Posts for MESHUGGAH

MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
scrimpeh: page on tasvideos wiki -> too many edits, spreadsheet solution still sounds better. Yes, I was something along the lines of this TASMania. The information I'm researching (and missing from that spreadsheets) are: - comments on TASing (occurence of lag frames, tips to improve TAS, possible categories etc) - currently fastest times (for example zombie nation sub 18 instead of "~1 hour") - possible categories (using plain logic, like "platformer game with many enemies -> maybe pacifism can be implemented). So yeah, making a list to encourage and help fellow TASers to make a stab on a NES game. If I would research all NES games and test all possible tricks, I will never complete. But I believe I have enough notes for many games that can help even slightly.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Post subject: Listing ALL possible NES TAS material games
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
I started to check all games found in GoodNes 3.23b. Something like this: edit:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AnWQ58TzUNhuCYstyrSUnlSJgrbbFe3aV6iFj8p9xkc/edit?usp=sharing A list of all NES games. I'm looking for feedback about what information would you think to be useful. A few words: - Alternative name helps you to search the game on the web (japanese TAS on nicovideo for example) - Language is only the main language of the game - Other versions excludes hacks - Video is always a "better than nothing" visual, don't expect full playthroughs - I only note non obvious things so far (for example "not laggy" versus "laggy game" and summarizing primary rejection cause) I welcome any feedback. Obviously I would make a lot of edits (spending time for researching it and documenting). Should I just share it on google drive and link it here? And which sub-forum (I didn't wanted to pollute NES forum with a non-game fixed thread)?
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
(don't worry, I didn't forgot the pacifist TAS, no excuses) Regarding the double KO: 0. Some soft lock screens. Non-lag frames but input isn't processed. (1st: 1st non-lag frame. 2nd: later frames) Here's another soft-lock manipulated from feos' movie: 1. The game can be soft locked, but most of the time it will recover after 2000~5000~13000 lag frames. 2. As Scumtron wrote, since the game uses the 0x6D which looks unmanipulatable, the game will come back to a state where you can press start and loads 0x6D, which is always the place where you did the double KO (only boss1, boss2 tested). 3. You can't warp to another level, because the KO glitch doesn't increases 0x6D only after revisiting the level, so the game takes you the next cutscene after the boss level started. Only ideas I have as Scumtron suggested is getting more score to have enough time to end a screen and hoping for something spicy. edit: if you somehow able to go to the boss screen (double ko boss2, freeze timer value, go to boss2 again), the timer will countdown again from 150 and proceeds to next level. Obviously this is impossible and worthless.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Well, the reason I ask because I prefer A the most: - Uses powerups (since we don't use it to kill enemies, it will be different from any%, only boss fights will be similar if possible to carry that subweapon AFAP) - Only kills bosses (pacifist) Technically (or "In a TAS"), it's much more challenging (using subweapons creatively without harming anything but containers), would show the superplay of a ninja who doesn't harms but uses all aids he can get. I guess I should make a demo and see the reactions for it :) Probably a few days needed to change routes. edit: The reason I'm motivated as fuck is because this is a very long project I have spent many time, so I want it to be as sick as possible. But since my opinion always on the extremes, I wanted your voice. So, brb.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
A: Stage 1 - same as current wip but collects the spin slash for faster boss fight (remove enemy, collect spin slash, avoid next dmg boost, different intrrupt for tyson) Stage 2 - same as current wip but collects the spin slash for faster boss fight (on 3rd screen) Stage 3 - same as current wip but collecting the spinslash and windmill shuriken etc etc A does affects speed, only B doesn't affects (only "play", show offs, no killing and doesn't use special powers against bosses) edit: A is about pacifism against neutral enemies but uses everything on bosses, and "opens" powerup containers. B is just show off skill while playing without breaking the "killing neutral enemy".
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Little PACIFISTING status update with questions... My latest movie User movie #33669363111907735 syncs up to 6-1 start. The remaining work is optimizing stage 6 screens (~10k frames). edit: already has a proposed route but probably improvable but need to be resynced because of many little improvements in stage 5 However, I would like to ask primarily my coauthors feos and Scumtron and others opinion... The "pacifist" goal... My own category ideas: A) If pacifist% would allow using B to slash powerups, it would be still different than any% and could show off some shuriken action while travelling (all without killing any single enemies/bullets that aren't bosses). All powerup could be used (restore hp for example). It would greatly change this path. B) Pacifist% but using B to slash windmill shuriken power up and ninpos to play with them. C) Same as RTA. No B outside of boss battles. (Our current WIP, linked in beginning)
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
It was a good experience to work on this with Scumtron. I hardly doubt it can be improved upon.
