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Slowking wrote:
We could also push PF+GBT after SHT and throw a Zora game back in there. This way we should be able to do the speed tricks and have enough money to do snowhead first.
I think this way should come out ahead of the others. What do you guys think?
We SoS out of PF at least once anyway. Where we SoS does not matter...
Edit:
Ah no doesn't work. We would have to little Chus for SHT... sorry
But I'm still nto convinced, that those speed tricks will save more than 10 seconds. I would really like to see your calculation on that.
we are able to do Snowhead as the second temple with our current route already.
We have enough explosives after Milk Road and PF part1, but it should be still best to do WT in one trip, then GBT, then STT and finally SHT
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the speed tricks should save more than 10 seconds, I think. it should speed up pirate's fortress a bit and GBT boss key skip
I'll try to go on with the route now
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you could get to adult swordless with by beating all temples with deku stick instead of sword.
then you could open DoT and can get adult
you get kokiri sword on B if you travel back in time, although you became adult without a sword, if I remember right ;)
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yeah, it keeps the speed around corners
I thought, we would beat woodfall in one trip now :/
didn't you read my new route until milk road yet?
we are able to beat woodfall with old skip without using bomb hovers or something and we also found another bomb drop on the way to woodfall, what allows us to use much more superslides
because of my new ESS trick, getting 5 bombs from the spider in woodfall is absolutely quicker now, because we'll slide from the GB entrance to the water in one slide now ;)
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Synx wrote:
I don't get it... why is there tons of action with majoras mask, but no action here.
Come on.
This game is better than Majoras mask.
(sorry for doublepost)
maybe there was a lot of stuff left to discover, that got discovered in the last month?
the game is on a new level of beeing broken now ;)
we're also planning the new TAS route, but new tricks for MM are discovered daily at the moment ;)
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I made a quick speed test and it is exactly as fast as a normal superslide.
I was 5 frames slower, but those frames came from the time I have to wait, until I can do ESS
I'll upload it soon
edit: here you have it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysmi7yE8jmo
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petrie911 wrote:
*sigh* I'd help with the route planning, but the number of explosives things take seems to be changing constantly. This was so much easier when I was the only person discovering MM stuff. Perhaps I should work on 100% tricks.
yeah, things dramaticly changed with MM within the last 2 month ;)
to the route:
killing twimmold with only normal arrows doesn't cost much time. maybe 4 seconds
buying 20 instead of the 10 chus costs another 2 seconds, but the speed tricks will save much more time ;)
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I wondered that, too, at first, but the answer is yes.
if we would go to PF after the owl, the other way would be faster
we need those 50 rupees because we buy 20 chus. if we would have left 10 chus, we would only need 10 chus and getting 10 rupees from somewhere shouldn't be too hard
on the other hand could we use those 10 chus for a few speed tricks and this should be cooler and faster than using them just to do SHT before STT
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Slowking wrote:
Hmm well we don't have anything left that doesn't eat up explosives...
We just could use those Chus up. That will make a few hovers faster. Maybe it compensates us for the time we lost replacing Chus with bombs earlier to make "woodfall in one go" possible...
I didn't replace any bombchus with bombs. just 2 bomb staircases and the bomb hover in Deku Palace, so the time lost is maybe one seond!
couldn't we do SHT before STT now?
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the question is, what is the faster bomb drop
we have 10 bombchus or something left after GBT, so we can't do SHT or STT afterwards, but going to the town for just 10 bombchus would suck :/
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I've figured out, that the rock after the GB fences can drop bombs. it's ultra rare. I got 5 red rupees, but only one bomb drop!
this allows us to use more superslide and little speed tricks and woodfall in one go is definately possible now =)
- First Cycle
Collect 200 Rupees and Bank them, get Adult Wallet (200R)
- Second Cycle
SoDT when you are 9 and a half in-game hours away from the Ranch houses (Somewhere between the start of the cycle and equipping the Zora Mask)
Hit CT Owl, Withdraw 200R, Buy Bomb Bag + 20 Chus (70R) (20B) (20C)
ISG Slide to Great Bay area, ESS to Fence, Bomb Staircase over fence, Superslide to GB (16B) (19C)
Slide, ESS, Get 5 Bombs from Rock after Fences, Slide, Hit owl, get Zora Mask (19B)
Slide to South Bay, Flying Zora to Fountain (18B)
Bomb into Fountain, Wrong Warp to Ikana with Bomb Staircase, Slide to and Hit owl, get Bomb drop by tree, Recoil Flip down to River (18B) (8C)
Swim to Swamp, Go to Lost Woods, get 10 Rupees, ESS through Woods, get Bottle (17B) (80R)
Zora Slide to BigOcto, Kill BigOcto as Zora, sidestep through water to palace, Drink Red Potion (16B)
Get Sonata using old strat with Bomb Hover, Get SoS, Get 4 Deku Sticks, Enter Temple (13B) (8C)
Mega Flips past gap, Kill Lizarfos, Get Bow (11B) (7C)
ISG Slide to get OoB, 8 Mega Flips for Boss Key Skip, Kill Odolwa, Warp to CT (2B) (0C)
Buy 20 Bombchus, Leave to GB, Slide to Bush, Get 20 Bombs (20B) (20C)
Slide in front of Milk Road entrance, Kill Big Bird, Get 200 Rupees (19B) (200R)
We have now enough explosives to beat GBT, but afterwards not enough to beat STT or SHT. Any ideas?
