Posts for Korzic

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Joined: 7/16/2009
Posts: 39
I made a test WIP up through Gadis. Recorded with Snes9x 1.52-rr. (I didn't want to deal with desync issues in 1.51; hasn't caused problems yet in 1.52. And yes, I realize that Snes9x is being phased out, but since this is just a testrun, I don't feel like restarting on a new emulator right now.): http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/download/4506040768525278 Even though it's a test run, I tried to optimize it because I'm not sure if I'll even complete it. So, in the event someone else works on this game, they may as well have a hopefully decent run to compare to. Anyway, a few notes. While I didn't check skipping the Short Sword to save time, I'm pretty sure it's not worth it, mostly because killing enemies is slower. Since the slimes are the only enemies you can decently damage without it, backtracking would probably be necessary to get to level 2 by the forest, and even then, it'd likely be minimum damage (if any) to the enemies there. Regarding the misalignment glitch, that seems to happen when the screen scrolls. Along with using an item when moving to another space (while the screen's scrolling), it seems like enemy knockback will work as well, though I've yet to reproduce this. That probably means we can skip either the Roda Medicine or Herbs in the Casnan fort, as one of those was intended for use to skip the Minea Plains boss (since the Wing isn't obtained yet). I should probably upload a sample movie later, but on the Border Ridge, there was a spot where if an enemy hit me twice in rapid succession, it could propel me out of bounds slightly (two spaces, I think), but I'd be stuck there. The downside is, that particular spot seemed to be unique, in that it initially seemed to be out of bounds slightly. That, and even if this could be applied in other areas, two spaces is a really short distance, probably too short to be of much use (if any). In the crater, you'll probably notice that I killed some extra enemies before entering the first hole. That was because I had to wait a fair deal of time before I could enter (although, I think when I initially tested (heading straight for the hole), I was somehow able to enter 5 frames sooner), so I used it to grind a little bit. Lemnos can be done at level 4 (with the Middle Sword), but it's kind of slow, so I wanted to get to level 5 instead. Speaking of Lemnos, I'm not sure if it's worth it to get to level 6 or not. In any case, he's a bit tricky to deal with. Attack continuously for too long, and he's likely to charge you, and he's invulnerable in that state. Instead, it's probably better that he either shoots the fireballs or crescents at you, as he's still vulnerable then. To do this, I usually found that I had to be at least a short distance away for him to do that, so I couldn't attack him as much as I wanted. As for improvements, there are a few I'm aware of, but editing them in (well, I've only tried the first one) seems to mess with the screen transition length, causing desyncs (speaking of which, that's something else to look into - whether or not the length can be reduced, and if so, how). I know that the fastest text speed option could be selected slightly faster by using turbo left or right. Maybe avoid either the Roda Medicine/Herbs in the fort (in favor of using enemy knockback on the Minea Plains - if it works). Perhaps there's a better spot to get hit to prepare for the misalignment glitch in Komodo (as well as possibly killing said enemy?). Maybe killing some of the Border Ridge enemies slightly faster by making use of the back and forth technique seen in the first part of the forest. Possibly a better pattern against Lemnos, one where he can be damaged more often. EDIT: WIP posted up through second boss. Potential optimizations would likely just be from better enemy killing. I think hitting them early and constantly, while manipulating them towards the next screen transition is the best option. It seems as though what frame you enter a screen on can change their behavior, so that may be important for a more optimized run. As for the second boss, it looks unoptimized, but a previous pattern where he didn't move down and eventually turned blue allowed me to hit him on the exact same frame, but he used a different attack - this pattern is better because this other attack is dodged while still delivering constant damage. Not sure if it can be improved. EDIT 2: WIP posted up through Gadis. I could've manipulated him a bit better, namely his 1st appearance (I think ideally, you'd want him to stay in his starting position, or have him move straight up, and manipulate him to stay there). As far as I can tell, he can be manipulated in the way you move (same with normal enemies, to an extent), but it only seemed to change if I dodged the projectiles a little differently. Still a really solid fight, I think. I do need to eventually test if it's better to fight him at level 17 or not (I fought him at 15 (minimum); could've been 16 with better manipulation earlier on, but extra damage isn't done until at least level 17). I also realized that enemy knockback can be used to skip the Minea Plains boss, so the Roda Medicine from Casnan Fort can now be skipped. Other optimizations would be from better enemy positioning (mostly in the very early parts of the run); as mentioned above, they can be manipulated by the way you move. So, turning at certain spots can help, instead of taking the straightest way to your next destination (doesn't cost any extra time on its own). If that wasn't enough, I sometimes used brief movement stutters (1-2 frames, usually - really hard to notice without slowdown) to also help with the manipulation. Both techniques can help enemies move into favorable positions, and sometimes can result in an extra enemy kill that wouldn't happen with "optimal" movement. The Flame Sword magic was also useful at times (whatever direction you happen to be holding, that's the way the enemy will be flung when the projectile hits), but as it costs 2 MP to use, it has to save at least 2 frames (HP/MP is restored at 1 frame per point - it's partially why I used the Hero Sword magic to refill (64 HP at the cost of 50 MP)), or be worth it for an extra enemy kill.
