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Posted: 1/20/2009 12:18 PM
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Lord_Tom
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It goes well; I'm about done with 3/5. I got sidetracked working on SMB3 for a couple weeks, but finally made the discovery I was looking for (cue mysterious music), so it's back to Lemmings till it's done! Level 3 is technically the most difficult level in the game (so far), which has taken a lot of time on account of having to develop some new techniques. At this point I'm on board with everyone who said they should be included, BTW; they are clearly on a different plane from the Mayhem levels in terms of difficulty, which should be obvious in the movie.
Posted: 1/7/2009 5:13 PM
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Lord_Tom
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My ideal run of this type would be: 1. Uses sword only for Gannon 2. As fast as possible This way, the game is beaten, providing a clean ending consistent with prior swordful runs. I think the fact that you do end up getting the sword is irrelevant as most video watchers should be discerning enough to notice that you're not using it. I could see an argument for not obtaining the sword until the 1st 8 levels are beaten, but I'm indifferent about that. I also don't see any reason to get the rod as late "as possible." I'd rather see a clean, well-thought-out route, than a tortured one that leaves certain bosses for last just because they're "rod-only." I'd love to see both the swordless run and an "all-items" run...
Posted: 1/5/2009 6:21 PM
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Lord_Tom
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klmz wrote:
It seems that I shouldn't have been worried about whether this movie would be ignored. :P
Yeah, I was worried prior to submission as the run didn't generate much buzz on the forums, but it's good to see ppl were secretly eager to see a Lemmings run after all. ThMrksman: Try using a different emulator version; I recorded the run using "Snes9X v1.43+ v13 (lua 0.05) for Windows", I think other ppl have made it synch with different versions, though, see page 2 of this topic. A "save every possible lemming" run covering Mayhem/Sunsoft would be MUCH more interesting to me than an all-levels run. Many boards would have significantly different strategies. However, it is possible that, for some boards, saving the max # of lemmings will be MUCH slower.
Posted: 1/3/2009 12:03 PM
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Lord_Tom
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dunnius wrote:
Also, the goal of the run would then be "beats the game as quickly as possible without passwords." I also think the cutscene after Mayhem 30 should then be skipped since it is relatively boring and long.
That is a great way to describe the goal of the modified run; thanks! (and glad you liked it!) The Sunsoft levels are underway, nearly done with the 2nd of five.
Posted: 1/2/2009 12:09 PM
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Lord_Tom
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Yeah, you're right about how it works...I'm not quite sure what I was thinking with that post...
Posted: 1/1/2009 9:43 PM
(Edited: 1/2/2009 12:10 PM)
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Lord_Tom
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eternaljwh wrote:
As for the "Cannot be done unassisted" comment- pausing does not stop the cursor or screen, it only prevents you from designating lems or changing spawn rate, so you can get optimal solutions by sacrificing realtime, if your trigger finger's good enough.
EDIT: True, if one sacrifices realtime some pretty impressive unassisted stuff would be possible. Though make just one mistake... ;)
Posted: 12/29/2008 10:15 PM
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Lord_Tom
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Ok, added the emulator info to the submission text: Snes9X v1.43+ v13 (lua 0.05) for Windows with the default settings.
Posted: 12/29/2008 4:07 PM
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Lord_Tom
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Ok, that's good enough for me. I will add on the Sunsoft levels as soon as time allows. 2 q's I have: 1. I'll interpret the lemmings falling off the cliff scene at the end of Mayhem as a cut scene and skip it, unless ppl think it should be included. 2. Do I cancel this submission and resubmit later, or just update the file when I'm done? Thanks for all the comments, this run got a MUCH warmer welcome than I'd expected!
Posted: 12/29/2008 12:21 PM
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Lord_Tom
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Oops, big apologies for not including the emulator version, will update when I get home from work tonight. As to the Sunsoft levels, there are only 5 of them, but: 1. I considered any addition to the run undesirable as it was already about an hour 2. I floated the subject in the forums, and the only feeedback I got was not to include them (granted only 1 person responded) 3. In looking at them, they're designed basically to make a player use trial and error to achieve (nearly) TAS-like precision for a brief period in order to complete them. Hence, I felt a TAS wouldn't add much for these levels. That said, if enough people feel strongly about it, I would include them. The question about the ending is a good one; I haven't actually gone through them all to find out...anyone know?