Alyosha wrote:
Any thoughts of working on the sequel as well?
If I ever finish the wonderful misery of pacifisting, you can count on me. All I ask is a fancy LUA script by feos :)
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Scumtron wrote:
moozooh: Indeed, the published run was done with little more than memory watch and some (mostly) naive assumptions based on that, but when you consider that the game is still primarily around eleven minutes of scrolling the screen at a constant rate and waiting for the next part to load, then it's not surprising how little room for improvement there is.
This sounds so underrated! I think it's a great achievement you did with "fewer" technology than we have now (mostly referring to TAS Editor and feos' sexy lua script). It's suprising that we still find a way to save a few frames and the way it impacts other screens.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Stack corruption: interesting, I've tried to recreate the situation on other levels without success (picking up a "bonus 1000 points" powerup and position differently to update score graphically while reaching the interrupt zone since killing the bird doesn't affects this). It looks like a lag frame, however if you append 1 frame (to reach the ladder), it will strike again at 13314 edit: probably useless fact but it's 16*60 difference between 13314 and 12354
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Status update again for pacifist movie. Since WIP133 route has 1 extra HP (by avoiding bat boost), HP route for stage 5 need to be revised. For reference, WIP133 Frame 26801 Possible mprovements and their effect to 5-2 final knife bitch: * feos' RTA trick at 5-1 start saves 5 frames for 1 HP. This way the knife bitch fires 13 frames earlier, which is really bad. Frame 26788 * the same 5-1 boost and avoiding the ballerinas (jumping roundhouse kickers) at 5-2 for 13 frames the knife bitch still throws bad knife Frame 26825 * avoiding only the ballerinas let's us jump over the knife bitch, but this way we need to manipulate bird 6 to be slower so we can boost over slot7 bird, this way we finish stage 5 with 1 health (3dmg = avoiding 2dmg ballerinas and 1dmg bat at 5-3) Frame 26833 So currently I'm sticking to the last one. Other improvements pointed out by Scumtron, 5-3 final walljumps were not perfect, so 2 frames can be saved at each place (3 times), saving 6 frames. And subtimer will be need to manipulate to get our sweet 3 frames back. Stay tuned :) edit: and another one spotted by Scumtron is better jumping at 5-3 1st screen between tysons to save 1 frame.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Little status update. As you see, I've finally made huge progress from the 4-1 resync (WIP83v6 to keep Scumtron's half pixel save) and now I'm at 6-1 as WIP115v1. Now it's time to check things up from 5-1 to 6-1 to make sure everything is fastest. 6-2 will be hellish to optimize. This is my longest project so far and I'm eagerly waiting to finish Ryu's magical journey. edit: listing unimprovable (already tested) places: - 2-2 different bullet boosting can save 1 frame but ruins 3rd screen (first) knife bitch, making impossible to avoid it - 4-1 1st screen end with fewer position sacrifice to save 1 frame but ruins 3rd screen (final) bullet. Resyncing ruins 4-3 knife bitch - 5-1 1st bird avoid without 0.5px sacrifice ruins interrupt/despawning - 5-2 4th screen uses delay on purpose to manipulate slot 6 bird and slot 7 bird edit2: the latest usermovie includes the 4-1 end improvement which actually gives a better knife bitch at 5-2 because of the subtimer value. Before I dive in to 6-2/6-3 optimizations, I will list down the places for interrupt juggling for future reference for next knife bitches, and try different routes for 6-2.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
The movie page has outdated description. The improvement is "killing the second rat while the yellow toad jumps forward without bumping in to the camera borders".
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
I'm done on my part, couldn't find anymore improvements since my previous post in this thread. edit: since I've found the last improvements (and did most of the input), let me be the main author.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
jzfts found some improvements that I improved upon. Adding him as co-author. Latest usermovie: User movie #32235975719022400 more frames saved, final one on my part. User movie #32252492319341586 jhztfs saved a lot of frames and then I saved some more... frame war is still going User movie #32260516525100337 8th and probably final version, submission text includes all improvements: User movie #32323871018795766
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Whoops, just realized my mistake in the submission text. Thanks Spikestuff.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Post subject: Most submission by one TASer in the submission queue
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Spikestuff wrote:
jhztfs has updated the input. It can be seen here: User movie #32183071323127486
Improved it with 1 frame, details in the User movie #32190458606669414 edit: the latest version is the v9: User movie #32211538459515849
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Well, I don't find keno interesting IRL either. Regarding the numbers chosen, it's the fastest and shortest one. The draw of the numbers are impossible to manipulate without losing frames at a large degree (1~80 each time). There are 80 numbers and you have 0x1E (30 frames) to manipulate your desired number from the random seed (input + name is the seed). Since not every value is possible to manipulate in the shortest window (because of the RNG), I had to stick with my original seed and minimize the delays as low as I could. A perfect TAS would bruteforce all the 1 letter named Mr. and manipulate 10 to 80 with the lowest delays (30 frames) for all the numbers. This TAS "loses" 75 frames from the theoritically (not really possible) movie.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Archanfel wrote:
I always hoped that legendary farewell letter about "I won't be a part of this cancerous misery" was just temporary insanity.
