Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Cpadolf wrote:
So you are going to do a complete testrun before continuing on the run?
Since we decided to do an RBO instead (the improvements for the any% are so subtle if comparing to Hero's run, so it would not be worth spending months of optimiziation just for the timer) so we need to test potential ammo issues. We are doing 15/15/30 ammowise and skipping 2 energy tanks over the usual. If everything goes as we predict it should, then it will work out well. We are gonna test different routes, different ammo issues and different room strategies, finally ending with a superoptimized LN.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Saturn wrote:
And congratulations ... As a reward for this nice run
....what. Hurry up and post nice runs people! If so we might be rewarded by more spoilers from Saturn's any%! This is a chance of a lifetime.
Isn't it time you just released your old any%, since you don't work on it anymore ._.
Furthermore, why didn't you just savestatify it. Does your any% even exist? Or do you just create randoms smv's on things other people have found, record them as AVI's and give them to us as 'rewards' for countless hours of TASing?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Saturn wrote:
But don't worry, we will get the answer whether my demo was of benefit or not when we see their independent progress in the past Torizo parts of the run.
Hehe, made me smile ^^. Your demo WAS of benefit, but the new OTES would have been discovered by me anyways, since as I mentioned, I knew of the possible climb and I would have tested it. It was actually the first smv I created.
Our testrun has been commenced, and the next WIP will NOT come soon.
All the best.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
moozooh wrote:
Oh, and another thing: I've received your PM. One more thing to ask would be: are your speed/momentum values for the new skip method final? I.e. you have tested all other values and they are in no way applicable? I'll need this info to finally update the trick page and add a chapter I've been meaning to add for almost a year: momentum manipulation strategies.
I'm glad you recieved my PM ;].
Speed adds to momentum, and the skip allows only those 3 different momentums to work, so yes, no other speeds will work. Feel free to prove me wrong, but I tested incredibly much on this. All other values had me end up at 49151, which makes you end up at in the door at 29,04095. And we wouldn't want that.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Tonski wrote:
Haha really nice rhytmic sound in OTES with the walljumping. Were those strategies faster before pre-Torizo room? Like staying in ball form and jumping early, I didn't see them in the notes.
That jump through the door was faster. We didn't put it on the list since that's where Saturn's run stops and it is unjust to compare further. Taken that the list were only places where we gained frames on Saturn.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Cpadolf wrote:
Actually more like 44, compared to my any% at least. moozooh supposedly had already improved that by 2 frames in the NBMB though so 42 frames. Still an epic improvement. Unless some new trick is discovered after you are done with this I doubt anyone will bother to try and improve it for a long time.
Compared to your new run, ours was 46 frames faster. Compared to moozooh's low% we were 55 frames faster. This is probably where we are disagreeing ;]
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Since I and Taco just managed to optimize our new Torizo skip (but still 1 potential frame left), we thought it'd be nice to WIP again =).
Notes:
OMBR - 1 frame saved due to better subpixel positioning.
Elevator - Ghostframe saved due to OMBR frame.
Morph Ball - 1 frame saved due to better subpixel position, allowing to land 1 frame earlier.
Elevator - Ghostframe saved due to Morph Ball frame.
Room after OTES - 1 frame saved due to subpixel momentum boost.
And then of course, torizo skip itself. Instead of jumping for 9 frames we managed to jump for 4 frames. Now a few notes I took during testing.
When jumping speed should be either of these values: 1.12288, 1.16384, 1.20480.
Jump for 4 frames, turn around and while picking up bombs Door Timer should read 2 (of course) and MOMENTUM should read either of these values: 1.04096, 1.08192, 1.12288 OR IT WON'T WORK. This is the most trivial part of the improved torizo skip.
So, at the door leading to the Torizo Corridor, we are 10 ingame frames faster than Saturn, or 11 Zebes frames.
The WIP can be found here
EDIT: The improved Torizo skip is approximately 55 frames faster.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
hero of the day wrote:
I don't think it could have saved 80 frames. The difference between a moozooh style skip and the regular collection of the item was only 58 frames. Either way, great find! I can't wait to see what you guys come up with for the rest of the run.
Fully optimized it will save way very much more. The only problem is that the value's have to close to perfect, incredibly small margin of error. Several conditions have to be met, making this find 100% luck. I will explain the next time we post a WIP. All the best.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Cpadolf wrote:
I'm fiddling around some in the room to try and make it even faster, so far I have been able to bring the jump down to holding for 5 frames but for some reason I don't get enough momentum at the pickup to put me far enough away from the torizo when landing thus lacking 1 pixel to make it through the door.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Cpadolf wrote:
Hah, that's truly awesome, my TAS took exactly two days to get obsoleted :)
Wrong. Everyones Crateria segment was heavily obsoleted by me and Taco. Nothing else. Your run is still very high quality to be done over a period of 3 weeks. That is what surprised me the most o.O
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Cpadolf wrote:
superpi wrote:
but it isn't beneficial from a timesaving standpoint
Actually X-ray climbing makes a 00:15 not sound very far fetched.
I think he ment it as an everyday timesaving trick. Not as a gamebreaker.
EDIT:
Omg. I just improved torizo skip by like 80 frames or so. It is not even optimized and I fear it can be improved more. Check it out here.
All the best.
Another EDIT:
Apparently the trick is to pick them up at Y position 189 65535, so this means it's improvable by alot more. Expect it to become seriously awesome.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Saturn wrote:
I really can't wait to see you in action on Zebes, and whether you can manage the impossible to save at least one frame over my TAS demo until pre-Torizo. :-)
The "impossible" is very much possible. Your zebes is far from perfect.
I and Taco started an any% run, aiming for realtime. We plan to pick up hi-jump boots, if anyone has a very good reason for us not to do so, please state your reason immidiately, taken that we already doubt that it will save time.
Our progress. We got 49'14 without any intro delays. Saved 2 frames until Blue Brinstar, 1 which none other than Taco, I think, have thought of, but lost both elevator frames. If we had finished Ceres with an even ingame number, we got 3131, we would have saved 1 ingame frame. But since we aim for realtime, there is no difference. We saved another 4 frames in blue brinstar, upon picking up morph ball, 2 frames, and the debris room after missiles, 2 frames upon climbing. We are WIPing until after OTES is finished, and 5 ingame frames faster than Saturn, 6 if not counting the ceres frame. (I have yet to check realtime, but we are approx 13~15 realtime frames faster)
All the best
EDIT: Almost forgot; Taco asked me to put up this
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Saturn wrote:
Speaking of RBO, how is your progress Kriole? I'm really interested how the new route turns out and how well you do with the new, harder, conditions at LN.
...new route? Oh, I see. You think I prioritize my v4. No, I will finish v3 first, so I got something to compare with. It's unjust, but still fun to see how much I will pwn myself. But, got much stuff to do atm, so I really can't be arsed to play my RBO for a while. I'm gonna let it sink in for awhile ;]. During my testrun I found out that the PB pack on the way to Ridley saves roughly 300 frames, if not even more. So that will be included in my new RBO.
And tbh, GIEF NEW REDESIGN WIP! =(
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Tonski wrote:
But I thought JXQ proved walljumping method to the Etecoon PBs a frame faster than that shinespark, and moozooh even improved it saying something like the walljumps rhyming with Etecoons' chymes? (lol could not find the post to quote)
If the shinespark 1 frame slower than the walljump method, then my method is 1 frame faster than the walljump method. But I think moozooh improved the walljump method by 4 frames, so I lose again. Still, I need the power bombs, so stutter away!
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
evilchen wrote:
dont believe your eyes
its just a video and i forgot the credits which would have looked like this
"was it real?" "thanks for watching"
still cool someone noticed :P
That movie was superduper wtf dood awesome. You win.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Mlandry wrote:
I have to say this argument is ridiculous. Of course he is going to copy/recreate the fastest routes and movements known... that's the entire point of a TAS. Not doing so = no vote.
Since Taco has perfected Ceres already (I think), there is no other way than copying, since perfection cannot be recreated. The movements are going to be the same no matter what you do, except the waiting time before Ridley. And no, this is not the point of TASing.
And I think it's better if you define "this argument", since you could mean several.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Saturn wrote:
He not only used his Ceres, he used my entire Zebes until pre Torizo as well. But I don't see what is so bad about that. If the fastest strategies are already known, why intentionally use the slower ones especially in a serious and high qualitative run that Cpadolf currently works on?
I think you misunderstood:
He used Taco's smv, and started building upon that. I know this since I accidently loaded a savestate I usually use when watching Taco's runs; I don't want to watch the intro all the time ;]. There is nothing wrong with it though, since I daresay he did not copy more than 1 room.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
The only thing that buggered me was that you used Taco's Ceres, instead of starting your own. Well, you altered it to your liking, but it still bothered me that you were so lazy ;p. I take you started to record after the first room?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
evilchen wrote:
there is no way to keep your speed after a cwj while spinning? no f'cking way or :(?
There is a way, I managed to do it in one of my hack TASes. However, I think the reason it worked was because I was underwater with gravity suit. Or it was the speed boost. Or it was the screw attack. I don't know. But if you are refering to the CWJ at the blue brinstar elevator, I take it's impossible.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Saturn wrote:
And Kriole is indeed a devil for starting over again. Don't forget to copy Taco's new 49'20 time if you're at it. ;-)
I'm not starting over, just commencing my v4, this time with Hero's route. And I don't copy, I analyze and recreate.
BTW Cpadolf, your new run was incredible! The only thing I noticed was that you didn't upwards cwj after the charge beam; other than that it looked incredibly polished.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
Cpadolf wrote:
Awesome WIP Kriole, I spot many small improvements but the entertainment value is crazy. Though I would probably have skipped the 2 missiles at the R-tank, and maybe the one in blue brinstar at the E-tank and the other one in the early supers room.
If I skip that many missile tanks, it would leave me with 10 missiles at Ridley ;p. Thanks for the comments though.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Experienced player
(860)
Joined: 11/26/2007
Posts: 400
Location: Sueeden
hero of the day wrote:
It's an awesome WIP kriole. In fact it looks almost identical to the old preview movies saturn had made for his run.
Thank you. The fact that it looks identical to Saturn's is that his methods are simply the fastest ;]. Except the etecoon shaft morph thingy I did, was 2 frames faster.
hero of the day wrote:
I am however saddened and surprised that you opted to use a considerably slower route.
Never planned to even attempt to publish it (nor do I think it would be accepted). I just create it to for entertainment, the route changing had to be done. It's just that I value quality over in-game time.
As for the overpowered amount of ammo at Ridley; ...I have less than Saturn? And 1 less e-tank I recall saying that it was beyond me. In my test I managed to get caught by Ridley with 81 energy left; not enough to survive.
