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jlun2 wrote:
Just curious, but is it possible to have a movie that syncs in both old and new PPU and still be fastest?
Making a movie that syncs on both PPU: yes, the easiest to do
Making a movie that syncs on both PPU and console: have very low chance, but it's possible in theory (note the reset usage)
Making a movie that syncs on one of the PPU and console: have higher chance (note the reset usage)
You can easily convert it to your desired choice by observing the current PPU cycle at the very last input frame of the movie and one of the memory variables that deals with changing scenes.
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AnS wrote:
Is it possible to have a movie that beats the game in the same amount of frames, but shows normal graphics in the ending? I would prefer to see it.
Yes. For this specific movie, change the last frame to STUDLR. You can also manipulate it with different position for the stone glitch (load the movie and remove the last R at frame 2144 in TAS Editor)
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Zeupar wrote:
(I prefer the classic frame wars in which the authors submit the runs featuring the improvements they find)
Well, I'm pretty sure that every little information about what improved could be gathered solely from the previous submission's thread. I'm pretty sure I would avoided submitting movie files for every frame I gathered (submitting != uploading)
I hope the others will also edit the submission text and add their comments.
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After a lot of observations and TASing sessions, my final movie is 2158 frames long. You can download the movie here.
I will submit it 10 hours later. I will add all the participants as co author who made an improvement to the game
(particularly: CoolKirby, TASeditor, was0x, MUGG and Masterjun)
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CoolKirby wrote:
*hugs Spikestuff back* Thanks for listing all the authors, by the way. That'll help in the final submission.
Good luck on your efforts, MESHUGGAH!
The frame wars post was also a nice touch by Spikestuff.
I'm currently at 2163 frame by improving room 1 with (10 improvements - 1 delay ==) 9 frames and room 2 with (8 improvements - 1 delay) 7 frames compared to 2169 run. (6 frames total). Currently I'm trying to optimize the wall clipping, a few frames lost there because of lag frames. Demo soon.here. (link fixed)
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Warp wrote:
The way I see it, there are two different aspects of "completing a game": From a purely technical point of view ("does it reach routine X, after which it proceeds to routine Y?") and from the viewer's point of view.
technical point of view = the way the game is developed (what we abuse here @ TASVideos)
viewer's point of view = the way it's meant to be played (what we perfect to make it look like a god plays the game)
Feel free to ask me regarding this topic on the appropriate thread or PM.
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As you see, I'm curently trying to squeze out a few frames. Using dash to kill sparky saves from a lot of lag frames, this way I leave room 1 10 frames earlier, edit: but it gives too much lag frames. TASeditor's advice (delying the frame you exit the room) is working, I have a 1860 room 2 exit movie (4 frames earlier than 2169f movie if I'm correct). But now I need to research the most optimal sacrifice and gain overall in the movie. So... it will take time....
I will try to also show the movie but I didn't successfully clip the wall no matter how I position myself.
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Spikestuff wrote:
Serious note MESHUGGAH are you sure this is the fastest it can go. Can't you go faster?
Short answer: nope.
Long answer: I was 5 frames away from the 16 frame improvement. Also note that this TAS doesn't tries to be faster as possible for the reason it's impossible so I instead positioined P1 to be lower on the "field" (bottom) where he can have a much better (and fastest) movement at those situations when I need to scroll the camera (which advances with the left-most player's speed and starts when the left-most player earns a specific distance calculated from the left side of the screen).
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Warp wrote:
I would otherwise be tempted to bring up the subject of "what constitutes game completion?" once again, but for some reason that I cannot fully understand, with this particular game it doesn't bother me at all.
The ending scene (what you see in this TAS) is a special scene that only possible by executing a specific subroutine (the game end routine). This is the very last thing you can see if you finish the game normally. There's no indicators (unlocking new mode or something change) other than that you can press start (once the scene ends) and return back to the main menu (the same way if you finish it normally). Once you press start, all the objects will be depleted from the memory (once the main menu starts to load).
Patashu wrote:
Isn't this glitch actually the only way to complete battletoads 2 player? Since otherwise you get stuck on the clinger winger level.
Yes, it is. edit: Without using continues and avoiding game over screen, this is (since you can use continue once you die on the clinger winger level bug).
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Any status update? Here's my final one: the 1 frame improvement done by removing a lag frame which later comes back. Ends around 2170 frame. If nobody has any idea or couldn't improve my 2169 run, than someone should submit it (I used Masterjun's wip and as I said, I'm not demanding any co-authorship).
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Masterjun wrote:
MESHUGGAH wrote:
Sparky and that red doo gives me Spark.
A red doo? Do you mean that pink Waddle Doo or a brown Waddle Dee?
If it's the Waddle Dee then it is obvious that you get Spark. To get Mix you have to swallow two enemies that would give you powers which a Waddle Dee does not.
That two. Don't know the names. If I swallow them, I get spark.
edit: so which place did you thought where's there a Waddle Doo and spark?
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CoolKirby wrote:
Don't you have to backtrack anyway once you reach the Waddle Doo, since the Hot Head is at least a screen away and usually is walking to the left?
You can manipulate the Hot Head to use laggy attack in room 3, that would "eliminate" the backtracking (and add lag frames, movement reduction). I tried to make a test movie but I can't reduce as much as many I improved with the "2169" route (literally I lose ~30 frames mostly because I'm bad).
Sparky and that red doo gives me Spark. Maybe the "order" of swallowing is important?
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CoolKirby wrote:
It is possible, since you can manipulate the Waddle Doo and Hot Head in the third room to walk toward each other and swallow them to Mix for stone instead of the enemies in the first room. But changing the route would lose all the little frame optimizations everyone's worked hard to implement, and it probably would end up slower anyway, so I don't think anyone should waste their time trying it.
Well, this means you can skip the backtracking (more than 100 frames) and just swallow at the laggy room 3. Why would it be slower?
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Little status update. Tested a lot of things, but couldn't improve anything more. The last movie I uploaded (the demonstration one) improves 1 frame at room 1 but loses it in room 2. Any other sub pixel positions at the sucking/swallowing part are likely to get lag frames before jumping/flying up to the cliff.
The remaining possible improvements I didn't test thoroughly:
-A different place to swallow enemies (okay, well I'm the only one who thinks this is possible so you can ignore this line).
-As Masterjun mentioned, decreasing your speed at various frames potentially removes a lag frame without changing the RNG. Of course the very same can happen backwards (being faster gives additional lag frames). You can use both D and "less" Rs to do this.
-Sometimes you can avoid lag frames with different length and starting positions for jumps.
-Optimizing the slope clipping
Good luck to anyone who finds a frame in the 2169 movie.
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Masterjun wrote:
Well, the reason is because you jumped on that 45° slope. The game then changes your position by using another address (I guess) because as soon as you hit the bottom of another floor you will regain the original speed...
This would explain it, however I don't understand how to regain the original speed without sacrificing any speed, since this way I have to delay it 1 frame (losing the improvement already).
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edit: so which place did you thought where's there a Waddle Doo and spark?