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Azorae wrote:
Slowking wrote:
I don't even think that we need to substitute this much chus with bombs. For example in the Dekupalace we will just use bomb, that only costs us a few frames and through the megaflip in the FFWW we also save one chu.
Normally at that point, we'd have 3 chus (1 used to get into North bay, 1 to enter the fountain, 13 to FFWW (as is required even with the megaflip), 1 to get onto the fence, and 1 to clear the first gap in Woodfall. Since the Woodfall Boss Key Skip takes 7 superflip hovers, we need to use 4 less chus, including, as you said, the hover onto the fence in the Palace. The other 3 would come from entering the fountain with a bomb, either bomb hovering and using a bomb hover staircase plus one normal bomb hover in the fountain to possibly bring it down to 11 chus. If that doesn't work, we need to bomb hover staircase into North Bay or skip a superslide.
Slowking wrote:
Btw. we gain two songs of soaring. We have to warp to and out of woodfall2.
The warp out to Clock Town from Woodfall 2 would happen anyways after Great Bay Temple. Look at the Song of Soaring route I posted above.
we skip 2 song of soarings.
woodfall 1 part:
we use one song of soaring to warp away from the temple after completing it
woodfall 2 parts:
one to warp away after bow, one to warp to woodfall again and one to warp away from woodfall
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hovering over the gap is not really faster in deku palace
we have zora mask equipped already at that point and bombchu hovering takes time as well.
remember:
every bomb hover takes 3 seconds ;)
this might the factor, why it isn't faster
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ok, then I'll write the explosive route now ;)
I think, we should keep using my deku palace strat. the one with the extra hovers isn't really faster, because it uses 4 bombchu hovers or 2 ones, if you use my trick to turn around and a sidehop to grab the ledge, but this would force us to activate ISG a second time
zora jump should be the best choice here
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GBT is a good first temple, because all we need are a few bombs and bombchus to beat it
I doubt, that woodfall in one trip saves that much time. all it skips are 2 SoS, what are 45 seconds or something + flying over to the temple.
so let's compare it:
woodfall in 2 parts: 55 seconds
cutscence: 38 seconds
17 seconds saved. another SoS to get bombchus is definately not worth, because that would make it slower. if we use bomb hovers to have more bombchus for the skip, this would reduce the saved time a lot.
I also highly doubt, that we have enough explosives.
I'm totally against this way of beating woodfall temple, because it rips the "WTF" of leaving woodfall temple and watching the fairy cutscence isn't really interesting.
yeah, but as you can see, I was already in the loading zone of the cutscence and was able to die, so this could be possible ;)
Slowking wrote:
You can't reset in MM. It only saves when you timetravel, so you would have to do the whole cycle again...
Btw. I timed out Tayas speach after woodfall and it's about 38 seconds long. That's faster than two songs of soaring.
So doing woodfall in one go is definatly faster if we have enough Chus to do the bosskey skip.
hmm, I hope, that this doesn't turn out to be useful, because it is a lot more entertaining to not watch the cutscence ;)
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argh, I'm so close to figure out a mask cutscence skip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAftf9a9fvw
if we could pull this off, we would be able to save 3-4 minutes by skipping the cutscence and we would be also able to complete woodfall in one trip
azorae, nice route, but there are still a few explosion mistakes. I'll corect them now
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all we do between SHT and STT is warping to clock tower and buying chus, so there can't be any way to get 50 rupees
I'll correct the wrong explosive things in your route now and if everything works, we have the perfect route, I think
good job Azorae with all this =)
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Azorae wrote:
MrGrunz wrote:
you have to wait for a guay, shoot it, walk over to the big rupee and if you think about it, another pots game would be as fast ;)
You should spawn after completing STT right next to a guay that you can immediately turn to and shoot into the tree right next to you. The whole ordeal takes about 3 seconds. Also, another pots game would not work, for the reasons I stated. The 40 rupees need to come between the 2 purchases before Snowhead and STT, and we can do this very quickly and easily with the bat outside STT. There is, however, no quick way to get 40+ rupees after Snowhead. Any other time would require you to deposit 20 or more, then withdraw the same ammount, costing 20 seconds.
If Twinmold indeed only loses 4 seconds if killed with normal arrows, then I am almost certain STT->Snowhead is faster.
it's just sick, how all those tricks changed the route completely :D
one month ago, we had this temple order:
SHT-STT-WT-GBT
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Azorae wrote:
Snowhead temple will, at best, leave us 8 bombs and 0 bombchus. Then we'd have to buy 10 more bombs and 20 more chus for STT, and since we we only have 70 Rupees at that point, we need to find 40 more rupees. (we have the bat outside of STT if we do STT first). If that way to get 40 rupees takes less time than the extra time on Twinmold without fire arrows and the extra time shooting the bat outside the temple, then Snowhead first would be faster.
Keep in mind, however, that collecting these rupees before buying bombs and chus for Snowhead/Stone Tower would require 2 bank conversations (deposit and withdrawl), because we are restricted to collecting 20 rupees on top of the 180 from the Zora Pots game.
We basically need to find 40 rupees between buying bombs and chus for Snowhead and buying bombs and chus for Stone Tower, and do it in less than 10 seconds (being generous - I still believe that Twinmold with normal arrows would be just as fast.)
we have no route yet, just ideas
using normal arrows would be only 2-4 seconds slower, what is not a big deal, but then again, you have to wait for a guay, shoot it, walk over to the big rupee and if you think about it, another pots game would be as fast ;)