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Joined: 7/16/2009
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Hello! I was wondering if anyone had any interest in running this game. I'd like to see a run of this created (even though the game seems pretty linear), but I don't know if I'll be the one to do it or not. I have very little TASing experience, not to mention a lack of motivation for a project like this. Despite that, I've been doing some research into it the past few days, and came across a couple of significant discoveries that help break the game somewhat, though admittedly, not as broken as I'd like. Unfortunately, it seems as though the majority of grinding is still currently necessary for the various bosses, the end result being level 28 by Guruda/Eldeel (31 is the max for this game). Anyway, in case someone else would like to work on this, here are the discoveries. This first one I hope will prove useful someday, but so far it is still a mystery (and a currently unimportant one at that). I've noticed that when wandering around the Border Ridge, I'm occasionally able to damage the bees at level 1 without a weapon, which I believe is supposed to be impossible at that point. I can't say for certain, but it seemed to happen when trying to attack them right against a wall. Anyway, I'm curious to know if this behaviour could possibly be replicated against bosses under-leveled, and if so, how. As it is, the first two bosses require level 4/5 (with the appropriate equipment, of course), but the next noteable boss (Gadis) requires level 15, Bami is level 26, and as mentioned earlier, Guruda and Eldeel are level 28. That's quite a level spike, so if the grinding could possibly be reduced somehow, it could be quite a time-saver. The next glitch involves using the Mirror Necklace (can be bought for 8,000 G in Komodo or Lance). Normally, the game doesn't let you use it while fighting bosses. However, if you use it right before initiating a boss battle, the boss will temporarily be frozen in their opening animation; how long depends on how quickly you can get through the pre-boss stuff (some bosses have dialogue before the fight, which I think eats up the stun time). For some bosses, this means you can get free hits, others not. By far the most useful boss to do this for is Eldeel. Normally, he's got all those plot mechanics before he can be damaged, but using the Mirror Necklace beforehand freezes him temporarily, and unlike some bosses, he is immediately vulnerable. This is the case even with the Radiance Sword equipped (he normally can only be damaged by the Hero Sword, excluding "magic" attacks), and if you're fast enough, you can kill him before he even has a chance to do anything. However, when I tested this at level 28, I was not able to do quite enough damage before time ran out, even making use of the misalignment glitch (detailed below). Levels 29 and above you can kill him in time with the Radiance Sword, unfortunately the transition from level 28 to 29 is another 11,000 EXP, probably too time consuming to be of use. I've tested this with the English patch, and am hoping the Japanese text scrolls fast enough to give a little more time to damage him. If not, that means that upon using the Radiance Necklace, he'll immediately go to his armored form, which should still be a good time-saver. This next glitch involves getting Adol misaligned slightly, which allows a few "necessary" events to be skipped. To do this, you need to either use the Wing or a healing item when transitioning to another space. If timed correctly, Adol's position will be on part of a space that he normally shouldn't be on, which allows him to pass certain triggers. As far as I can tell, you can't get fully out of bounds via this method, just partially. Even then, it's somewhat restricted, since when you move vertically, it seems that you can only clip (partially) through objects on Adol's right, not the left (as far as I can tell). Also, this is a pretty easy bug to correct; you simply bump into something "normally" (by pulling away a litte and running into it again), and your position should go back to normal. From my testing, it only seems to actually skip a few things, but some of those instances are really helpful. One such instance is seeing the Sage of Celceta in Selrei without the three Eyes. However, this has the drawback of needing to get to Minea later, so the Golden Pedestal can be bought from Pim (needed to get to the ancient city part of the game). Theoretically, you can see him on your first visit to Selrei, however, doing it this way means that the trigger to get to Minea never shows up (as far as I can tell). Instead, it seems that the best time to use this glitch is anytime after you talk to the elder via Flair's help (after giving Gazok the Celceta Flower). You can also use this glitch to see Lefance without the Hero Sword. You still need to talk to the Sage first (again, not too early), but afterwards, the game will let you clip on through him, provided your vertical position is misaligned and you immediately hold left. I believe this means that one could complete the game without ever obtaining the Hero Sword, though the Ice Sword would probably be needed to have enough STR to kill Bami. However, I think that'd require level 30/31 (max) to get the needed STR. (I should also note, walking through characters after talking to them is not uncommon in this game, but this instance has Adol taking a couple steps away after the conversation. This would normally be enough to prevent clipping through someone, but for some reason, being misaligned helps in this case.) Other known instances where misalignment is useful is when you first enter Komodo, Karna takes you to the elder, she normally stops you if you try to exit his house without talking him. Exiting the house at a misaligned horizontal angle means you can avoid speaking to him. In the Minea Plains, the game ordinarily makes you fight that one boss (the centaur?) before continuing to Zeptic/Lance, but you can use horizontal misalignment to clip through part of the bridge to avoid fighting him. Lastly, in the Temple of the Sun, you're supposed to talk with Lefance's 5 companions briefly, but using vertical misalignment means the event won't trigger. There's also using vertical misalignment before fighting Eldeel to actually go up and speak to him, though it's unclear if the dialogue is his, or someone else's (it's not in purple