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JSmith wrote:
MrGrunz wrote:
our plan is to shoot the 4 fire arrows and after that we want to have no magic anymore, so we don't have to equip the normal bow to shoot normal arrows ;)
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I want to figure out a route, that beats SHT before STT and skips the banker conversation, so I'll have to leave STT with 6 explosives, what my route did :/
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Slowking wrote:
And where do we waste all this magic? I mean we don't have the goron mask anymore. Sound to me like it will cost time, rather than save it.
Btw. I found a proble. We need a bomb once we are in the moon to SS. Otherwise it will take us ages to get to majoras mask.
that bomb was the bomb I had to save anywhere and for my route, I saved it in the snowhead bridge room ;)
we need 6 explosives after the last temple
we waste the magic while swimming as zora link over to the small key chest ;)
edit:
Azorae was right!
woodfall boss key skip takes 8 mega flips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gapdfKkd3sI&feature=channel_page
let's get the route done :)
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Slowking wrote:
Well do we need magic any time before in STT except for turning it? If not it should suffice to fire one more light arrow after the twinmold battle even if we use fire arrows...
our plan is to shoot the 4 fire arrows and after that we want to have no magic anymore, so we don't have to equip the normal bow to shoot normal arrows ;)
and petrie, I had the same idea already. we have 3 explosives to waste, but if we aren't able to damage us enough before woodfall, we would need 2 of those explosives
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you can't beat wizrobe in one cycle, so deku stick and arrows are the best choice there
As I said already, I'm going to test a lot of things tomorrow
Hopefully, Petrie will come here and tell us everything about Twimmold, so we know, what we have to do and what options we have.
it's just awesome, how we try to save every second we can :)
here's the new deku palace strategy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxDcMfwTMuM
1. use a Bombchu for the first hover. we have a few chus, we can waste
2. we have zora mask, so we can simply jump over to the ledge instead of deku fyling
3. there are a few pixels, that allow you to do the last hover with only one bomb. it's a lot harder than it looks like. I had just luck with this discovery, because it's mainly up to your position, if you get up there with only one bomb hover ;)
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I'm going to cominated both routes together to find the best one.
I'll do that tomorrow
the blue and the red mold have a different health. fire arrows + normal arrows is the best strategy and saves probably around 10 seconds ;)
I also can't see anything, that makes snowhead faster if we do it as the last temple
damn it, swordless TAS will be so awesome =)
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I saw a few explosion mistakes, but none of them made anything impossible.
I'll test your route later
shooting a bat is not possible, because we have no magic after twimmold
so the only thing changed are the bomb drops.
we actually wanted to do SHT before STT, so we have fire arrows for twimmold
you also need 5 bombs to get into the tower early, I think
I'll try to get a route with those bomb drops and old woodfall skip. I'm also going to TAS the old woodfall skip.
getting bomb drops costs time as well, that's the problem
edit: those 10 bombs on the way to the ranch are perfectly on our way :)
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Slowking wrote:
Nice one. ^^
Get last Zora Egg via Recoil Flip (140r; 11b; 9c)
Empty Bottles again
Go to Pinnacle Rock twice and get rest of Zora Eggs
Learn New Wave Bossa Nova
Play Zora Pots Game twice (270r; 11b; 9c)
How do you get from 140r to 270r? I get 320r. o.O
I made the same mistake at first, too ;)
think about it:
we have a bag, that can carry 200 rupees. at this point, we have 70 rupees in our bag, because we played zora pots game twice before and spent 110 rupees for bombs and bombchus.
so if we play pots game twice again, we get 130 rupees.
140+130=270
the number of rupees is always the number of rupees in total.
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ok, I found a way to save that one bomb, so we leave ST with 5 bombs and 1 bombchu now, what is exactly the number of nescessary explosives :)
here's the new Wizrobe strategy and Snowhead Bridge Room without Bombs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fr0cXqXNgM
we'll finish the run with 0 bombs and 0 bombchus now ;)
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theenglishman wrote:
MrGrunz wrote:
our goal is the fastest time and I think, that it on't be to hard to listen to that beeping for about 3-4 minutes of gameplay
the advantage of SS-ESS combination over to the octo is, that we can start supersliding directly after leaving the magic store. it should be faster
hmm, I we won't go through any of the "dawn of new day" things, I think. we spend nearly every time in temples. pirate's fortress is a temple as well
I disagree. May I quote from a comment on Mukki's submission?
zdude255 wrote:
I also drop about a second in Ikana Canyon to pick up a fairy to replenish my health, otherwise the last fifteen minutes of my movie would have been ruined by annoying bleeping.THANK YOU!!!