Posted: 12/29/2008 12:57 AM
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Lord_Tom
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No, decided against them as run was already quite long and 'mayhem only' was a clear enough goal that omitting them felt right.
Posted: 12/28/2008 7:30 PM
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Lord_Tom
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Yeah, I thought of that a few times during the 6 months I spent on this one...even the very best puzzle runs tend to get rated 5 or 6.x...still, once I found out there were Lemmings ports for the NES/SNES, I *had* to make it!
Posted: 12/28/2008 7:18 PM
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Lord_Tom
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LagDotCom wrote:
Absolutely loved this! Great TAS, though I did notice... On level 25, could you not make some (maybe only one) of the builders who are active at the end mine/whatever in order to stop them building faster, therefore exiting quicker?
Glad you liked it! On level 25, only the last lemmings matter; the builders finish building long before the last lemmings out of the hatch reach the exit, so stopping them earlier wouldn't affect the level completion time. cpadolf: thx for the star nod! kirkq: holy well-thought out review, thx!
Posted: 12/22/2008 5:07 PM
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Lord_Tom
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I'd definitely be interested. My SNES run is basically done, though I got distracted for a week or so by SMB3. I've spliced in the last major changes and now just have to go through inserting/removing frames to make it sync. I don't know if you ever saw the WIP I did for the NES version of the 1st five levels a few months back, but check it out if not (linked to one page back, I believe). I definitely believe both consoles could have runs published; the ports are sufficiently different to essentially consider different games. Good luck!
Posted: 12/22/2008 4:15 AM
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Lord_Tom
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I've been playing around with this game for the past week or so, and found a radical route change for Bowser's palace that saves a small amount of time for the warpless run: (start watching at frame 34,600; the beginning is just the published run) http://tom.seufert.googlepages.com/lordtomsmb3wip1.fcm Hopefully you guys like it; I certainly expect some of you will be a bit surprised at the route I take, and hopefully find it more entertaining, too. ;) This WIP is *not* fully optimized, but saves 11 frames, judged by the frame on which Bowser 1st appears (frame 36377 in the published run, frame 36366 in my wip). Start watching at around frame 34k... I tried many strategies to make the wall jump faster, including duck-jumping from mid-air when mario 1st appears, but was about 4 pixels shy no matter what I did. I know I'm missing corner boosts (intentionally left out to make proof of concept more quickly), and the final screen before Bowser can likely be several frames faster. I'd like to submit an improvement based on this once I get it optimized; if any more experience mario tas'ers have advice, I'd love to hear it via pm, the forums, etc.
Posted: 12/12/2008 10:11 PM
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Lord_Tom
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Does anyone know if it is possible to wall-jump in this game as big-mario? How about as big mario while using a star? I am playing around trying to get it working with big mario and a star, seem to get inside the wall, but am unable to jump; possibly b/c Mario is somersaulting like an idiot? An .fcm of the feat if anyone has it would be very helpful.
Posted: 12/4/2008 1:10 AM
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Lord_Tom
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A few random opinions... 5% of the published movie count seems like a good figure to me, and it makes sense that the population of starred movies can grow with the site content. I'd like to see a "puzzle/strategy" category, even were it to get just 1 star. That would give a more natural context for games like Arkanoid, Monopoly, Lolo, and (upcoming) Lemmings to compete in. I guess I don't quite understand the rationale for "instant stars,"...does it just mean "really, really great runs?" I would prefer to see all starred runs categorized in some more substantial way. As for Metroid, I won't argue for Metroid any% since I'm biased, but I tend to feel SM 100% is just too long, and 6% too repetitive; I'd much prefer the SM any% prior to the X-ray glitch (either in-game or real-time) get a star. I'd agree with those who argue against the wire-TAS category; it seems a bit too weird/narrow, though I definitely feel one or more of those runs are star-worthy, especially bionic commando. Overall, I'm very happy to see the stars system back online, and hopefully a bit more transparent/dynamic than before. Great job! PS I take it back, Metroid any% is the BEST RUN EVER!!!! ;)
Posted: 12/1/2008 2:13 AM
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Lord_Tom
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Dammit, I think you're right! (hee hee) I think it does make sense to leave the Sunsoft levels for a separate submission. There's an ending after the 30 Mayhem levels, and the run is already plenty long at just under 58 minutes. Also, reading through a walkthrough, it doesn't sound like they'd add much that hasn't already been done in this TAS. I'll still take a bit to write the comments and rework a couple levels; if anyone disagrees with leaving off the Sunsoft levels, please weigh in! PS It's taken 5 months, but I'm finally getting sick of this game... E: Moving forward with revisions, as expected this title is pretty splice friendly, though not 100%. Updated strategies and lag reduction (w/o sacrificing entertainment) took 46 seconds off level 1!