On topic, this battletoads improvement made weeks before this. Off topic, but I still won't be part of that cancerous misery we all know what I'm reffering to. But you can count on me exploiting the shit out of Half-Life 1 demos.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Post subject: A departure (split from 4707S)
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Akse: - and I completly disagree on DoomWorld especially it's wiki, and yes, thank you for your golden response about my question (the totally unrelated answer I got from this golden guy: "Don't use it" referring to 1 pharagraph amongst whatever questions containing "Unfortunately I only have the shareware version", thread at doomworld, topic called TAS demos) - "In Doom speedrunning, a glide is a movement through a space which is typically 32 units, in which the player's position relative to the space has no fractional component, and is facing in the direction of one of the axes" go watch the map layouts, and you will see there are many maps with the very same angle you abused once with idiotic manuvers (GF50 SR50 TR1 until you magically glide through, very optimal yes) - "After any teleportation player gets stuck for quite a while (unless he catches a bullet in his ass)." You failed to understand it, unneccessary to continue any discussion. Truncated: - "The justification was that it is possible with an external driver, which Doom natively supports, so this is what a God player would use" I request the admins here to delete all my movies and my profile / acount, I'm not going to use this site anymore or take part in any scenes related to speedrunning or whatever, I won't be a part of this cancerous misery.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Reply to Truncated (too many quotes): 1. Congratulations on allowing players to use whatever arbitrary values that isn't replicable with real conditions. Yes, the game accepts GF90 too, can I submit it then as an "experimental exception"...? 2. Seriously, just proove me wrong, are you going to say that the judges' task is ask whatever TASer about his viewpoint and run a demo in a dos EXE? Can I finally get some response about what the hell are you doing? Regarding the fantastic "reasons": - No, it's not left+right, it has nothing to do with the possibilty to PRESS the buttons. It's about the game DOESN'T PROCESSES THE INPUT you give, meaning YOU CAN'T DO WHAT THE GAME DOESN'T DO. How the fuck do I need to emphasize this? - No, the game doesn't says "Indigo: is turbo!" for quicker running, it's only activated if 2 conditions are met, which is absolutely obvious in the source code, I would like to ask you to read my General\DOOM rules thread and educate yourself. 3. You are fucking hilarous, I'm done. edit: oh, and as I've already mentioned on a few places multiple times, none of these TASes are high quality (void glitch is possible on many places yet not used and totally suboptimal at e3m5 or e3m6 whatever. movement is totally sluggish (player waits for 20 tics and go forward if he magically gets into the teleport), do I need to fucking continue?
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
good old phpbb :insert disappointment here:
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
Kyman wrote:
EDIT: I tried the input MESHUGGAH mentioned and it gave me a 7 frame slower fadeout of 599 instead of 592 in the submission. I cannot find any sequence of input in Bizhawk that beats frame 592.
Yes, that was the expected result on bizhawk. Best inputs for vba-rr-24. Each input yields in different result among the emulators, don't know the technical reason behind this. S, empty, empty, S: 680 S, A, empty, S: 680 A, S, empty, S: 682 S, empty, S: 684 S, empty, A, S: 684 S, empty, S, empty, S: 684 edit: forgot to say, I think just leave it as is, no need to come up another input that works in currently used emulator which will be wrong again next time someone uses another emulator.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
MESHUGGAH
Other
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player (1892)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
S, empty, S, empty, S is 2 frames slower in lsnes and (4) 5 frames slower in VBA. On VBA-rr-24, S, A, empty, S and S, empty, empty, S is the fastest. On lsnes-rr1-18e3, from top of my head: something 2nd subframe S, 8th subframe S and then empty, S?
F.|........
..|........
..|........
..|........
..|........
..|........
..|........
..|...S....
F.|........
..|...S....
F.|........
..|...S....
F.|........
..|........
..|........
..|........
..|........
..|........
..|........
..|........
..|...S....
According to my old notes, that's 6 frames faster. Ilari maybe has more knowledge of this particular bug.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...