I'd probably rather view each category separately rather than see them all on one movie. That being said, the recent playaround was awesome and I'd love to see some more creative stuff like that.
I think the problem with "too many Tetris runs" comes more down to there being no need to run every port of a single game. Each run should add something new and interesting. The DS run looks different than either of the Gameboy Tetris runs because of the new instant drop physics that show off more conventional Tetris Strategy. Your playaround was likewise new and interesting. If someone can show off something else cool I'd likewise be glad to see it.
There are programmable controllers... The problem is that they'd be too unpredictable to be useful for just these reasons.
As for the amount of variance, you'd have to ask Nach, he's the one who's been explaining these things at length the last two or three days, but here's an excerpt:
Nach:
While working on SNES emulators, we came across at least a dozen different games that don't take any steps to protect themselves against variable timing.
These games if left running long enough (a few hours) would reach an "impossible state" and crash the game. I don't remember the exact games off hand though.
The point is based on this variance in timing, sometimes a game would poll input on the 6th video frame, sometimes the 7th, maybe occasionally the 5th, because the timing crystal beats erratically, essentially some milliseconds are longer, some shorter, regardless of the initial state of the system.
Think of how pseudo-randomness works, and why some chips have thermal based randomness. If you could externally measure the beats of the crystals in the SNES (and similar systems), you'd have a true source of randomness.
Because of this, every game on these systems are inherently random throughout. Some to the extent where the game could crash, others just that you have an extra frame or one less frame of video between events.
Our emulators on the other hand are based on computer systems with more precise timing, and a more precise construct running the game, making frames last a consistent amount of time, based on an average of how long a frame lasts on a real system. But this means that how long it lasts is also different from a real system, no matter how you look at it.
Sadly, I lot of what's gone on around here lately has had to do with waning enthusiasm for putting together resources like this :P
On the site board people were proposing putting together new FAQ pages and even video tutorials and things but so far nothing's come of it. It's hard to say why for sure, but it probably has more to do with an inability to commit time than a true lack of interest. I'm sure that all of us here with decent reading comprehension skills have an idea of how important something like this would be for actualizing people who are already interested in TASing to contribute.
It's not just a single value starting from an unknown value, it's the entire hardware setup and how it mechanically proceeds with its operation. Everything from the temperature of the room to the TV can effect how a console runs. Its not at all guaranteed that even two consoles fresh off the same assembly line played side by side on two TVs fresh off the same assembly line by being fed the exact same frame perfect input would behave the same; you'd eventually get a de-synch simply because the timing mechanisms are NOT perfectly deterministic machines like we'd all been led to believe.
There's no knowing if any given input file would ever work on the original console simple because there's no way to know from any given emulation whether that specific timing variation is possible (And probably isn't given that its based on a perfect average of something that's random).
Ya, all things considered, I think I'll give this a yes too. It's music is still better than most of the Rubiks Cube solves on Youtube and knowing that there's luck manipulation involved makes me warm and fuzzy inside.
Considering the Megaman games, I think the best solution is to just do two games that synch really well. Super Mario Bros. 3 and Super Mario World actually seem like a good choice. I can just see Raccoon Mario and Cape Mario flying in synch; two Marios jumping on goombas, grabbing shells, and lobbing fireballs side by side...
On the other hand, I think a project like this would require a lot of speed-entertainment trade offs to be effective; Namely, to have the two games look as much in synch as possible; A lot of what takes away from the 4-Megaman run (Besides it being too much to focus on) is that it doesn't LOOK like 4 games perfectly in synch. Just think about watching synchronized swimming, how awesome it looks when they're perfectly in synch and how terribly jarring it is when they look at all uneven: frames aren't really worth it on a creative category you're making up yourself anyway. I'd go as far as to suggest doing such a thing as a playaround but Super Mario Bros. 3 (All Stars) already has one of those and I'm rather fond of it.
Ah! That's brilliant! I didn't even notice because I was watching the sprites and not paying attention to the UI at all. I just assumed that it was some power-up or something, though I was wondering why they couldn't fire at all for that stretch of time... I need to play this game some more, despite how stupidly hard it is.
I actually thought the issue brought up a reverse problem for me: Should TASers be allowed to start with whatever uninitialized memory, entrophy, etc they want? It would still be a run possible on the actual console, just as likely as a run with any other starting memory and entrophy (however vanishingly likely that is; hmm, instead of making static TASes perhaps we need to make smart movie files that adjust their input slightly whenever the output of the console isn't exactly what's expected. ;) )
Maybe once we have quantum super computers capable of simulating the exact molecular configuration of game consoles, their circuitry, and the crystals used to time their various cycles, but by that point video game consoles will be made of nano-machines you inject directly into your bloodstream and have fuse themselves to your neurons and people will be wanting to TAS those instead.
ps: I'm still waiting for the SoM TAS, I literally did everything with this game back then... Let everyone except the girl die all the time (resulting in the Sprite and Guy staying on low level), don't use any magic, playing with 2 other friends.. Good times :)
There's currently nobody working on the SoM TAS but I'm currently putting together a resource page so that everyone can share in the discoveries made over the past six years (and hopefully finally get us a run of the last truly awesome SNES game, thought at this point I'm not holding my breath).
Ah, I've seen some of this kind of thing before on Youtube videos of Chiptune gatherings.
