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neo_omegon wrote:
-Use Demonic Wolf's Soul at the final battle, then movie end, though I haven’t tested it.
You mean a Moon Coin? I know it's possible to make the battle end after the first form, but not right off the bat.
neo_omegon wrote:
There are other techniques there. Special attacks, whether it is lvl1 or lvl2/3, can be done twice successively, for example.
I'm pretty sure this is already used in the very first battle with Hawk. It's also been discovered that there's a way to have Duran use infinite techs (although it only ever seems to hit once, despite the two swings).
For some reason I tried to watch this using the translation ROM -_- Things I've noticed so far (that haven't already been said):
-I can't quite remember, but I think it's only necessary to talk to one person to get the fairy to appear. That one screen with the three Mushbooms can also be manipulated to have Rabites on it, which die a lot more quickly and can just be snuck past at night. Otherwise movement in general is well-optimised in terms of running as much as possible while still earning exp, and the double-character movement and attacking is a HEAP of fun to watch.
-The Machine Golems get stun-locked HARD, but it could be possible to save a few frames by killing the second one nearer to the place where it explodes so it doesn't have to limp the whole way over.
I'll mention everything else I can as the WIP progresses.
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praetarius3 wrote:
One glitch I use so far is forcing the game to allow strength on every lvl up (until stat cap at least); this is achieved by confusing/overloading the game; might not look too good and sacrifices a bit of time now, but makes more than up for it soon (max str 9-10 lvls too early).
I KNEW it worked something like that. I would watch this, but it desyncs as soon as the character menu comes up. Anyway, I've been really looking forward to a TAS of this game, so that someone would hopefully figure out how all the weird bugs like this work. Blazing through at incredibly low levels will be really interesting to watch, but it also means you'll probably have to make a trip back to the Mana Holy Land to get that first CC.
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Garland buys a Force Stealer later in his run anyway, so you might as well get it now.
Also this WIP is blazing along at the moment :O Seems like every time I check the site it's up to the next area already.
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What WILL save time is having someone else attack before becoming Agni to make up extra damage. For example, Zog has 6000 HP in his first form, so having someone with higher ACT than Ryu attack first will save a turn.
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janus wrote:
I'm likely to restart, just so I don't shop around too much for acorns (I can buy them by 9s in romero)
Aha. In that case, there are several things that could be hard to manipulate, but would save time if you could manage them:
-Getting Ryu better Vigor growth in the Frog fight; the ArmPad you get later on gives him 6 extra Def, and with better level growth he could make most of that up on his own. Would save ~10 seconds.
-Getting up to two C.Stn off the General from both fights.
-Having Bo use Frost instead of Fry when he doesn't need the extra 20 damage (happens in a couple of places, easy time saved).
-Getting the Protn item for Talon to drop from Gremlin; the odds are 1/15 but you might want to test this first so you don't have to restart from Romero if it doesn't work D:
-Giving Ryu the Rang before that Spearman fight?
janus wrote:
i hope I can get a better weapon before the boomerang (from the krypt), or i'll have to rely on dragons
I'm pretty sure the only available ones are the bought ones (for Ryu at least).
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Grats on a third published BoF2 TAS. In the meantime, this WIP is finally onto new stuff again! :D
That new strategy of getting Nina Atk-Up early on has proven really effective and probably saved a heap of frames. For the new stuff, SandWorm has low Def, so it could be worth testing Atk-Up in that fight too; Ryu should pull about ~150 per Slam hit, and Bo a little less. It might be harder to manipulate, but it has the advantage of starting a turn ealier. At the very least upping Bo and having him attack as well should wipe a couple of turns off.
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Finally got a chance to catch up on this (download didn't work last time I tried). The waits in the G.Roach fight aren't really bad at all, in fact it looks much smoother IMO, and the Uparupa fight is barely any longer at all. Now, for the EmpireSD! :D
The Guardeye fight worker out better than I expected with just Atk-Up, but I suggested a different strategy for the Archers on the previous page, if you have the WFruits for it. Necroman and Habaruku both get wrecked, just as predicted. I didn't quite realise originally just how quick it is to get the EmpireSD, but like the MeowST the results speak for themselves. It's great how the WIPs as a whole keep moving away from Dragon-spam and more towards other tactics.
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You could maybe try manipulating a Scimitar from the sword enemies before Phantasm, it should pull more damage than a Mid Arrow and be useful for quite a while. Otherwise the WIP so far looks really good.
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Uuuuuh the point of skipping Chopchop was to save time by only going to the Wildcat restaurant once, after seeing Jean in the basement ._. There also seems to be a slight delay when you pick up the SokletAR.
*Keeps watching*
The BronzeST seems nice and effective though. If you can get three special hits on G.Roach (starting at the first) Katt should make up the damage in three hits rather than four.
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janus wrote:
I wouldn't get that wisebl, but then what's the point? I will concentrate on attacks and not use the great dragon.
Err don't you need it for Barubary? You could easily grab him on your way to pick up Bleu, and get the WiseBL as you do currently (when you go to check the downstairs room to get Eichichi later).
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I'd say it probably would be, you'll just need to make sure that Hanz doesn't occupy the house with the WiseBL in it (if so get it first). You can pick him up in HomeTown at any time.
