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TrenchAce wrote:
"Here we start setting up the new Sequence Break in Ganon's Tower. Shooting down the ladder in the Slingshot Room sets a certain flag. By doing the Wrong Warp later on this flag is transfered over to Ganon's Castle, where it opens the very last door of the Castle Escape."
How you people figure this shit out is beyond me.
like I wrote in the "thanks list", sockfolder, r0bd0g and mzxrules simply have fucked up minds, it seems.
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I simply have to quote myself:
MrGrunz wrote:
There are many gaming channels like Machinima, which have billions of views and thus gather thousands if not millions of dollars (yes, all those big gaming channels are partners), so I can't see how any TAS uploaded to youtube could make the gaming industry suddenly change their whole attitude towards youtube. Especially considering that even the most famous TASes usually don't even get close to reaching one million views (of course we've seen a few exceptions).
Making money out of TASing isn't going to change their whole attitude, because we would only gather a fraction of what other huge gaming channels (machinima and all the "Let's Play-Channels") have been gathering for years already.
If they really forbid making money out of gaming videos, we wouldn't have had an influence on that.
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jlun2 wrote:
MrGrunz wrote:
I will never understand why people regard "making cash off TASing" as an almost insane and totally absurd idea.
No, I have no problem of the authors of the run making money off TASing. I do have a problem on why noone else can except sonicpacker. What did he do that made him be allowed to have TASVideos link to his channel instead of the official one?
Hmm, I see what you mean. Making exceptions just because this TAS is the "uber-TAS" seems a bit wrong, because we should treat all submissions and submitters the same. The better solution would still be to always link to the official youtube channel and if the author demands it to his channel as well (on the publication page).
Yet I'd still prefer it, if the author could decide whether the video gets published on the official channel or not. If he wants it to only be viewable on his channel, he should simply have to link to the official channel as well as to tasvideos.org on his own youtube encode.
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There are many gaming channels like Machinima, which have billions of views and thus gather thousands if not millions of dollars (yes, all those big gaming channels are partners), so I can't see how any TAS uploaded to youtube could make the gaming industry suddenly change their whole attitude towards youtube. Especially considering that even the most famous TASes usually don't even get close to reaching one million views (of course we've seen a few exceptions).
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MrGrunz wrote:
jlun2 wrote:
Why take it down? So he can make cash off TASing?
I will never understand why people regard "making cash off TASing" as an almost insane and totally absurd idea.
You work very very very hard on a TAS in order to create something special and entertaining for other people and usually also for yourself. In the first place people create a TAS for the sake of the TAS and not to submit it to tasvideos.org. In most cases people will submit their runs any way, because it's kind of an honor to have your work published here. But in the end it is up to the TASer himself whether he submits his run, so this website should be happy about every new submission. I'm not doing any TASes because I love tasvideos, but because I love TASing, just something to keep in mind.
Over the last year many TASers have managed to become partners on youtube (I haven't done so myself yet, so don't tell me I'm a money-grubbing asshole). This makes it easy to receive a bit of money as a reward for all the hours you invested just to entertain other people. Those people can still watch those runs for free, so the viewer doesn't get any disadvantages through this, while the creater of the run gets a little bonus. So all in all this new situation is clearly better than what we had in the past.
Now tasvideos forces every creater of a new submission to not upload his run to his own youtube channel:
A second streaming link to the same content also on YouTube is not allowed
This means the available bonus of receiving a bit of pocket money for my work is kind of gone once I submit my run to this website. A TASer has now to decide between his extra pocket money and his run being published here. But why not allow the TASer to get both? The disadvantage tasvideos has by not publishing the run on the official youtube channel is negligible, because every TASer usually links to tasvideos on their youtube uploads any way.
Other than that the official channel only has 2700 subscribers. If I now upload a run done by me to my own channel, way more people will view the submission and in the end way more people will end up here on tasvideos. It's kind of a WIN WIN situation. So why forbid people to upload their TASes on their own channels? Like I said before this is a big disadvantage for the TASer and in many cases even for this website.
jlun2 wrote:
sonicpacker wrote:
You did. And the other encode streamed through here gives people that option.
