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0% doesn't seem like it fits our current branch labeling formula. Could "Replay Glitch" work or is there anything else that could be described by that?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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which of you were the primary TASer?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Dimon12321 wrote:
Wow! I thought N+ was a flash game for PC only. I'll wait for Bizhawk release and than try this game.
Original N was flash for PC, N+ was released for other platforms.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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This TAS is excellent. To me it achieves something that is very difficult to achieve in TASing, personality and style. To me this movie feels like a cartoon character bending the laws of reality to mess with their opponent, which in this case is the game itself. Think this classic Looney Tunes scene. It's ironic or perhaps fitting considering the source material of the game here. The TAS messes around with the world, defying gravity, making sounds in tune to the music, even breaking the background in the train level. I definitely laughed in response to the start of the balloon level where he flew up past the top of the screen to reach the end early. Flying can sometimes feel cheap with TASes but here it feels satisfying. It is used to great effect in the playarounds during autoscrollers, which leads me to my one singular disappointment with the TAS. I feel the playaround on the train level loses a bit of... Well... Steam, and slows down towards the end.
The TAS also has some good variety to it, with a number of methods of movement on display. The more gimmicky stages didn't distract from the core gameplay, but actually added to the experience. Sure the gameplay in the American football section was fairly simplistic, but it felt superhuman jumping over all the opposing players regardless. The one potentially negative segment of the game was the roulette and the minigame chosen by the roulette after each level, but honestly, I found it kinda comical how Hamton was abused and they're honestly rather short.
I would demand this movie for stars if not for the playaround slowing down, but I still feel it's strong regardless.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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I disagree with Starring something just because the (potentially better) alternative branch is not done yet. I have no real opinions otherwise as I haven't watched the movie yet.
On Genpei, while the movie has quite a few good things, I didn't feel the movie blew me away. There was a little bit of grinding as well.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Nice improvement! Glad to see you back on this.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Bloopiero wrote:
Does [2966] GB Trip World by MUGG in 05:10.91 really deserve a place in Stars? It does have one cool glitch and a good rating, but in the end, it's a pretty unremarkable run, and it's not a very popular movie in general. And it's not like it balances that out with a ton of content or anything, seeing as it's the 3rd shortest movie in the tier and a GB game. Seems like a regular Moon to me, but that might just be my subjectivity at play, although Arc also suggested bumping it down in 2018.
I disagree with it being pretty unremarkable, there's a lot of variety and techniques beyond what you mentioned. The main unfortunate thing to me about the movie is the amount of pause spam causing a ringing sound.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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honestly the whole process of research is what makes TASing difficult to begin with. If you already know the inputs then obviously TASing this outcome would be easy
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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EZGames69 wrote:
I dont want hamton to go through what he did.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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EZGames69 wrote:
Bloopiero wrote:
If we're talking purely about gameplay speed, surely the famous [3662] A2600 Dragster by MrWint & Omnigamer in 00:08.39 submission would also fall under the triviality umbrella? RTA runners had achieved the time in this movie long before it was ever made, and there were no questions about it back then.
This is a different case since that movie is faster in frame count than RTA.
tbf the primary metric used for the run was IGT and it does match in that regard
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Aladdin is trivial on a conceptual level. You perform 0 gameplay and 0 difficult inputs. There is no optimization to be had.
Pinocchio was never actually rejected, it was cancelled, so no comment on that one.
#6345: MarbleousDave's NES Duck Hunt "All levels" in 1:15:12.15 in fact is noted as being obviously superhuman in terms of whether or not RTA could match, but it was still rejected for triviality due to it being trivial in a tool assisted setting.
The last one is especially key because to me it indicates that triviality is more than the ability of RTA players to match a time.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
Memory wrote:
It sounds like the game is non-trivial to optimize, it's just short enough to be able to match.
Elaborate this, because it seems a contradicting statement to me.
I disagree that it's the game itself to be short, it's more like that the glitch discovered opened a loophole that allows to skip any TASing challenge.
The vast majority of games that I am aware of that have been rejected for triviality in the past have been rejected for being trivial on a conceptual level. For example, #5799: Flip & ajfirecracker's Genesis Disney's Aladdin "demo glitch" in 00:02.64 is literally just setting a menu option. Here, the concept potentially allows for further optimization (movement is important), it's just not known to be possible.
EDIT: Something I saw somebody else bring up is that this could potentially encourage hiding work to prevent it from being replicated prior to a submission. I don't think this should be the be all end all deciding factor, but I don't like the idea of encouraging this.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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I'm not sure how I feel about this. This could be used as a precedent to reject any run where TAS happens to match RTA, and I'm not entirely sure that's what we want to do. What about cases where there are frame perfect ILs for a game performed by humans, but no RTA has strung them all together? Would we reject such a submission as well? What is triviality? Does the fact that RTA runners have performed it truly make it trivial? It sounds like the game is non-trivial to optimize, it's just short enough to be able to match.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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For clarification's sake, do you obtain magnet beam by spawning a physical magnet beam pickup and have Mega Man touch it or do you more or less have it written into your inventory?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
I just want to say that I find it weird that NFL Street 1 and NFL Street 2 could be considered as similar games while on the other hand we accepted games that have been released on different platforms.