color, and he only says it once). In the English translation patch, he says "Ah, Adol. It's good to see you alive and well. Please, have a seat." This could potentially be useful to trigger the final fight a little further up, and thus, have a little extra time to hit him after using the Mirror Necklace. There are several other useful instances I had hoped this would work for, but these are the only ones I know of. A couple of failed examples are clipping through the dog in Highland (before talking to Leeza), and passing through the rock piles at the Temple of the Earth. There's more than that I've tried, but I can't think of them right now. The last known glitch is using enemy knockback to avoid triggering the scene where Adol gets struck by lightning and ends up in the Stormvale Castle. So far, this is the only known application of this glitch, but it's a nice time-saver, since you can immediately go to the Mountain of Ice. I don't think it matters, but it doesn't seem possible to do it when heading south, just north. Sometime, I'll have to try activating the scene at max level with the Radiance Sword, and see if Gadis, Bami, and Guruda can be killed in that one castle scene. So, that's about all the useful info I have (if anyone wants, I can post info about the route/minimum levels to damage enemies/bosses). Does anyone else have any more information or ideas? Is anyone even interested in seeing a run of this game? EDIT: Oh, right. Some movie files might help with a couple of the glitches. Game is "Ys IV - Mask of the Sun (J).smc", played on Snes9x v1.51 EDIT 2: Dehacked giving corrupt file links, so uploading to Mediafire. EDIT 3: Links dead, but both examples can be seen in the WIP in the post below.
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Joined: 7/16/2009
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Apologies if this has been discussed before, but I was wondering, is it possible to make a 100 coin star appear in such a position so that you can collect it and another star at the same time? For example, let's say you get the 100th coin in BoB where the red coin star appears: could they both be collected simultaneously (I know this particular case probably wouldn't be useful for the TAS; it's just an example)? Anyway, nice WIP!
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Atma wrote:
That and I seemingly can't even download that file because the link does nothing but lead me to an 'upload file' page.
You can, just scroll down and the download links should be there ("Slow Download" requires a little wait time first). Anyway, from what I've seen (up through McNeil Manor), the run is looking good so far, Janus!
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blahmoomoo wrote:
I have no issue with the second, non-streaming version of the video. Perhaps archive.org dropped your connection while downloading? Verify the file size.
I no longer have the movie file, so I can't verify the size. Archive.org did drop the connection at first, though, and when I retried, the download completed the second time without an error message (as far as I know - was doing something else while waiting for it to finish). Well, if it works fine for you, then it looks like the problem was on my end.
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That's what I did, downloaded and saved the file (both of them, actually). Only the second link had that problem.
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Mister Epic wrote:
Archive collection's page Download from Archive (MP4, 256x224, 515.9 MB) Stream from Archive (MP4, 300x224, 675.3 MB)
Hmm, perhaps it's just on my end, but the second link stopped playing around 3:50:00. No such issue with the third link, however. Anyway, nice TAS! Been following this one for quite a while, so it's nice to see it finally finished. Voting yes.
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I know it's still a ways off, but here's a little demonstration of the Tock Tower arrow maze suggestion, in case you couldn't determine the route from my previous post: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/582362862/BoFTockTower.smv
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In Tock Tower's arrow maze, around frame 767,750 (this was during your second trip, I don't remember the frame number for your first trip), you took the left <- arrow, but there's also a <- arrow right below that point. Wouldn't going down be slightly faster? Also, how much damage is Karn's Puka form dealing to the later bosses? If it's still maximum, I'm wondering if it might be better to use that instead of Agni (except for the good ending), and instead have the hero use Rudra or something.
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Looks good so far. A shame that the 12.5% HP thing doesn't seem to work (probably wouldn't be useful at this point anyway). One question though. Any reason you didn't have Nina use the E. Key to help with the first two Bowman/Lancer battles (doesn't seem needed in the third)? In the second battle, at least, it looks like that might save a little bit of time.
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Not sure if you've seen this or not, but I saw this post over on the SDA forum regarding the Gremlin's "second wind". Assuming the knowledge is accurate (I have very limited knowledge of the inner workings of this game), perhaps it could be useful in other battles as well...?
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janus wrote:
another I would like to see : tales of eternia (tales of destiny II in the US). One of my favoritre soundtracks (especially the techno-like music like celestia boss battle). Those move combinations should be easy to manipulate
Seconded. This is one game I'd love to see a TAS of, mostly to see how the battles are handled.
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I'd be interested, but due to the nature and length of this game (nothing particularly special about the gameplay, plus it's kind of long), I have to wonder just how entertaining it would be. That's just my opinion, though.
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I've been following this run for a while, and it's very impressive. A shame you've had to do so many restarts, though... Anyway, should you find yourself short a WiseBL, one possible option is to use 1 WiseBL and 1 WFruit in the Habaruku battle (you currently use 2 WiseBLs); that should do just enough damage to kill him.