See?
after havind a look at the route again, we're able to waste 2 bombs and one bombchu in woodfall temple, because we're going to buy directly after it 10 bombs and 20 bombchus
we should simply sidehop through the water, what is also the faster way here, and see, how much health we have afterwards. if we start to go into the poisoned water with 3 hearts, we won't have any beeping afterwards
if we have 1,5 hearts, we can simply use those 3 explosives to kill usself
won't be as fast, but it won't cost too much time
if the infinite deku stick strategy doesn't work, we use 2 sticks at wizrobe and 4 at garo's master ;)
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our goal is the fastest time and I think, that it on't be to hard to listen to that beeping for about 3-4 minutes of gameplay
the advantage of SS-ESS combination over to the octo is, that we can start supersliding directly after leaving the magic store. it should be faster
hmm, I we won't go through any of the "dawn of new day" things, I think. we spend nearly every time in temples. pirate's fortress is a temple as well
edit: god damn it!
we need 6 explosives after ST for Hovering into tower and SS over to kid, but we leave ST with 4 bombs and 1 bombchu
I'll try to find a way to skip one bomb
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we'll bomb hover into the tower, btw. that's thousand times faster than playing 2-3 song of double times ;)
I still doubt, that we would arrive the ranch at the right time
we definately have to play a song of double time before we go to the ranch. it has to be day, when we go over to the GB fountain to play zora pots game. so the first moment, when we can play a song of double time, is after zora pots game.
then it would be 6 pm. from there we would do FFWW to Ikana, get the twinrova bottle, deku palace and woodfall temple.
does this really take 8-9 game time hours, because we have to arrive at 3 am at the ranch
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here's the route in progress:
First Cycle:
Go through intro
Go to Night of Final Day
Get 200 rupees, Adult's Wallet and Magic
Get SoT and OoT
Second Cycle:
Buy Bomb Bag and 20 Bombchus
Leave to GB
Swordslide down to fence, 2 Bombchu Hovers, SS
SS-ESS combination over to Mikau
Get Zora Mask
SS and Activate Owl
Play Zora Pots Game twice (250r; 15b; 18c)
Go to Fountain via Air Swimming
Blow up rock with Bombchu
WW to Ikana (250r; 13b; 4c)
SS and Activate Owl
Get 5 Bombs from plant (250r; 18b; 4c)
Swamp via river
SS-ESS combination over to Komune
Get Bottle with Red Poition
Zora Link SS-ESS combination over to Octo
Kill Octo with Boomerang
Zora Sidehopping to Deku Palace and hurt yourself for Woodfall Death Warp (250r; 16b; 4c)
Beat Deku Palace with new strat (video will be uploaded tomorrow)
Get Sonata of Awaking and SoS (250r; 14b; 3c)
Get 4 Deku Sticks along the way to Woodfall Temple from pot and manipulating Dekus
Enter Woodfall Temple
Do first room the normal way (without Bomb Long Jump)
Clear gap with one Mega Flip and 2 Bombchu Hovers
Beat Lizarfos with 2 normal Sword Jumpslashes
Get Bow and kill yourself with Bomb (250r; 12b; 1c)
Warp to CT
Buy 20 Bombchus and 10 Bombs (140r; 20b; 20c)
Leave to GB
Superslide to Ranch
Ranch early
Beat Aliens
Get Bottle (140r; 18b; 16c)
Go to Pirate's Fortress
Clear gap with 2 Mega Flips
Get Hookshot via Bombchu Superslide through barrels and get first Zora Egg
Get Second Zora Egg from the entrance to the left via Bombchu Recoil Flip from Hookshot thing
Empty Bottles (140r; 15b; 13c)
Go to Pirate's Fortress again
Get right Zora Egg via Mega Flip OoB strategy
Get last Zora Egg via Recoil Flip (140r; 11b; 9c)
Empty Bottles again
Go to Pinnacle Rock twice and get rest of Zora Eggs
Learn New Wave Bossa Nova
Play Zora Pots Game twice (270r; 11b; 9c)
Get 5 Bombs From Pot
Enter GBT
Clear gap with Mega Flip
Ultimate GBT Sequence Break with Bomb Hovers in the beginning (270r; 10b; 6c)
Beat Gyorg
Warp to Woodfall
Get 1 Deku Stick from pot
Go to Gecko
Ultimate Woodfall Sequence Break (270r; 4b; 0c)
Warp to CT
Buy 20 Bombs and 20 Bombchus (130r; 20b; 20c)
Warp to Woodfall
Get Deku Stick from pot again
Fly to Fairy Fountain
WW to Snowhead (130r; 18b; 7c)
Climb Snowhead (130r; 15b; 5c)
Sidehop Block Skip
Get past Bridge Room with Bomb Long Jump
Scarecrow Song Skip
Get over to Wizrobe via 2 Bomb Recoil Flips (130r; 12b; 5c)
Beat Wizrobe with new stretagy, video will follow soon
Hookshot to Torch
2 Bomb Hovers and 2 Bombchu Hovers up to Snowballs
Blow them up via Bomb + Fire Arrow strategy (130r; 9b; 3c)
Mega Flip to Boss Door
Boss Key Skip (130r; 7b; 0c)
Beat Goth
Warp to CT
Buy 20 Bombchus and 10 Bombs (20r; 17b; 20c)
and ideas to improve it?
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ok, here's the new Woodfall Boss Key Skip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOV3ZRj0ffw
I've just compared it to Mukki's TAS and my way to beat Woodfall Temple is over a minute faster :)
I'll write the route now. it's basicly your route with more details ;)
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we'll need to test this, but I still doubt, that it is possible with enemys. a owl statue knocks you away after jumpslahing it and this could be one of the reasons, why this works ;)
I'm still working on that woodfall hookshot clip skip, it turns out to be much more complicated than I first thought, because the area is build of water, so everything under the room is water and because if a explosion hits gecko, a little cutscence starts and this one cancels ISG, but I think, I know how to do it now
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damn it, I have some things left to upload with mega flipping and especially I have to test that woodfall boss key skip with hookshot clipping, but now my TAS Input Plugin doesn't work anymore :/
when I load a game with TAS Input Plugin on, it doesn't register it and the message "there's no controller connected" appears on the game screen
can anyone help me?
edit: something in the input setting was wrong. I fixed it
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thsi trick only works, if you break the deku stick without standing on the ground, so it doesn't help for bosses ;)
I'll test my woodfall boss key skip theory now and if it works with 4 mega flips, I'll show you my route then.
I made a explosive run and I have a route, that works perfectly and seems very good. maybe it is improveable, let's see
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good to know
we should buy new bombchus and bombs after bow, because we have to warp to do CT to get to ranch and in our current route idea, we do ranch and get new chus then
the only time, when we warp to CT not to buy new bombchus is to go to the ranch and combinating this with going to the shop would skip one SoS
the problem is, that we may not have enough bombchus for following parts after this. I'll test it
oh, and how are we going to defeat all the bosses?
-bow fight: 2 normal jumpslashes or one deku stick jumpslash?
-odolwa: normal sword spins
-wizrobe: bow, sword or deku stick?
-goth: bow
-gyorg: zora link
-garo's master: deku stick or normal sword?
-twimmold: bow
-majora's mask: ?
we would be able to 3-4 deku sticks on the from deku palace to woodfall temple. one from the pot and 2-3 from manipulating the dekus to drop deku sticks.
we would be able to get another stick from the pot later in the game again.
altogether, we could get 5 ones. garo's master takes 4 to kill, so here should be the best place to use them. bow fight is nearly as fast with normal sword and wizrobe should be quickly beatable with bow
edit:
which pirate's battle are we going to do together?
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I'll get my hands on a rupee and bomb route now
little question:
we can get 99 rupees from ECT and 99 rupees from terminia on the first cycle without loosing any time.
the 2 rupees from NCT would be wasted time. the time it costs to load the new areas and to speak to the bank guy again takes much too much time for just 2 rupees. there are tons of ways to get 2 rupees somewhere over the run without loosing any time ;)
oh wait, I remember that problem, we need the wallet upgrade in order to be able to buy bomb bag and 20 bombchus in one trip, so the 2 rupees are important!
if I remeber right, petrie said once, that if we get another 99 rupees from terminia, the clock tower will have opened already until we arrive there, what would cost some time and there are better ways to get 99 rupees for sure.
ECT is definately out of the door. it's a really slow way to get rupees
I'm pretty sure, that slowking's idea to use the zora pots the game is by far the best idea, so the only real question left is, how many rupees we'll need
getting bomb drops costs time as well, so buying could is sometimes the better choice
argh, it's so complicated
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we'll have to plan a completely new rupee route now
you can only play the zora pots game at day, what is another problem, but you right, I didn't think about bombs. we'll need a lot more now :/
tomorrow my latin school test will be over (yeha (: ) and then I'll test a few things
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think about it:
we need only 320 rupees for the whole run!
we get 270 in the first cycle and the another 90 rupees on the way to the GBT fountain ;)
so we have all the rupees, we need ;)
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before you've played new wave bossa nova the turtle is simply at the place, where the real turtle is. if you play the song, the turtle simply awakes and the loading zone appears.
the sleeping turtle is simply a normal thing on the map without a loading zone
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I spend 2 hours in woodfall yet and there's nothing
there are a lot clipable ceiling, I was able to clip through with recoil flip + levitation, but clipping through them is only possible with levitation. mega flip doesn't work :(
boss key skip with hookshot should be also worth. clipping OoB in that room and doing 4 mega flips is still faster than beating gecko, opening the chest, going out of the room, flying over to the other side of the room, shooting a torch with a fire arrow and going through the last room, I think.
I doubt, that we will discover a useful trick next time, but let's see
what we could try, would be woodfall temple without sonata of awaking. you know, everything, that appears in a room or area after doing something is already somewhere on the map. that means, that every boss and a few other things are already somewhere on the map, although they didn't appear yet.
the woodfall temple for example is under the woodfall area, but there's one problem:
the area is a water area. the map is made off water, so there's water everywhere under the area, so no way to get over to temple. maybe a bottle dive to clip through the ground over the entrance of the temple. it's definately worth trying it
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stone tower boss key skip, snowhead boss key skip and great bay temple boss key skip are very unlikely to be improved now, because I had to search years for those OoBs and they are all very close to the boss room loading zone.
What we need now is a improved woodfall boss key skip. 24 explosives is a lot and this would force us to buy extra bombchus and get more ruppes, so this boss key skip isn't really worth.
the boss key skip method with clipping OoB with the mini boss I mentioned a while back could be useful now.
GBT boss key skip uses 4 bombchus, woodfall with mini boss clip probably 4-5, so we could this could perfectly work with our current route.
after we have beaten ST and snowhead, we buy 20 bombchus and go to pirate's fortress.
we would use 11 or 5 bombchus(depens on which method we use) to skip the last pirate battle, then we do GBT with 4 bombchus and finally woodfall part 2 with 5 bombchus.
let's think about, how many bombchus we need for our current route:
1. 20 bombchus for GB early, GB to Ikana Wron Warp, Deku Palace, wodfall Temple Part 1 and Ranch early
2. 20 bombchus Pirate's Fortress Part 1, Wrong Warp to Snowhead and beat Snowhead
3. 20 bombchus for Climbing ST and beating it
4. 20 bombchus for Pirate's Fortress Part 2, GBT and Woodfall
wow, we have to buy bombchus only 4 times, although we use the fairy fountain wrong warp twice and use 4 boss key skips O_O
mega flip kicks ass!
We have every possible wrong warp discovered (petrie tested with debug rom), the temple are pretty much broken to its limits, we can get to every area early and we have a mega flip, so we the any% category is nearly pushed to its limits now.
I'll try to find a better woodfall OoB tomorrow. That's the last thing left to discover