Wow, just when I thought the Genesis couldn't get any more noisy too... As an illustrator and pixel artist I find the visuals really cool. It makes me think back to when I was a kid trying to glitch up Super Mario Bros. 3 with my Game Genie!
I couldn't help you with TASing, but I know I'd love to attend such a workshop if it ever kicked off in Canada (Even if you did it in Quebec and didn't speak English and I couldn't understand). Actually, I think it would be cool to attend something on chiptunes and circuit bending and so one too.
Edit:
Also, I thought this video of yours was really cool: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xc6noj_megaglitch-sonic-2_videogames
awesome music.
I actually saw all the new April Fools runs before I saw the big topic so I already had in mind that everything was a joke. I found it highly amusing that the judges would go to the lengths they did just to cruelly convince people of something so patently ludicrous, and that they succeeded. But I guess it wasn't as much a joke as I thought.
I've been a lurker for a long time but only started posting recently, and as you can see by my post count, its quickly become a very important time sink of mine. Due to certain problems that don't bear mentioning I live at home without being able to get outside much; this forum right here is 95% of my social life... Its hard to express just what that means to me.
It makes me sad to hear these things though, that a lot of the veterans are leaving, that the submission queue has been running so thin and that runs of newer games aren't getting the attention that perhaps they deserve. It really makes me think, what if the site really does just die away like all those geo-cities fan sites in the 90s?
God knows I have time on my hands enough to TAS, but I don't think I ever could. Maybe in 2005 when things were simpler, but today it's like a competitive sport; people are deadly critical about optimizing even lengthy, difficult to TAS games. The veterans of today had the benefit of honing themselves against the inferior standards of the past, of being able to push the envelope. But today's newbies have to compare themselves to veritable MASTERS. Even if I started now I know that it could be months, even years before I was good enough to have anything worth showing people, and I just don't have that kind of dedication. Besides, I'm very much so an old-school gamer, and its true that many of the titles I'd like to TAS have already been done. Maybe someday I'll try my hand at TASing, but even so it would probably be all playarounds that I wouldn't even think of submitting or even showing as WIPs.
Ha, I love it... This was truly ridiculous besides being a neat little demonstration. It's fair to say it's a tad repetitive, maybe even a tad boring, but in my opinion, not nearly as bad as all these god damned Genesis platformers...
Don't be so immature just because it's April in Fiji! Obviously this is the real deal! You can tell that the judges are totally serious because this is how they always act; they're all worse dictators than Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot combined! They always make the most irrational decisions possible because they're sadistic, tyranical narcissists who get off on controlling and making havoc with our entire lives!
First they lured us in with their lies about TASes being legitimate speedruns instead of emu-hacks, and now that they've got us all addicted to their web-crack they've closed the mouse traps around our necks! This site's hold over my life is obviously reason I live in poverty without love or friendship! Why, if I thought any amount of money would be enough to repair my ruined life I'd totally sue the lot of them, but instead I'll have to suggest we all commit mass suicide in protest. Whoever's with me, I'm willing to start collecting donations immediately for anyone who wants to be in on the pact. And everyone else? Obviously you're one of them!
I also entered the "double speed" button code on Turbo Level 5: Which I was able to get down to 8.99 seconds... this speed is so fast that it's a bit shocking, IMHO.
Given that the race completions count in "double speed" mode and that it actually makes the game harder, I think that Turbo Level 5, double speed, is probably the best setting to TAS the game at.
THAT I might be interested in seeing. The current run isn't interesting to me in the slightest.
To be sloppy is to do something with poor ability to do so. To be trivial is to be so simple as to be unremarkable in any way. These traits do not share anything in common.
I do find it ironic that your definition of triviality simply restates such near synonyms as "simple" and "unremarkable." Perpetually responding to these issues with banal tautologies does nothing to further the debate on what criteria ought to be considered in the selection of runs for publication.
Triviality is not a function of how many frames of input are necessary to complete a game; a game of chess lasts for fewer turns than any TAS but remains the crown jewel of combinatorial problem solving in computer mathematics. Tick Tack Toe on the other hand is trivially solvable by any astute grade schooler. Yet, the triviality of game is not merely a function of its game-tree complexity, but the complexity of the algorithm necessary for enacting perfect play; if the solution to a game is self-evident, easily memorable or easily reproducible then it is trivial.
If a live player can already play a game nigh to perfection and achieve everything worth seeing there's no point in excising that element of raw human skill in favor of pointlessly sending a TASer to waste their time in the frame-perfection meat grinder for the sake of churning out miniscule, invisible improvements. I mean, honestly, is there any reason to break out the cheats just to show that a game can be beaten the exact same way a couple of seconds faster?
I don't understand how folks like mz can get so livid over people's focus on frame perfection and then insist that a run like this, that distinguishes itself in no way way whatsoever besides doing what the speedrun already did to frame perfection, be published. I mean, honestly, if you're that serious about these games start a fan page or something.
Just use XNA. It'll hold your hand all the way though, and given it's cross-platform design there's bound to be good emulation support for it in the future.
I'm starting at a game development program at college next September. I just finished up a BA but don't really know anything about programming (Besides RPGMaker 2003... Ha). Most of my game dev experience is in art and design. Anyway, I do wonder about what kind of features might make a prospective game interesting as a TAS.