Why isn't there 2 youtube links instead? Why does the youtube link have to be your channel? Is it really a problem not linking to the TASVideos channel? What's the point of it if its not going to be used?
The goal of the official tasvideos channel is to bring people from the official channel to tasvideos.org (simply to bring more traffic to this website). The channel is supposed to do so simply by linking to this website, so what's the big disadvantage of linking to the tasvideos.org from a different youtube channel, that is not the offical tasvideos channel? The result is the same.
And linking from my own youtube upload to the upload on the official channel would be pointless as well, because that's just making the path for the viewer to finally end up here just harder. Only thing that would make sense would be people linking to the official channel itself (not to the same run on the official channel, but to the channel itself), so the viewer of my upload directly gets access to a huge amount of different TASes.
Couldn't we just agree, that every youtube upload from the creaters of each run has to link to this website and also the official youtube channel? The website would benefit way more from that than it does from forcing people not to upload their own runs.
EDIT:
Did I misunderstood something? Is it really forbidden for an author to create his own youtube encode? If it's not then everythings fine.
But I'd still say that the author should have the full control of his run, so if he doesn't want it to be uploaded on the official channel the run shouldn't be uploaded there, no matter what the reasons for this are, mainly because it's not a duty to submit a run here in the first place.
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jlun2 wrote:
Why take it down? So he can make cash off TASing?
I will never understand why people regard "making cash off TASing" as an almost insane and totally absurd idea.
You work very very very hard on a TAS in order to create something special and entertaining for other people and usually also for yourself. In the first place people create a TAS for the sake of the TAS and not to submit it to tasvideos.org. In most cases people will submit their runs any way, because it's kind of an honor to have your work published here. But in the end it is up to the TASer himself whether he submits his run, so this website should be happy about every new submission. I'm not doing any TASes because I love tasvideos, but because I love TASing, just something to keep in mind.
Over the last year many TASers have managed to become partners on youtube (I haven't done so myself yet, so don't tell me I'm a money-grubbing asshole). This makes it easy to receive a bit of money as a reward for all the hours you invested just to entertain other people. Those people can still watch those runs for free, so the viewer doesn't get any disadvantages through this, while the creater of the run gets a little bonus. So all in all this new situation is clearly better than what we had in the past.
Now tasvideos forces every creater of a new submission to not upload his run to his own youtube channel:
A second streaming link to the same content also on YouTube is not allowed
This means the available bonus of receiving a bit of pocket money for my work is kind of gone once I submit my run to this website. A TASer has now to decide between his extra pocket money and his run being published here. But why not allow the TASer to get both? The disadvantage tasvideos has by not publishing the run on the official youtube channel is negligible, because every TASer usually links to tasvideos on their youtube uploads any way.
Other than that the official channel only has 2700 subscribers. If I now upload a run done by me to my own channel, way more people will view the submission and in the end way more people will end up here on tasvideos. It's kind of a WIN WIN situation. So why forbid people to upload their TASes on their own channels? Like I said before this is a big disadvantage for the TASer and in many cases even for this website.
jlun2 wrote:
sonicpacker wrote:
You did. And the other encode streamed through here gives people that option.
Why isn't there 2 youtube links instead? Why does the youtube link have to be your channel? Is it really a problem not linking to the TASVideos channel? What's the point of it if its not going to be used?
The goal of the official tasvideos channel is to bring people from the official channel to tasvideos.org (simply to bring more traffic to this website). The channel is supposed to do so simply by linking to this website, so what's the big disadvantage of linking to the tasvideos.org from a different youtube channel, that is not the offical tasvideos channel? The result is the same.
And linking from my own youtube upload to the upload on the official channel would be pointless as well, because that's just making the path for the viewer to finally end up here just harder. Only thing that would make sense would be people linking to the official channel itself (not to the same run on the official channel, but to the channel itself), so the viewer of my upload directly gets access to a huge amount of different TASes.
