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hero of the day wrote:
Upon entering the ridley/metroid room, I noticed that you did not use the reverse jump/hitbox trick to trigger the door earlier, as seen in the other recent SM tases. Did you purposely lose time here, or did it not actually cost any time at all..
It's equally fast. I take most people do this just because it's fancy and doesn't kill the momentum upon entering the room. It's hard to make it look entertaining when you're at such an awkward position at such a low speed.
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I really liked the minor optimizations, such as equipping the Flying Armor early and the improved damage boosts in the Warg corridor, to name a few. Caught me by surprise, to say the least. Have a yes vote =)
Anyways, I started theorycrafting for a faster Black Panther movement pattern when I finished my 100%. I did notice that kicking made you go a little faster, so I figured if you use the hippogryph pattern, except with Black Panther activated, as fast as possible you should go a little faster than just using Black Panther all the time. Anyways, it seems you managed to figure out an even better pattern, since doing it as fast as possible only gives you about 21500~speed. However, doing it as fast as possible allows you to do it in places where there's not enough room to jump as high as it is required by this new pattern. Surely this should save a few frames.
Also, I'm not entirely convinced that Yorick is the fastest for Dimitrii. It feels like Slaughterer would be a good alternative. I would like to test this but I have to say that lately I've not been in the mood for TASing.
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Even if you manage to record and playback the input, you'd still have a very boring movie. Heroes of Newerth is a pretty bad candidate for a TAS since playing it optimally is very simple. Even if you pick a hero that relies a lot on RNG it's still going to be fairly boring to watch. Not to forget that the bots currently have extremely bad AI - you can pretty much kill them with autoattacks on level 1 and they'd just run back and forth on the spot.
Say if you were to make this movie after all, and say this would sync well (which it probably would), what would your concept be? Push throne/tree as fast as possible? Get to a certain number of kills as fast as possible? I cannot think of much more on the spot, but these seem to be very dull. Also, it's extremely simple to 1v5 the bots, so doing 5v5 would be kind of overkill.
However much I love to play HoN I fear it's not really TAS material. Mind you I've never even thought of the possibility, but still.
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That's excellent news, well done :D
Do you reckon it's possible to do so earlier? The clip you showed at 2 crystals up, maybe it's possible earlier, or was this just a demonstration?
Also I remembered another trick which might save time on some bulkier monsters and maybe even bosses- instead of comboing to a firepunch, you delay between the second and third hit to get a regular hit. I noticed this was faster on monsters who weren't knocked out by the firepunch, to avoid them entering the invulnerability period. I might be wrong though, something you probably have to test yourself. Unless you already know this stuff, that is.
Looking forward to the rest of this game. I don't know if I can recall all the tricks and sequence breaks I found while playing this game, but I'll try and see what I can remember.
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sonicpacker wrote:
I think that exceeds "worth looking into"! XD That theoretically means that an any% would be getting 1 crystal in each level while abusing my super jump find to beat it as quick as possible. Thanks for the heads up, I'll definitely see what I can find!
Edit: Do you recall what level it happened in?
I noticed one time while playing that when buttstomping between the crystals while the game was placing them on the statue that you could make the door flap open. I thought it was funny so I did it everytime on the boss statues, and one time I just passed through. I cannot recall which level it was, sadly.
The issue, like I mentioned earlier, is that I don't know if it requires all crystals required to open the statue, or just two. I recall the door not even flapping when arriving with less crystals than required to finish the level, but I might be wrong on this. I cannot say that I did much research on this, given that I only managed to do it once when I pretty much tried it everytime I reached a statue.
I'll try to get my hands on my brothers Wii and see if I can't dick around with these things again. Though this will probably have to wait until the weekend.
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I've played this game a lot, so I was really excited for this. I had intentions to do speedruns of this game, but never really got around to it. A shame really, now that I think of it.
Anyways, I recall managing to glitch through a boss statue, by having two red crystals be on the statue and then buttstomp between them. It only really happened once and I don't know if it requires all crystals or just two, but this should definitely be worth looking into.
It's also possible to skip ALL the battle arenas in this, but this is probably old news.
Keep it up! I'll definitely keep checking up on this and see if I can remember any cool speedtricks from when I was playing this.
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I love this game :D. This run will no doubt be awesome to watch, given the things I've seen thus far.
Two things came to mind when watching the latest WIP:
1. Isn't it possible to take the last hit from the blue jelly at a better angle to be closer to the water? The angle looked a bit off, or did it not matter due to the water level changing?
2. After collecting the sword, isn't it faster to attack the Hobgoblin from the other side, so that you push it, and yourself, closer to the door or did the distance not matter?
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Fredrik wrote:
I wonder if you could save time by picking up Cutall and entering the Cursed Clock Tower via Garden of Madness.
Doesn't this require the Succubus soul? Though regardless I have no intention of adding out of bounds glitches to the run.
Alaktorn wrote:
zggzdydp’s comment bothers me lol
It bothers me too. Not necessarily so much because he might be right, but people who make comments along the line of 'this is improvable' and do not suggest in what way deserve to be shot.
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Just for fun I sat down on my high-level toon and killed some monsters, not enough to give an accurate reading, but still to maybe give a slight idea:
100 Killer Clowns, 15 souls dropped (12% drop chance), 3 777s dropped (2% drop chance)
1100 Skeletons, 67 souls dropped (8% drop chance)
600 Peeping Eyes, 3 souls dropped (1% drop chance)
As I said not quite enough to make a good statistic, but still. This is with 63 luck and Soul Eater Ring. And the drop chances barely match, even with those stats, which is baffling. This means that I'm either extremely unlucky, or as mentioned, the dropchance is just blatantly wrong. Though I have to say I was quite lucky with the 777s, but meh. Not really the point here. A better idea would probably to go to the Bone Pillar room and clear that out a few times and check what you get. Gonna do that now.
Edit: Ok I revisited the room a 100 times, there are 60 Bone Pillars in that room which means I killed 6000 of them. I got 82 souls in the process. This means Bone Pillar, with all the luck and Soul Eater Ring I have has roughly a 1.36666% chance of dropping. Bone Pillar is supposed to have a 2% drop rate. I'm not sure where the FAQs get that information though.
Also keep in mind that this is WITH the bonus dropchance for already having the soul. Testing without this bonus would be extremely hard, and I don't know how big this bonus is, so yeah.
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TheAxeMan wrote:
(now that TheAxeBoy is home safe and healthy)
Congratulations! :D
I have added a description, I tried to keep the obvious down to a minimum, such as 'I USED THIS SOUL ON AN ENEMY AND HE DIED AND STUFF' but I fear it is still cluttered with redundancies. I still want to add a section about some of the details of the game, such as how I worked towards a soul and how the different movement patterns work, and maybe discuss the drop rates of this game cause they're clearly bullshit. If a soul has a 2% base drop rate WITHOUT adding the extra drop rate that luck provides and I don't find the soul for nearly 600 random numbers, then clearly there is something wrong. 'But it could be bad luck?' no. It happened repeatedly, that souls, especially with 1-4% drop chance, had a much much lower drop rate than suggested. Even Mothman, where I could go 30 random numbers without finding it and it's supposed to have 32% drop rate? Sure.
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AngerFist wrote:
What's the difference between a 100% run and all souls run?
Sorry, I forgot to answer this in my previous post; there are 2 kinds of 100% categories for the Sorrow series, 100% soul collection and 100% map completion. Map completion is the preferable one to go for when playing unassisted, for obvious reasons. So this is technically a 100% soul collection run, more commonly refered to all-souls.
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Warepire wrote:
2 things that hit me when watching the TAS that in my opinion may be interesting to consider for the next revision of this TAS:
• Will it be possible to prolong the soul travel of the first Treant soul you get to make it glitch the seal pickup?
• Is it worth delaying the Killer Doll soul to the room with the magic seal to make another glitched seal pickup?
Yes, I've thought of them both =).
For the Killer Doll you have to wait for it to stand up, which takes quite some time actually. I chose to kill the very first Killer Doll I encounter since I was able to hit it from the stairs. This plus the awkward soul travel that follows would barely save enough time which the glitched seal pickup saves, I reckon.
The treant however should definitely be possible. It would however add another pause screen, and I would have to take damage so it would save around 70-80 frames.
I'm fine with glitched bossdoors, you can generally still tell what's going on, but I noticed with seals, or bossdoors which have no seal finishers, that the darkness that follows can be quite annoying to watch. To be honest I felt kind of bad for doing a glitched bossdoor for the Garden of Madness good ending cutscene - the resulting darkness lasts until Death, which I mentioned in the thread, that I'm not quite I was perfectly ok with, even though it saves quite some time.
Especially in the earlier parts of the run, which in my opinion are the most entertaining, since there are so many souls to be gotten. Keep in mind that it would be possible to skip the Rycoda until the first Dario battle to create another glitched bossdoor. But since he has no seal finisher, the darkness would last until the new seal just before Puppet Master.