Posted: 11/29/2008 11:57 PM
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Lord_Tom
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Ugh...was putting the finishing touches on Mayhem level 30, finished the level just to see the ending...it turns out there's 5 "bonus" levels in the SNES port. Thought I was just about done, now it'll be at least a few more weeks.
Posted: 11/6/2008 7:47 PM
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Lord_Tom
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Final wip, through level 28...with any luck, will be on the workbench in a week or two. 25: rapid horizontal bridge building really comes into its own here, resulting in a solution having nothing to do with what the authors intended 26: Most difficult level so far; hugely difficult to plan all those explosions, synch with the builders/stoppers, and still save 90% 27: All the fast levels are easy... 28: Cool glitching through solid steel saves minutes! http://tom.seufert.googlepages.com/tomsneslemmingswip.smv
Posted: 11/4/2008 11:47 PM
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Lord_Tom
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Any progress on an improvement?
Posted: 10/23/2008 12:05 AM
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Lord_Tom
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Another update to the wip...complete through level 24! 21: not much to say; a typical lemmings puzzler 22: unexpectedly interesting level in that several lemmings are sent ahead of the pack, and managed simultaneously to clear the way 23: a very difficult level, requiring precise timing all over. Those lemmings I bomb walking right toward the end aren't just for show; their craters slows down the oncoming pack of lemmings just enough so they don't fall into the water 24: easiest level so far due to frame-by-frame! Any suggestions or improvements? Speak now! 1 more wip and then it's onto the workbench! http://tom.seufert.googlepages.com/tomsneslemmingswip.smv
Posted: 10/17/2008 5:41 PM
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Lord_Tom
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My bad, it seems I forgot the crucial step of actually uploading the new file...the link is the same, but it should have all 20 levels now. ;) http://tom.seufert.googlepages.com/tomsneslemmingswip.smv For those who weren't following from the NES forum, there are some known issues with the wip that I hope to splice in fixes for when I'm done: 1. No password is needed to get to Mayhem (you press select from the intro screen to level 1...duh!) 2. Fairly substantial improvements to the 1st 2 levels due to better techniques 3. Fairly minor improvements to a few levels due to fast-scrolling, not known until level 18
Posted: 10/16/2008 7:20 PM
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Lord_Tom
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Here's an updated wip that goes through level 20. What to look for in the new levels: 17: cool shortcut thru the ceiling 18: busiest level so far; 4 lemming start points w/ release rate bumped to 99! 19: no blockers necessitates some crazy moves; the timing on this level is insane, but I think it worked out well 20: grrr...the wait for the last lemming can't be avoided; having him mine to the right will trap other lemmings in his tunnel Generally: I just found out about holding B for fast scrolling/cursor movement. This will affect a minority of levels already done, though except for level 15 the savings will likely be much less than 1 second. http://tom.seufert.googlepages.com/tomsneslemmingswip.smv
Posted: 10/10/2008 2:55 PM
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Lord_Tom
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Thanks! Bowing to common sense, I've located and begun to use the SNES Lemmings thread...;)
Posted: 10/10/2008 2:30 PM
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Lord_Tom
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Resurrecting this thread as I've been working on a Mayhem-only version for a couple months, previously discussed (for arcane reasons) in the NES forum. Here's a wip through the 1st 16 (of 30) levels. I've been told that the password is not necessary to start at Mayhem; will attempt to splice it out after completion. (it only uses a second or so anyway) http://tom.seufert.googlepages.com/tomsneslemmingswip.smv
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