If you're backtracking that far, you could test not-getting Chopchop if you want. I mentioned more on that way back here. Kuwadora won't be a problem, he has quite low Def, the bigger problem will be Goldfly (and maybe J.Worm too like you suggested). For Uparupa you can just use a dragon and finish him off on round 2, he will never take any actions so barely any time will be lost.
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I'm really not sure about his team choice. I know that later on lowering Defense becomes important in order to be able to damage things at all, but Ground isn't a very good type choice against most of the bosses and Chikorita doesn't really offer anything at all as far as I can see. He could have picked another starter with Leer, or recruited something with Screech/Fake Tears. The slow-down for having a third recruit seems pretty negligible on Mt Freeze, and should be more than made up for by the extra damage output. Picking up a few Oran Berries would probably save more time than using Growl over and over again, and I don't even think I saw him get Power Bands for his team. Manipulating some TM's wouldn't have done any harm either, although Cubone can't get Rock Tomb because it got converted to the Rocky Orb item.
I always though Squirtle would be a good choice; he gets Bubble at Lv7 for powerful ranged damage and Water Gun later on, as well as Tail Whip. An Ice Beam TM would also be really useful for Rayquaza, and Water hits a lot of the bosses better than Ground. I know Cubone gets STAB on Bone Club (and can also learn Ice Beam), but it still leaves his damage weaker overall. A Mawile could be recruited in Magma Cavern for Fake Tears, in addition to a more useful partner. Maybe Pikachu; Thunder Wave and Double Team I could see being really useful, in addition to Tail Whip and Quick Attack (to hit from second position/range). Wouldn't do much good against Groudon but then neither did Chikorita really.
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SOOOOOOoooooo I can finally be useful again! :D
The EmpireSD is by far the strongest weapon in BoF2. You can reach it as
soon as you can fly, but you'll need the CharmRod to have any luck fishing it
out.
I don't think the type of bait makes any difference in regards to treasure boxes.
Based on the levels in the current run, Ryu will achieve the following damage outputs in battles after getting the EmpireSD:
67 Str @ Lv17, +160 from EmpireSD gives 227 Off. x2 from Atk-Up gives 454, and Special hits do double damage. For the battles in Bando, you only have three party members, so the Scramble formation will give him the best damage output there.
-Footman (954 HP, 135 Def) possible damages: 477, 526, 578, 625. Can be taken out in two hits.
-Zombies: Will stay the same.
Ryu levels up here! Str +4, gives 462 final Off.
-Necroman (2400 HP, 132 Def): 492, 544, 596, 648. Provided Ryu averages over 600 damage per hit, this could be over in four hits!
Ray: Will stay the same.
Back to Normal formation.
-Archer(s) (300 HP, 130 Def): Atk-Up will be slower than just firing off a dragon here, and with only 231 Off the best Ryu can do in one hit is 197. During the second battle however, it will probably be faster to make him do a Special hit and have Bleu well-cast Freeze (for ~150) rather than restore Ryu's AP over two turns. This can also work from position 1 or 2 in Scramble (max 182), or even p3 like Ryu is currently (max 152).
-Guardeye(s) (538 HP, 169 Def): The Puppy + Frizbee strategy will still be more effective for taking out the first two eyes, but if you can get an Atk-Up in without losing time, Ryu has a chance to take out the third one in one hit from the front of a Normal formation (438, 482, 529, 575). However, you must let the Guardeye use Cure 3 rather than defend to do this, so it will heal off the damage from the Frizbee, meaning Ryu must be at the front of the Normal formation (Scramble will make his max damage fall short as 532) and roll max damage. This will make it harder to manipulate attacks on the right people, but it should save time if you can pull it off.
-Habaruku (2500 HP, 131 Def): 495, 544, 599, 648. Same deal as Necroman, but with less leeway.
Ryu levels up here! Str +1 (OH BABY!), gives 464 final Off.
-Barubary (first fight): Same deal as now. This needs to be completed ASAP, and casting Atk-Up will negate any time saved by not-using G Drgn.
-Barubary (second fight, 3750 HP, 140 Def): Because Ryu fights this alone, he will be auto-set to the solitary Normal formation, which means neutrally-modified damage (374, 412, 452, 490). That's an 8-hit at best... but only if he has a method of using Atk-Up on himself. For that he will need a Medicate, which are dropped by both Monopeds and Fastmans (early-game enemies) at a rate of 1/85. Or you could go for the MedusaSH (dropped by the fabled N.Riders @ 1/43), which would be more amusing but probably slower, unless you just want to get one to test.
Ryu levels up here! Str +5, gives 474 final Off.
Back to Scramble, so that both Ryu and Katt can attack well.
Deathevn (10000 HP, 140 Def): 462, 508, 558, 606. Combined with what Katt does that results in about 9 turns of attacking (although two Special hits per turn may be hard to manipulate).
Actually thinking on that a bit, a MedusaSH would allow you to use two Atk-Up's in one turn against Deathevn (for Katt and Ryu), allowing Katt to start attacking at full power right from turn 2 (rather than turn 3, since she outspeeds Bleu and Ryu has priority). It would also be faster to use normally because it wouldn't have a casting animation, but I don't think you could try to get it seriously until you get G Drgn.
Based on all that it, seems like the EmpireSD should make up for itself; the MeowST did after all and it only really had one battle to do it in. I don't remember where your last stock-up on WFruits is but I hope it's not too far back :(