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Regarding the name "Playground":
- It's way too similar to https://tasvideos.org/Movies-play Playaround
- Reading through synonyms, Backyard would be more appropriate for this tier if I understood it.
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Ferret Warlord wrote:
I actually made this run in 2005, not 2006 (publication was a slow process if your name wasn't Phil). Seventeen years ago! Back then we didn't even have memory watching, much less all the crazy things you youngins are using these days. It was just frame advance, save states, and input watching.
I would have never joined, if I couldn't use a piano roll. I tried "only hex-edit" for a rejected SNES Arkanoid Doh or what TAS and the holy trinity (bolded above) for SNES Assault Suit Valken. They were noob attempts.
In other words, some first-generation TASers did an exceptional job I will always admire the same way as writing code for landing on the moon with only pen and paper.
After I watched your TAS from 2006 https://tasvideos.org/554M I must say it looked like very good (technical quality), meanwhile there are some bad attempts every few years no matter how many tools at their disposal ready to be used.
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I paused @ 4:08 and voted yes. I'm at a loss of words after seeing this game for the first time.
Anime girls, the TAS blazing through some of the rounds, bosses get pwned...
MADE IT! And the bus comes no matter where you are lmao. O: Learn anything?
Some observations:
- Throughout the run, you use a "dash forward blue/white flame" which seems to be faster than walking/jumping. Shouldn't this used to close gaps? Example of gaps:
A: Walking areas like Round 6 intro (probably skill is blocked to be used?) and underwater Round 2
B: Moving in boss fights, for example Round 6 mini boss from 2 left enemy to 1 right enemy, you engage with the "flurry of staff" skill and then use the "dash forward blue/white flame"
- Round 6 THE TRIATHLON @ 6:04 in the encode, you travel the stairs 3 times, why? I see it's empty at first and then there is one enemy.
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AndyDick wrote:
After truncating the empty space on the input file, I think this comes in at 51.44 51.47 seconds.
For such a short game, it's nice to see new time saves being found and I always find it funny that going slower can make a run faster overall. It's one of those quirks about "seeded" games that is easy to overlook.
I have watched ShesChardcore do RTA speedruns for years on Twitch and am looking forward to more submissions from this author!
And I did overlook it. I've thought it's similar to the previous Waldo game where it's position can be nearly everywhere, while this game only has 5 variations for each level.
ShesChardcore wrote:
Edit: thanks again for diving into this with me!
I'm always happy when I see someone improving a TAS I've made/worked on which I've thought at some time it's the fastest! I mean of course I feel a little shame and don't like to commit mistakes, but that's something part of human life.
Also I like to help new TASers especially if they are doing a great job like you!
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Oh thanks, so I need to do something along the lines after renaming that line as "Total distance required":
- 2 positive values: use MAX
- 1 negative 1 positive: ABS(MIN) * 2 + MAX
- 2 negative values: use MIN
I usually not that bad at distance calculations, don't know what was I thinking...
Can you verify my math being ok?
edit: Thanks! I will continue working on this in the following days, just saying.
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Was reading a github issue when found this. Don't like the name "Playground".
My usual minority opinion is playground, where children can play with various toys are kinda different than what this demo tier supposed to embrace. Isn't there any synonyms or just an area inside a playground that fits better, anything like sandbox?
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edit: looks like I failed at math, so I'm currently redumping with correct math. this also affects theoretical fastest strategy in my previous post
Old text
I think my math is OK, just named them a bit confusing regarding my google sheet:
2nd row XDistanceWaldo = memory.read_u16_le(0x60b) + memory.readbyte(0xa3) - memory.read_u16_le(0x51) = Distance from starting camera + cursor X position to Waldo X position
3rd row XDistanceScroll = memory.read_u16_le(0x613) + memory.readbyte(0xa3) - memory.read_u16_le(0x51) = Distance from starting caemra + cursor X position to Scroll X position
If the distance is negative, it's on the left side from starting point, or else right side
edit: yes, as you mention, the following value need to be changed to respect 2 positive values being subtracted. Yeah I think ABS(value-value) should fix that problem.
5th row Waldo + Scroll = The absolute value of the previous two values subtracted
Now that's where I think my math might be faulty. I currently used ABS(value) - ABS(value) but this might be just ABS(value-value) for total number of pixels between the two objects. But I'm confident in the other values/math being OK.
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I was in the mood to make a simple test movie up to 1st fight 1st round.
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/637821744515140397
My UserFile goes to the character select screen 1436. Note that I didn't turned off music and sound, it would be 1240. This TAS by KusogeMan reaches character select screen at 1279
Later I chose Shang Tsung just for simply testing stuffs.
Menu / non-gameplay navigation:
- A single button press can lead to 1 frame loss because of the way input is processed
- At least 1 screen requires multiple S buttons to be fastest for fading out
- On subsequent screens (for example beginning screens before the Start Options screen) can be "early input"-ed. edit: Early Input (not copyrighted/trademarked) means the ability to press a button before a series of lag frames which will be processed after the lag frames.
- Some inputs can be combined like R+S at selecting difficulty
Enemy manipulation:
- The easiest way to manipulate before a fight is pressing buttons right before the first button that has immediate action when pressed.
- Pressing U/D/L/R and pressing A/B/X/S/s and their combination should lead to all possible first action from enemy
- If this is not enough, you can also press buttons earlier and anytime during the fight. Pressing the buttons without delivering the action also helps in changing enemy action.
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I nearly finished mapping out all Waldo and Scroll positions with the help of this TAS.
edit: the sheet contains currently assumed level / variations logic and the absolute frame distance between camera X Y at the beginning of a level and Waldo XY and Scroll XY
Public google drive sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zw1OsULvof_ozyipmykztuWJSefXIX56RqOgKhGKNKw/edit?usp=sharingPersonal TODOs:
- Dump Variation 0s for remaining levels
- Dump Variation 2,3,4 for final Waldos (if there is any)
Best strategy assuming I made the math right (I used my own made up level names of crystal ball picture over the ones from the manual, which has names like "Land of the Gargantuas" and "The Enchanted Underground"):
Dumping in progress
Old text
- First level Variations: 1, 2, 3, 4 (0 blocked)
- Fastest First levels: Waving Man Persia 3 then 2, Snake 4 then 1, DarkKobold 3 then 2, Man Head 4 then 0
- Fastest Variation patterns for each starting levels not counting faithfully Waldo (requires more data for precise final strategy):
Waving Man Persia 3, Snake 1, DarkKobold 2, Man Head 4, Waldo 1
Waving Man Persia 2, Snake 4, DarkKobold 3, Man Head 0, Waldo 1
edit: moar addresses
00A3 b u 0 RAM Cursor X
00A4 b u 0 RAM Cursor Y
000C b u 0 RAM
002F b u 0 RAM
003B b u 0 RAM
0042 b u 0 RAM
0066 b u 0 RAM Fade Timer
0 S _ 1
0607 b h 0 RAM
0608 b u 0 RAM
0609 b u 0 RAM
060A b u 0 RAM
060B w u 0 RAM Waldo X
060D b u 0 RAM Waldo Y
060E b u 0 RAM
0 S _ 1
060F b h 0 RAM
0610 b u 0 RAM
0611 b u 0 RAM
0612 b u 0 RAM
0613 w u 0 RAM Scroll X
0615 b u 0 RAM Scroll Y
0616 b u 0 RAM
0617 b u 0 RAM
Lua script used to dump distances at lag frame
Language: nasm
-- Waldo X - (Cursor X + Cam X)
local XDistanceWaldo = memory.read_u16_le(0x60b) - (memory.readbyte(0xa3) + memory.read_u16_le(0x51))
-- Scroll X - (Cursor X - Cam X)
local XDistanceScroll = memory.read_u16_le(0x613) - (memory.readbyte(0xa3) + memory.read_u16_le(0x51))
-- Waldo Y - cursor Y
local YDistanceWaldo = memory.readbyte(0x60d) - memory.readbyte(0xa4)
-- Scroll Y - cursor Y
local YDistanceScroll = memory.readbyte(0x615) - memory.readbyte(0xa4)
local WaldoScrollDiff = math.abs(XDistanceWaldo - XDistanceScroll)
console.log(XDistanceWaldo)
console.log(XDistanceScroll)
console.log(YDistanceWaldo)
console.log(YDistanceScroll)
console.log(WaldoScrollDiff)
Lua script used to dump variations by running the script when you would press the final A to start a level
Language: nasm
local Start = 1500
local End = 1600
local Buttons = {["P1 A"] = true}
local Values = 0xa7
local Cycle = 0
savestate.saveslot(3)
while i < 50 do
savestate.loadslot(3)
while emu.framecount() < End do
if emu.framecount() - Start == Cycle then
joypad.set(Buttons)
end
emu.frameadvance()
end
Cycle = Cycle + 1
console.log(memory.readbyte(Values))
end
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First of all good job, this speedrun seems to be very good despite the lack of combos.