Couldn't we just agree, that every youtube upload from the creaters of each run has to link to this website and also the official youtube channel? The website would benefit way more from that than it does from forcing people not to upload their own runs.
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MARIO CHIP 1 wrote:
What's the point in optimizing for lag that isn't accurately emulated anyway?
Generally avoiding things that cause substantial lag is good and all but counting frames just seems pointless at the current level of timing accuracy.
When I TAS I usually aim for maximum speed, so if I can save 1 frame by avoiding lag, I want to save that frame. I've never really cared, whether a TAS looks exactly the same on a console, as long as everything is in theory possible on a console.
This version doesn't have a reset ability, does it? (I've just tested it and it didn't work).
Would have been extremly helpful for future OoT/MM runs, because there's a lot of lag going on there, but without the reset feature it is quite useless. I still don't get, why there are dozen of Mupen versions with useful updates out there, but usually each version only has one of those new features, but not any of the other ones.
Is there not anyone out there who could simply put all those stuff together?
Sry, if some people regard posts like this as spam in a thread like the sm64 thread, it is just, that the people, that could possibly tell me anything about this usually pay attention to this thread.
Would you mind explaining, how you implemented this to mupen? This seems like a really useful script.
I've never worked with such scripts, so sorry if it is actually pretty obvious how to get access to this.
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Warepire wrote:
Ilari wrote:
SoulCal wrote:
Console Verified.
Watching that video, the duration on real console appears to be about 1:21:21 (~39.5 seconds more than movie file length).
Of course, there are sources of inaccuracy in that (video production might have altered the timings a bit).
Timing accuracy in mupen64 is a joke. It does not surprise me that the movie completes in a different time when run on console.
At least it synchs. The fact, that Mupen is a piece of shit and that a lot of movies (*cough* Majora's Mask *cough*) will never be synched on a real console is something we simply have to accept.
Damn awesome run, guys. Although I followed the SM64 community for the last 4 years, there were still many suprises for me left in there, that I didn't expect at all.
I have to admit I was kind of sceptical, when I heard about your quick progress within the last months, because usually it took a good amount of weeks in the past to do a project like the 0 star run and then out of a sudden you do the 120 Star TAS, which I really never expected to happen, in 3-4 months. Fortunately, my darkest expectations didn't come true and you delivered us a master piece.
I also can't agree with anyone who says, BLJs are boring. Speed is entertainment, at least to me. And I don't know any game in which such high speeds are reached while it is still possible to control the character so smoothly.
Now everything left to do is giving us a nice commentary, just like Cosmo's runs have. They are usually quite awesome to listen to while watching the run. As there's quite a big story behind this run, I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with filling those 80 minutes with a lot interesting informations ;)
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This is by FAR the most impressive run I have ever seen. All I love about glitch hunting and TASing in general is to see all the things you can do with the game just by using proper inputs. It's already awesome to see people completely break games apart and beat them within a ridiculous fast time.
This on the other hand brings this whole concept to a new level. Kudos, bortreb! You are a mad genius ;)
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I agree, we really should have kept that award. Especially because after 10 years (no idea exactly how long we've been doing this) it seems like most new TASes are just a repetition of what we've seen already. Therefore it is definitely not easy to come up with new and interesting ways, that raise the entertainment value, for a TAS of most kind of games.
If someone is really creative enough to create something completely new, we've never seen before, he should really get his chance to earn an award for this.
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Slowking wrote:
@Pheenoh
I hate to encourage spider-waffle, but getting sword or deku stick is not that far apart. Grunz determined after some timing that sword is slightly faster, but not by much, as you can:
- buy one deku stick
- go down ZR, get bottle, etc.
- after getting back to Kokiri buy another stick along with the shield
- mido skip via megaflip off a skulltulla you summon from the magic bean hole
- use deku stick ISG to kill the Dekubabas and get 3 more deku sticks (remember default damage of ISG is always 1 Kokiri sword swipe, thus you can kill them with stick ISG)
What it mostly came down to in the end is that stick text is way slower in the shop than outside. I think that shows how close that was.
