sure, most notably the first gym fight, although this is the type of stuff that's hard to completely optimize without a bot.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
Spikestuff wrote:
Also because you did bring it up.
Did you actually calculate the difference in time with text between the nico TAS and you or are you just writing that to save your bacon?
Since well...
I hate to say this, but there is no movie file for that run so its legitimacy is not verifiable.
That's not a legitimate reason btw.
1. I say that mostly because that run abuses Quick Claw to make up Empoleon's slow speed, and there is no known way to effectively manipulate Quick Claw pattern. Unless the input file is made public, I will think that run is kinda fishy. Not to say that run seems to have an anonymous uploader so there isn't even a person to ask.
2. The run on Nicovideo didn't even mention which version of Desmume it used and the configuration. There can be lagging differences during screen transitions being accumulated as well.
3. While I haven't timed the exact differences caused by texts, this run is already 8 secs slower than the Japanese run by the time the professor asks you to name your rival. I hope this provides a basis for rough estimation.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
Mothrayas wrote:
• If the game has full-color graphics for Game Boy Color, Game Boy Color mode should be used. If the Super Game Boy mode also unlocks notable exclusive gameplay features, then SGB mode may also be accepted for a movie that makes use of said exclusive features.
Does it mean using SGB mode for a GBC game is not allowed/recommended when the SGB mode does not provide extra features?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
Daniel, Lord Bahamut wrote:
Fortranm wrote:
I might consider Gen 5 games at some point as well
Did Kaphotics ever end up releasing his Gen 5 notes?
With all due respect, at this point in time, it's almost safe to say that cheat codes are used for that run. It's probably the best for everyone to just pretend it never happened.
I'm rather surprised that voidless "only" saves a bit over an hour. Would you be willing to try TASing the later pokemon games on DS? Those appear highly anticipated.
I have done some routing for Platinum and might actually do a run for it in near future. I might consider Gen 5 games at some point as well, but I guess I'll leave HGSS any% for others, hopefully MKDasher if he is still interested in these games since I'm not very competent at manipulating RNG seed, which is probably required for most HGSS categories.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
The comments have been updated.
thatguy wrote:
As someone who has watched a lot of real-time Pokemon runs, this just seems like such an arbitrary category to me. To allow some applications of the tweaking glitch but ban others doesn't sit right with me. I would have preferred it if a run like this had been done on Pokemon Platinum, where the skip-to-the-end void tweak is impossible anyway. If it does end up not getting published, I'm sure it will be a great gruefood delight entry.
Yeah, maybe it will sound less arbitrary if it's "no save/reload" instead. In fact, if you start a new game with an existing save so that you can't save whatsoever, this should be the actual fasted route to beat the game.
As mentioned in the updated comments, there are some major differences between this run and a Platinum any% RTA. I have done some planning for a Platinum any% TAS, but I think the round 2 Elite 4 should be beaten in this case similar to how Red is the considered the final boss of G/S/C/HG/SS.
grassini wrote:
This seems to be a trend from Fortranm,he sends amazing TASes that follow his own rules instead of doing a TAS for the known categories,I was hoping for a glitchless like anybody else.
I have considered making a glitchless D/P run at one point, but I don't think the product would be too different from what you would expect from a RTA. It's probably gonna be either using Chimchar line all the way to the end or switching to the title legendary during the climax of the story. Using the traded Abra is definitely not worthy, as my testrun from 2015 has shown.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
Baddap1 wrote:
EZGames69 wrote:
Baddap1 wrote:
Why do you do a TAS of a romhack that is exactly the same as the original game except for the last stage?
it's not a rom hack.
My point is why did he do a TAS of a game that is exactly the same except one stage? If it really has more different levels I would have liked to see a ''Warpless'' category, but he didn't.
A run of this game using Luigi is probably more meaningful since you can't play as Luigi in original SMB.
In this version of Pokémon Crystal, players can encounter the Mythical Pokémon Celebi after entering the Hall of Fame. In the Japanese version of the Virtual Console release, after entering the Hall of Fame, when the player enters the Pokémon Communication Center they will be given the GS Ball, which is used in a series of events to encounter Celebi (in the original Japanese release of Pokémon Crystal, the player had to connect to the internet using the Mobile Game Boy Adapter to obtain the GS Ball). In the Western versions of the Virtual Console release, it has only been stated that the player can encounter Celebi after entering the Hall of Fame (the Pokémon Communication Center is replaced by a regular Pokémon Center in original the Western releases, with Celebi being exclusive to event distributions in the Western Generation II games).
Hopefully this is done by actually modifying the rom so that it can be extracted as a standard gbc rom with this feature.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Also note that these 4 values sometimes get temporarly lower...
In G&W Donkey Kong, the speed of barrels is set to a certain value at the beginning of each loop according to the difficulty level, and they increase as the time goes on until the end of the loop. Therefore, they will get lower at the beginning of next loop if the difficulty is not increasing anymore. Maybe the case for this game is similar.
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
Glad to see an improvement to one of the most majestic movie in existence. Yes vote.
Have you considered using a dirty SRAM and do the run on hard mode? In such case, would beating the game once with any% route under lv1 mode to get Konami Man and then restarting it on a lower difficulty(you will keep weapons and speed up spell in the new game+) to fight all bosses be faster?
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(951)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1127
Spikestuff wrote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong since I'm using the GBC version as a base on this question. (Yes. There's a 4th on GBC, which many sites don't know about mainly cause it was Australia only iirc, and was basically G&W3 or something.)
Isn't there an "Ultra" difficulty that also applies to Retro?
First of all, that PAL region only game(https://www.mariowiki.com/Game_Boy_Gallery) was released before all GWG games, so it's technically GWG0.
https://www.gamefaqs.com/gba/561568-game-and-watch-gallery-4/faqs/39797
According to this guide, Very Hard Mode/Star Mode is exclusive for the modern version of the games.
While the on-screen score count overflows at 999, the high score record can go up to 9999. If you wanna make a run that only plays one game in this collection, you probably should go for 9999 score.