I only played casually this game on SNES. Without any expert knowledge on this game, I think there should be some more preferable characters as you also mention it.
1. Fighting strategy
I know that the CPU will try to counter your inputs when you are about to pull something, but I wonder if there's any character with short and fast enough movement or action that's able to improve the following fight parts by manipulating the end of the fight with a combo.
Assuming that the death animation of the enemy and the players animation not affecting the time of finishing a round, because you use uppercut finishes usually.
- Character distance between Player spamming HP while Enemy still coming, notice Motaro fights difference while Kabal fights were same
- Ending with Combo of an Uppercut with a character Skill
- Motaro fight 1, 2 and Shao Khan 1, 2- different character to try
The strategies look very solid, I just think that fights might be manipulated to end with a combo. Sorry for bothering if you already tried these or just simply the assumptions are wrong.
2. Any% goal
I wonder if there's any trick or strategy to implement from https://tasvideos.org/4518S TAS
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Scripting out all the different patterns sounds like a good idea and hopefully we can figure out how to access each one.
Final edit for this post
- 0x00A7 == 0x00C5 is holding the variation as in the value 1, 2, 3, 4 (4 variations)
- Stage 1 of this TAS: 1
- Stage 2 snake: 3 and the variation blocked is 1
- Stage 3: 2
- Stage 4: 4
- Stage 5: 1
NesHawk first lag frame after Stage Select
1510 - Starting as soon as possible Variation 2
1542 - Default P Stage Start
1622 - Down/Left Old Man Stage Start 3 3 3 2 1 4 1 3 3 3 1 4 3 2 2 1 -116
1622 - Up/Right/Select Snake Stage Start -116
Variations after frame 1510 for 1st stage
2 2 2 3 1 1 3 3 4 4 2 1 2 4 3 1 1 2 3 2 1 4 4 2 2
- Variation generated at the lag frame right before starting the stage RNG subroutine $C43D uses 0x00C1, C2, C3... C7 and stores result in A7
Addresses
0051 w u 0 RAM CAM X
0052 b u 0 RAM CAM X - 1
0051 b u 0 RAM CAM X - 2
00A7 b u 0 RAM Variation
00A3 b u 0 RAM Cursor X
00A4 b u 0 RAM Cursor Y
My TODOs:
- Find Waldo and Scroll X Y
- Verify number of variations (Only 4 variation of Waldo and Scroll or 4 variation of Waldo and 4 variation of Scroll)
- First just dump distance from
Starting Cam X Y + Starting Cursor X Y to Waldo X Y
Starting Cam X Y + Starting Cursor X Y to Scroll X Y
Scroll X Y to Waldo X Y
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Spikestuff wrote:
MESHUGGAH wrote:
Have no idea how to open a QuickNes movie and make it use NesHawk without getting multiple different errors while using TAStudio and doing this.
Basically just make an NESHawk movie and then extract contents of both of them and move the input and select parts of the header file (so author name, rerecord count) and then rezip it up again.
Converted to NESHawk input.
- If I opened up QuickNes movie as tasproj and changed core through TAStudio Header settings, it gave me problems for syncing options not having some values
- If I opened up QuickNes movie file as zip and copy pasted to a new NesHawk movie, I've got thousands (number of N frames) of oops and some fatal errors
- If I opened up QuickNes movie file as (edited) tasproj and copied the Input Log from TAStudio to a new NesHawk movie, "invalid mnemonic" and some fatal errors, probably because I get 2 players NesHawk movie and the original movie was 1 player QuickNes
Thanks for converting the input!
