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Maybe I'm completely stupid, but I can't see how this should save time for any%. You don't even go up to the top floor anymore because of the Skulltula-Recoil Trick used while climbing the vines.
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Ok, so in our current route we get 4 Sticks (buy 3 and one from the Baba) and 3 get used for the HF Slide, Mido Skip and B1 Skip, right? I also know how to skip losing the Stick for the HF Slide, I think. It's hard to explain how exactly it works. I hope I can test it by.Thursday, but I'm so convinced, that you can actually start planning a route, that only gets 2 Sticks ;)
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You forgot to include the first jumpslash in Zora's River, which should at least save half a second or a bit more. Did anyone test yet, whether the B1 Skip works the way we are planning using one stick? Just to make sure everything really works the way we are assuming.
Other than that, how exactly do we plan on killing Gohma using ISG? Of course, I know it's possible, but compared to crouch stabbing we should lose a bit more time there as well due to having to lure Gohma a bit more after clipping through the wall.
We can definitely agree that skipping the Sword is faster, though. I'm also pretty sure, that I know a way to skip Mido without losing one of our precious Deku Sticks. I haven't thought about the actual route much yet, but I think we only need 2 sticks then, right? Dunno how much time this will save in the end, depends on how well my idea is going to work out. I barely have any time at the moment, I'll try to upload a video as soon as possible. Give me 2 days ;)
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CosmoZSR wrote:
Mashing B (alternating frames) in water is the fastest method right? I saw an old vid that claimed timing is more optimal, but looking in mupen/mhs it seems like mashing is the fastest.
Timing is way faster. It's hard to explain how exactly the timing works, but it is mash B for 9 frames, no B for 9 frames. Doing that makes you keep top speed for 9 extra frames each time.
About Sword: Bloob and I were very certain that skipping the sword is slower. The TAS run simply uses it way too often for little timesavers. Just look at the cucco collevtion for example. You are welcome to time it, though. This is so close, that pure speculations and estimations won't help us at all, though. We need real test TASes, that not nescassarily need to be 100% optimized ;)
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GlitchesAndStuff wrote:
- We still need to do the FFWW from woodfall to snowhead to lullaby skip
If we have to go to Goron Village anyway, I guess it is faster to go to Snowhead Temple from there. Lullaby Skip doesn't need the WW via one of the Fountains in a TAS, because you can simply HISS up. Going to Romani Ranch could also be an option, but I think the one I mentioned first should be faster.
GlitchesAndStuff wrote:
I was also considering hookshot and PF skip. With song of time storage we could do 3 trips of pinnacle rock (1 trip for 2 eggs, another trip for 2 eggs, final trip for 3 eggs). Depending on when we want to do eggs in the route, hookshot skip could be a thing because it's only used in dungeons now and each one of those can be replaced with hovers or other strats. Again, it's something that would need to be timed.
I think routing this is going to be pretty fun. I'll post more stuff as the route ideas develop I guess
This sounds pretty slow. Hookshot still saves quite a bit of time inside of Snowhead Temple (Weirdshot to the Fairy Chest etc.) and Stone Tower Temple (Weirdshots in the Mirror and Updraft Rooms). Other than that, Pinnacle Rock doesn't even sound really that much faster than Pirate's Fortress for a TAS. PF took 4:45 and Pinnacle Rock 2:20. Doing Pinnacle Rock twice would be slightly faster than PF, but if you add in the time it takes to recreate the eggs in Pinnacle and the time Hookshot saves, doing PF should be way faster.
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Pheenoh wrote:
New glitch found by Indextic to warp to owl statues that haven't been triggered:
Link to video
I almost shit my pants while watching this :O
Sucks, that you need to visit Goron Village (--> Stone Tower) and Romani Ranch (--> Snowhead) for 2 of the most useful warps. Both places are not even close to be visited in the old route, but let's see how well we can integrate this trick. It has a shitload of potential for sure. And maybe this even turns out to be damn huge. Let's hope it. It is by far the closest we got to real Wrong Warps in Majora's Mask.
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Bloob has a lot to do at the moment and I'm always lazy at this time of the year. Easy like that. However, you can still expect to see a submission before 2014 ;)
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Personman wrote:
I'm sure there's a good reason, but can someone explain to me why during the pause at 9:45 they press Z twice, then equip deku nuts and stick, then press Z, then equip shield, instead of R once, equip shield, R once, equip deku nuts and stick? Seems like two rotations would be faster than three.
You should watch carefully again. We rotate only twice.
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Turns out we used to time the run the wrong way. Instead of timing from starting the game to the final hit on ganon, you have to time from file select to the final blow. Because of that the real time is 16:57.69.
SUB 17!!!!!
Mitjitsu wrote:
MrGrunz wrote:
It doesn't make the game lag ;)
Another question I have is why do you backwalk after doing the blue warp trick, instead of side hopping with the camera angle facing the door?
Getting that reversed camera angle takes 15 frames in which you can't really move. As we can do an instant backwalk there like in Majora's Mask (we can do that everywhere now anyway) backwalking is by far the fastest thing you can do here ;)
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Mitjitsu wrote:
It doesn't matter what the question is, as people will change it to suit their agenda.