Killing the Deku Babas with the Deku Stick doesn't really work. You have to jumpslash to get up to the ground again after leaving the water at the Mido Skip. Therefore crouch stab is not at default damage anymore.
But couldn't we simply beat the rest of the game (after buying Shield and Stick right before Deku Tree) with one Deku Stick? You can kill Gohma and Ganon using ISG. You can Mega Flip instead of jumpslashing in Deku Tree to skip B1. We get Slingshot now anyway, so no need to get Deku Nuts.
Of course, you can't use a lot of timesavers here and there, so unfortunately, it should be damn close.
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Using a normal Superslide (blocking damage while grabbing an object) you can keep sliding during a cutscence. ISG is simply nescessary to hit the owl while sliding and thus start the cutscene while sliding.
As every situation in the game at which you don't have control over link wastes time it is best to use this little trick to do something useful during this cutscene.
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he actually implied it, if you read it carefully once again. He said, that the stick is "initially" 30 seconds quicker and then keeps losing time. In fact, he was right about this.
It's wrong to instantly attack spider-waffle, rog. Not only because what he said was correct, but also if his timing was totally wrong, you should have explained him why instead. Your way to answer him just causes a good old flame war and nothing else ;)
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Spider-Waffle is actually right here. The stick route arrives indeed exactly 30 seconds faster at the lost woods than the sword route. The timing is based on TASing both routes. You can add another 90 frames because of the fact, that you've already read the deku stick text, that appears when you collect a stick for the first time.
Slowi and I discussed this a while ago and weren't really sure, which route is faster.
As you need the first stick to skip the owl in front of kakariko, you have to buy a 2nd stick the same time you buy the shield. There's a problem, though. AS you lose that stick at the mido skip, you can't kill any babas to obtain more deku sticks.
You could also drop bugs at the magic bean spot to make a gold skulltula appear and use it for the mido skip. As the skulltula takes quite a long time to appear (over 10 seconds), we should focus on finding a quick way to gather enough rupees to buy 2 sticks.
Altogether, this means we need at least 60 rupees. Here are some potential sources:
- 5 rupees on the way from the shop to the lost woods (can be obtained without the loss of any frames)
- 5 rupees on the platforms after leaving the shop: costs around 2 seconds, because you couldn't use the quick ledge grab trick anymore
- 2 rupees in the grass on the way to the lost woods: shouldn't cost too much time combined with the aforementioned blue rupee
- 15 rupees can be collected in the river while losing only a few frames
- 2 more rupees could be obtained there by dropping half a second
- There's a red rupee in the river. It hasn't been timed yet how much time it costs to grab it. I guess 4-5 seconds is a good estimation.
- 20 rupees in the grotto in kakariko: costs around 8-9 seconds
- 3 rupees from the stone we pick up to collect bugs: shouldn't cost too much time, probably around 21-27 frames
- 5 rupees in front of the shop (could be obtained on the way to the lost woods as well, would cost a lot of time, though)
- 5 rupees inside of the shop: costs 3 seconds and should be avoided if possible. Swordless messed up when he collected that blue rupee, because it is clearly slower than slashing 2 more bushes
I'm not 100% sure which combination is the best. It's probably best to collect those rupees:
- 5 rupees on the platforms after leaving the job
- 5 rupees behind the house on the way to the woods
- 17 rupees + the red rupee in the river
- 3 rupees from the stone in kakariko
- 5 rupees on the platforms on the way to the shop
- 5 rupees in the shop
The collection of the rupees should cost around 14 seconds. Buying a 2nd stick costs another second. As the stick arrives 31 seconds quicker at the woods, there are 17 seconds remaining.
The question is, how much time we lose in zora's river due not having the sword and therefore being not able to do any slides. We could also lose some time elsewhere due to not being able to jumpslash or whatever.