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This submission file uses QuickNes. Syncs on NesHawk by inserting 1 frame in the beginning. Have no idea how to open a QuickNes movie and make it use NesHawk without getting multiple different errors while using TAStudio and doing this.
T- HQ screen - You can press buttons S/s/B/A to get a sound effect. 1 sound / 3 frames, S _ _ _ S _ _ _ but maximum played 5 times at once
Menu - 2 frame delay used in this TAS
Now you mentioned level patterns. I guess I can find the RNG and dump every possible patterns and calculate the distance from the starting position to Waldo position with Lua.
I think there is nothing else than waiting / delaying start (edit) at each stage for changing RNG, so I assume I can start debugging.
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Good job for your first TAS which improves another TAS!
So this game is a quest to TAS by sacrificing frames for:
- most optimal starting level (0 or N number of delays)
- most optimal Waldo location (0 or N number of delays)
- most optimal next level (0 or N number of frames to wait until the new selection is registered)
I guess will take a look at this inside an emu within the next days.
edit: ah, mistook this Waldo "2" TAS with the original Where's Waldo? TAS. In this case, I just moved on the sequel with the followings in mind.
I remember when I TASed this game while TASing 2 other games that day, I tested the "sacrifice N number of frames before starting first level" up to the point which the currently published TAS has (don't know exact value, maybe 7?) and +1. Then I TASed up to stage 3 and decided my selected number of frames delay was the best among them. But it's not, thanks for proving me wrong!
Obvious yes vote!
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adelikat wrote:
Let's play a word association game, say the first word that comes to your mind when I say: "torrent".
Ocean
adelikat wrote:
...site using torrents legally...
archive.org, publicdomaintorrents.info, academictorrents.com, few universities...
Probably there's a lot more (edit) white legal / grey legal websites using torrent technology to reduce bandwidth on the original source by helping with upstream from downloaders.
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Short and fast. Yes vote.
Personal opinions reflecting SmashManiacs post:
1. Long initial system setup: I guess it's ok, I chuckled at melonDS melon tastes great, so it has minimal entertainment value
2. PWC firmware: I guess it's ok. Unsure how specific firmware are allowed or not.
3. Emulator injecting its own username and message: Same answer as step 1 + If the TASer selected these setups and they are allowed, I guess it's ok.
4. good point, agree with you
5. too fast to give my opinion on this one
6. It was okay for me. These game and watch games don't have other opportunities for waiting than:
- Stand in one place
- Move somewhere
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Oh, thanks Spikestuff! I've didn't saw previous movie was Hourglass while this is a libTAS movie.
One last question regarding Wiki: PlatformFramerates : that page lists multiple Linux framerates like 29,411764705882355 twice and 29,41176470588235 (1 digit less). Is this a byproduct of using libTAS or is it a potential bug on this site when someone catalogs it...?
I would assume that only a selection of framerates to be available for a platform like 50 (PAL) and 60 (NTSC) and some console-verified values, but not precision (number of digits) different values.
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SmashManiac wrote:
Third, the creator of this homebrew, Kevin Hanley, released the full version for free on their website back in 2020, so the budget argument against it is invalid.
I've tried to google his name and this game name but found no availability to obtain it. The product is discontinued on retrousb (original first party). Since it's only obtainable by first party as a free version, would you mind sharing the link and post it here? Thanks!
And I hope MrTASer will try it because frogger flashing through obstacles on the highway and the waters is very good.
edit: thanks for sharing the link Bigbass!
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Quality game with quality TAS. Obvious yes vote. I was sold after wallclipping with butt front.
I guess these wallclips are improvable since this TAS sometimes does it in 1, 2(early garden), 4 (castle) steps or with a different method (butt front wall clip).
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- Metroid elements
- (near) Perfect sound design also Metorid music remix, DKC music remix
- Long mazes (tubes) without ability to see the end
- Optimized movements
- Short TAS and sweet graphics
Obvious yes vote
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EZGames69 wrote:
The very first level for one needs to have Barney wait on a raft that goes faster than his movement speed, and the TAS has to wait till the very end of that platform speed before jumping off to maximize it.
Amazing superplay.
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