Because this is more true than anyone wants to admit, I think Warp's idea is really good:
Warp wrote:
How about simply giving up and just changing the questions to what people want to answer, not what you want them to be? Something like:
Should this be published?
* Yes, and I liked it.
* Yes, although I didn't like it much.
* No, there were problems with it.
Don't focus on the question, but the answers. Yes, Meh, No always have the mentioned probably, no matter what the question above them is. We should still try to keep the number of possible answers rather low, though (if we really do this), because it would get way too confusing then. 3-5 are probably good numbers.
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jlun2 wrote:
andypanther wrote:
Besides, if a Super Metroid RBO is publishable, why not this?
For this run, it's more like SM64's case and the 16 star submission that was rejected.
There is one important difference, though. Instead of banning a certain type of glitch, this run simply sets the goal: "Beat the game without fighting Ganon". While this still sounds like a completely random goal, it is immediately clear what the run is about. Only one single fact changed compared to any% and you suddenly get a totally different run. I think there are similar runs published like one Pokémon blue\red run, which has some sort of restricition, that is rather arbitrary as well. I will try to find that run Im speaking of, but maybe I'm simply mixing some things up.
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jlun2 wrote:
thatguy wrote:
Since I feel this will be rejected, I recommend it wholeheartedly for gruefood delight.
The early poll results suggest that some people are voting "no" because they don't think this movie should be published. "Did you find this movie entertaining?" doesn't mean "Should this movie be published?", it means "Did you find this movie entertaining?"
I voted "meh" since it didn't really offered anything new and surprising, compared to the current TAS.
You are free to vote whatever you want, but stating that there is nothing new and suprising compared to the current TASes is not true. The Dodongo's Cavern strategy was never used in any speedrun before (even on console) and neither has any type of those Wrong Warps ever been shown in any kind of TAS published on this site. Same thing applies to the Eyeball Frog early glitch.
The goal is a bit arbitrary, of course. This category is the result of the OoT community defining new goals over and over again within the last time, simply to have something new to playaround and compete with. The result is definitely entertaining to see, but Nahoc surely has a point by comparing this run to his rejected 16 Star SM64 run.
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Mitjitsu wrote:
I don't see what this offers over the current run. This used to be the fastest route before before the Deku Tree warp was found IIRC.
Nah, not at all. Before the Deku Tree WW we were still using FW on B to warp to the credits via Dodongo's Cavern, which also meant we used RBA and skipped the Kokiri Sword. This is completely different than what we used to do back then.
The Eyeball Frog WW was discovered after Ganondoor if I remember correctly and Eyeball Frog early was also not known.
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Sam did an awesome "Ganonless" TAS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMlk1HWPlKI
Btw, for everyone waiting for the new any%: Sorry for the massive delay, but Ganon didn't turn out to be a trivial task like it used to be. We hope to get it done soon, but because I have no time at all until next week, we decided to stop working on the run until then.
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It is completely arbitrary to label a movie with any%, that is not the fastest movie of the game. There is only one logical definition for any% and that is beating the game as fast as possible. This being said, I totally agree with what most people wrote in here:
The fastest movie always has to get the label any% and all other movies published of the same game, need an extra label, that easily describes the difference between the 2 movies.
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Synching is not the main problem. It makes it more annoying, because you always have to play the movie back from a certain point to see what time you really got. This takes some time, of course. But the main problem is, that the lag of the cutscene can be manipulated by random inputs right before the cutscene starts. The differences are huge. The difference between the fastest and slowest possible manipulation are up to 300 frames (5 seconds). The fastest we got yet, is a manipulation that is 18 frames slower than the one I had in my old run. Seems like I was extremely lucky back then.
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The castle collapse cutscene completely destroyed our entire motivation. We simply can't tie the manipulation of my old run and combined with the fact, that this is the most boring and annoying shit ever to TAS (makes cuccos feel like the most enjoyable thing you've ever done) we didn't really work much on the run for the last like 1,5 months......I just started doing attempts again, so pray that the game will be nice to us today.....
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There are no real problems, Bloob and I simply only TAS when we really feel like doing so. We did all new tricks already and while they were indeed pretty complex to do, I think we did a really good job and optimizing them to the max. That should also give you enough information to know how far we are into the run :P
But yes, going for total optimization is indeed quite hard, there are many places where you can't even know whether something is 100% optimal or not.
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For me this is a phenomenon that I expected to occur at some point for quite a while already. Most TAS-worthy old games have been TASed to a very high level now. Improving them has become very hard so it takes either very long to create a new and better run of a game that is published on this website or it is even almost impossible to improve it even further to the game getting close to its limits and no new tricks being discovered (take SM64 for example).
When TASing really started to get "big" there was a huge pool of game, that hadn't been worked on yet simply because games have been produced since the 80s and TASing started at least 20 years after that. This pool has become way smaller yet. Of course there are still many many new games created every year, but there are 2 main problems preventing new runs being made for them:
1) The necessary emulalators are not available or have been not good enough until today (TASing-wise)
2) Most games published on newer consoles are very long and pretty complex to TAS. This makes creating a decent run of them very hard and time consuming. I can't see a TAS of Wind Waker, that would have a length of 4 hours and includes much complicated stuff, being done by anyone. It would take a group of at least 3-4 dedicated players to pull this off and even then you would probably need more than a year to finish the project.