I'm also not sure whether it is possible to kill deku babas using deku sticks. I was once told, that crouch stab/ISG could kill them if you haven't used the sword/stick before hand. As the crouch stab stores the power of your last attack, it behaves like a normal sword if you haven't used any attacks in an area yet. I'm not sure if this attack can really kill any enemies, though.
This would only help for the deku tree are any way, because we have to jumpslash at the mido skip.
Thinking about it carefully again, the limit on sticks should make this a bit slower than the sword route. We couldn't slash cuccos, we couldn't slide in zora's river, we would have to use ISG against most enemies instead of crouch stabbing, we couldn't jumpslash in the deku tree etc, but it is still worth keeping in my mind for the future.
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@moozooh
I don't feel the need to protect OoT of any negative opinions. People can vote each run the way they feel like, but in this particular case it is rather obvious, that most votes are not based on quality of the movie, but all the trouble surrounding it. The rating system should not be abused for some kind of protest, which clearly happened here. That's why I felt the need to post in this thread.
@Cardboard
When did I ever say, that I want everybody to give 10/10 votes? I've never done that.
You say you watched the run, because it could have in theory "blown your socks away". That's all ok and I get your point. But in your case it simply seems to be different. You clearly stated earlier on, how much you hated every single OoT TAS, so why are you still watching them and even bother judging them with extrem low ratings? It somehow confuses me. Of course it is all up to you, but maybe you should rethink this attitude, because the site wouldn't work very well, if everybody did the same for all kind of games, because then we'd have many many 0 votes on many movies.
Just to clarify it: I'm not saying, that everybody who could possibly not like a movie should stay away from watching/rating it. Instead I refer to all people, that clearly hate certain kind of movies.
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rog wrote:
Cardboard wrote:
I hope I'm entitled to stating my opinion.
Of course you are. Though i have to ask, why do you watch and rate movies you have zero interest in?
Yeah, that's also what I don't get. When there's a run submitted of a game that I'm not even a bit interested in I simply ignore it, because I'm capable of understanding, that I'm definitely not the right person to judge it.
As I've never played Chrono Trigger, I couldn't stand the TAS of the year 2009, the Chrono Trigger any% run. There's nothing about it, that seems entertaining to me, but I still kept myself away from voting, because I understand, that it must be an amazing movie to all the fans of the game. Same thing applies to almost all RPGs published on this website.
Why don't you simply do the same, Cardboard?
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Enterim wrote:
I'd give this a 0.1 in entertainment; watching this TAS reminded me of several unpleasant childhood memories. I found this situation to be highly unentertaining. This applies to the run itself, as there are no sections in it that do not remind me of those unpleasant childhood memories.
enterim, please leave the trolling out of this place. I'd rather discuss this topic factually, because I don't want this to end in a massiv flame war again.
And as contributions like this probably also influenced cardboard and saethori to vote the way they eventually did, those posts certainly won't help making them realize how childish their behavior actually is.
The technical rating of a TAS should reflect a number of technical qualities about the run itself and how it has been made. It's important to understand that there is no one single feature which determines the technical quality, but that it's the sum of many different aspects. A common misconception is to think that "technical quality" is a synonym for "frame perfection" (in other words, how optimal the run is). This is not so. Frame perfection is part of what constitutes the technical quality of a run, but only a part.
I just wanted to clarify since most people have a misconception here. One does not have to "prove" a run is improvable to warrant a sub 10 tech rating. This is not a measure of how frame perfect a movie is (if one is using the tech rating optimally).
Note: I'm not saying someone's rating is or isn't spite or legitimate, but I wanted to clarify a false assumption. Also, calling someone out on a rating, that sounds petty to me.
Yeah, I know that. The run isn't even frame perfect enough to warrant a 10 just by this factor. But alltogether a 6.1 is simply too low for a high quality 2 hour run of a 3D game.
The 0.1 entertainment rating is way more extrem, though. Even the worst movies on this website have an entertainment rating by 3-4. By giving the run a 0, saethori abused his rating ability, which is not acceptable. That's why Swordless called him out.
This discussion is pointless, though. Saethori can vote whatever he wants and always claim to have been objective.