I dunno, maybe I'm the only one who dislikes the darkness, but meh.
On another note, that nicovideo encode was pretty funny. I watched it with the comments on and noticed that when entering Malphas a million comments going 'Malphas-sanwwww' popped up. Not quite sure if I understand what that's all about. I also noticed how some of the monsters were named differently, which was pretty curious.
moozooh wrote:
I get a repeatable desync right around getting The Creature's soul. Any ideas as to what could cause that?
This is a bit interesting actually. I tried to dick around with the settings but failed to reproduce a scenario where I desynced after getting the soul. I tried different roms and emulator versions aswell, no dice. The interesting part is that I had this desync while working on the run, I had a savestate/hexediting mixup which caused me to desync just after getting the Creature soul. I managed to fix it however (after several hours of crying in fetal position - I had finally manage to get the Bone Pillar soul after exhausting every single one of my ideas until my very last) but I don't think this is the issue here, the run clearly syncs for other people. There is a lot of inexplicable lag just before picking up the soul, maybe the emulator fails to emulate that correctly or something... I dunno, I fear I won't be of much help when it comes to things such as this.
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....And it's done. I still have to iron out a few things, which shouldn't take more than an hour with the help of hexediting, so expect to see it on the submission board tomorrow :D.
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All the souls have been collected and I'm on Menace at the moment. I will hopefully finish tomorrow, I still need to do a buttload of testing when it comes to him. I have somewhat of an idea of what my setup will be, and I have a mana prism to dick around with, so let's see how it turns out.
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Since I'm not WIPing anymore, I thought I'd post a quick status update: I'm at Death at the moment.
The Abyss is gonna be hectic since there are so many souls to get in such a short timespan. It's going to be exciting, luckily none of the souls are that terribly rare.
Should be done in a few days!
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Subterranean Hell done, off to Silenced Ruins. After that it's just Pinnacle, Paranoia, Mine, Abyss and it's all done. Woo.
Pie
I have no idea what happened with that ledge clip. I'm not sure if that's possible on other ledges, I've never seen anything like it o.o
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Hello!
I've finally managed to get Bone Pillar. Yay. I didn't need Pendant for it either, which saved me a pausescreen. All in all I've saved 448 frames up to Rahab, and this is with Bugbear picked up, which is about 60 frames. I also managed to get a Paella from the Cave Troll, which is really really nice, since I need to take damage from one of the Fish Heads later on.
Rahab is a little boring, he always starts with the Icicle attack, so I can't do much about that. But he's fairly easy to manipulate after the first attack, just have to manipulate him to attack very early, then it's all good. He dies with 0 overkill, neat.
Pie
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Tub wrote:
Btw, what happens if you collect multiple souls during the same frame? Probably nothing as useful as the levelup-glitch (or someone would have mentioned it), I'm just curious.
I can't say that I've actually tested it for this game. I have however done so in AoS and since they both are so ridiculously similar, I can hazard a fairly safe guess that the same thing happens - nothing. The soul messages just take turns. The thing that makes level up screens and bossdoor transitions work is that they take a frame to kick in, this is not true for souls. So if you pick up a soul during that one frame, weird shit happens =p.
Btw the reason I haven't WIPed lately is because I was really sick this sunday and monday and had barely any energy to even get out of bed.
Also while redoing the Clocktower I had some ideas, such as picking up Imp, Bugbear and Medusa. I'm pretty damn sure that if you pick up Bugbear during the Magic Seal 4 screen it'll cancel that one aswell. The issue is making it work, Medusa can wait, but I seriously need Imp for later on. Using it on Alura Une reduces its HP to 1 instead of 600 and Iron Golems hp to 15 instead of 50, among others.
Also picking up Imp after Zephyr is pretty dumb. It works but that means I have to lineup Imp, Creature, Hellboar and Bone Pillar within that very limited timeframe (Bone Pillar required Pendant in my last attempt). Skipping Imp means I can work on Creature during Zephyr.
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I've discovered something amazing
The screen will be a little bit darker until Rahab is dead, no big deal. The question is if I can do the same in the Garden of Madness later on, or if the darkness is going to persist until Death, something I'm not quite sure I'm okay with.
Edit: Also saves 222 frames on the door leading to Zephyr, gonna look to redo from there. With some luck I might even be able to skip the pendant, however useful it will be later on.