I didn't watch the movie, so take this just as a thought about this rule in general.
This is a fairly interesting point. I do feel either this rule or the rule about how we handle games across multiple platforms might need some adjustment. I doubt this game could be less different from NFL Street 1 than [3739] Arcade Samurai Shodown II by NhatNM in 11:36.43 is from [2709] PSX Samurai Shodown II by NhatNM in 17:10.02. The latter being a port of the first and seemingly intended to be identical!
I'm not sure this rule is really a good thing.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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A 10 minute bk2 is only about 50KB, which is fairly small.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Keep in mind that people frequently just do cutsceneless encodes anyways.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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It has been a long time coming, hasn't it?
Link to video
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Seconding Samsara
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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to be honest this specific instance is pretty much the only I'd find acceptable. If two TASers have worked on the same TASes together and their submissions do not mention one having contributed more than the other, it seems silly to me to even guess at name ordering being a conscious or even an unconscious decision. It's too likely to be reading something that's not even really there.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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There is a way to collect the same sword orb twice in the three headed dragon boss:
So when an orb normally falls it simply lands on the ground like here:
However on this stage in particular it will then go to the height of the water in the background:
If you run into it the frame it moves to the height of the water, it counts as collecting it twice.
It's also possible to cancel your fall momentum by pressing against certain stalactites from the side for more than a frame (maybe 2). This can be combine with mashing jump to fly through the air a little.
RNG is $4A 2 byte little endian hex. It gets set at the start of stages by the global timer:
Masterjun wrote:
global timer ($3F) is used, $4B is initialized by: timer XOR 0xFF; and $4A is initialized by that $4B OR 0x88
Otherwise RNG only advances when it is called.
You lose a sword point if you cause the sword to clang and $4A (2 byte little endian hex) is is either 0xX0 or 0xX8 (= ends on 0 or 8). In any case all clangs cause RNG*5+0x3711 to be the new RNG.
The bad guy in the background of the dev level with the mirror will move the fan in a random direction and for a random amount of time. It is determined by the following:
Masterjun wrote:
the game takes one byte of RNG ($4B) to determine the direction and how far the fan will go to the left/right from the middle (after the attack it returns to the middle)
if 00-7F it will go to the left, if 80-FF it will go to the right
afterwards it uses that same byte and ANDs it with 7 (getting the lower 3 bits), and uses it as an index to determine the duration of the left/right-movement (both at 4 pixels per frame), and the table is:
12 11 10 10 9 9 6 4
so a byte of 0x00 and the fan will go 12 frames to the left, 0x80 and it will go 12 frames to the right
Also I didn't realize that ALL gates were on a timer, I just figured the stage didn't let you skip the 3-headed dragon boss because the gate wasn't working. I managed to skip it otherwise.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, for my TAS having the fan stay closest to center was the fastest possible setup, not sure if it still would be if you got the chest item but idk.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Arc wrote:
Memory wrote:
I disliked the lack of any real communications to the site, from submissions leading up to the event. Supposedly a lot of the communications happened within the TASBot discord itself, leading to a feeling of separation between the TASBot community and TASVideos itself.
I agree with this point. I would like to propose that future Dream Team Contests be used as one source (but not the only source) of content for future GDQ events. The timeline would be:
Brainstorm an interesting GDQ TAS idea
Set contest deadline before GDQ submission deadline
Hold the Dream Team Contest for a few months
Submit winning entry to GDQ
(Optional) Optimize winning TAS before actual GDQ event
Debut winning TAS to the world at GDQ
Submit and publish to TASVideos after GDQ
This idea seems like it would be win-win for everyone because (1) it generates TAS content specifically with GDQ in mind, (2) the TAS is completed before the GDQ submission deadline, (3) it gives everyone in the community a fair chance to have a TAS they made shown at a GDQ (if they win the contest), and (4) the competition ensures a TAS of high quality.
While I am not against this idea, it does ultimately depend on if console verification is required. If so, games for the contest would be limited to whatever platforms are able to be console verified, which would be unfortunate. I would like some clarification on whether or not console verification is a strict requirement.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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I think Aran;Jaegar's point is that while it may appear on the surface that Doomsday worked on the TAS alone, his work was largely built off of others, in contrast to some other nominees to this thread. I don't see what it has to do with Doomsday's post at all, but I believe that's what Aran is trying to say.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
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Personally I think this year the field is fairly weak for SNES TASer of 2019 so any choice is about as valid as any other. It's all a matter of opinion after all.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
However on this stage in particular it will then go to the height of the water in the background:
If you run into it the frame it moves to the height of the water, it counts as collecting it twice.
It's also possible to cancel your fall momentum by pressing against certain stalactites from the side for more than a frame (maybe 2). This can be combine with mashing jump to fly through the air a little.
RNG is $4A 2 byte little endian hex. It gets set at the start of stages by the global timer: