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This game *is* a nightmare to optimise; mainly because the collision detection boxes are unusually large. I shall persist however.
I have done about half of the 1st stage and i hope to post a WIP of the 1st stage very soon.
Inzult, as far as your TAS goes it is very optimal thus far as i have only been able to gain frames at my current position. I'm guessing that you began with the intention of a TAS but decided to make it only a test run.
The only area of improvement i think so far is on the first archer on the roof. I was able to get past him without stopping to destroy his arrows.
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It'll be the need of an expansion pack to play Majora's Mask that causes more desyncs. The game obviously asks more of the N64 and the Mupen just can't cut it.
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That's a good point. One of the great things about about this forum is that most posters are literate.
This is a forum for intelligent discussion of games. Please don't pollute it with text message slang.
EDIT -- I am talking about TASvideos discussion boards in a wide sense not the off-topic forum etc.
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I just realised what it was. FCEU only counts frames as frames in the movie not the game. Since what i was testing in the first part of the game i wasn't recording so if i pressed period the frame count would not come up.
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My FCEU has a strange problem at the moment.
My input is comma but my frame counter isn't period. I have pushed all around my keyboard (with shift and without) but can't find it. Anyone got any ideas? I'm using FCEU 15.
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Although 10-20 minutes may sound like good time for making a TAS it is very different when taking into account that he's working with the Mupen64. If you add into the equation the amount of desyncs and trying to optimise in 3 dimensions this adds up to an astronomical amount of time.
I had a go at TASing this game, however my sh*t-ass ROM couldn't even get me into Clock Town. I've played the game a few times but i have never speedran it and so i'm may not be proficient enough to do this i think. In short i know the game well but possibly not enough to do it justice and i think that this idea will be the same throughout the site.
EDIT -- I'm far too tempted to have another go. After all i have rerecords, frame perfection, slowdown, an optimal route already planned. All somone needs to do is do it. I'll have a go and post a WIP from the beginning to entering Clock Town, if it is bad then i'll leave it, however, if it is good then i'll go on and finish it.
I think we're all agreed that we really want to see a run of this game.
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adelikat wrote:
What does rejecting this run say to the concept of TAS? "complete a game as fast as possible at all costs but if you do it TOO fast then it is boring and will be rejected
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UPDATE -- Just finished the first remote in Smellraiser, with a time of 6:30.
I will post a new WIP as soon as i get the fifth remote and have gotten into the next area.
The remote i have just done is looking pretty impressive. Also, a note on my WIPs;
-- I don't change joystick sensitivity because this game is modeled on the PSone engine which doesn't have that privilege, so it doesn't make a difference.
-- The camera is extremely erratic in this game. It turns of its own accord and takes the controls with it making Gex shakey. This doesn't waste time it just looks bad. The reason i didn't change it is it sometimes helps and changing it back and forward would waste more time than it would save.
-- In the level i have just done i use a lot of shortcuts. The majority of shortcuts in this game are in the levels themselves. Those familiar with the level design in Smellraiser should notice how much i skip out.
-- The only timesaving technique i have found so far is that if Gex karate kicks into a wall he will be able to automatically perform a double jump. Very useful in Smellraiser. Not useful in 'Out of Toon' (why it is never used).
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That was helpful. From this i saw that you can run through most enemies without dying. I'll give this a shot.
I'll do the same two levels, i think that - 4:00mins (hopefully comfortably under) will be pretty good going.
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I refreshed my memory this morning by playing through the game in real time. I'm going to start TASing it. This is how it's going to be done:
- Normal difficulty (any harder and the game would drag out (see my Spider-Man submission for a prime example)).
- Make good use of Orin and Cutrus as a team.
- The castle order will be Spain, Egypt, Italy, India, Africa, Germany.
Then Ruth.
- Also, hope to make good use of the ice balls to fight the bosses.
This game never struck me as particularly glitchy. I have never found/heard of a good one. Anyone?
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Opposing trainer Pokémon attacks are determined when the battle menu appears. It can be luck-manipulated before then, when it says “Trainer sent out ...”. Wild Pokémon attacks are determined when you select the attack.
Note that in GSC, some Pokémon will only use set moves against you, especially if your Pokémon is weak to the attack.
A small extract from the FAQ that got me thinking.
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I'm thinking this run can be improved, Primo's that is.
I reckon there could be a big time saver (a minute or so maybe...) in manipulating the enemy's moves
so that it always uses the move with the shortest name, this could usually save several frames per battle over Primo's run.
This sounds extremely tedious to TAS however....
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Just out of interest i looked at BoMF's profile under 'list all posts'.
I looked at his most recent compared to his oldest.
A chain of declining relevance is very obvious.
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I think N64 TASes will become a big part of the site once it properly takes off. N64 is the most modern of all consoles on the site and in modern times there have been more gamers.
With N64 TASes more people will find a game that they are familiar with.
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As far as entertainment goes i couldn't make much of it. I have never played this game before and so whatever happened went straight over my head.
However, i think that this movie has enough right to be on the site. Effectively what he does is just a much faster version of the short LoZ 3 run and the short LoZ 2 run.
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Even in my head this question sounds kind of stupid...but it's worth a shot.
Is there any way to use the link function in the VBA. Perhaps even linking it to another VBA emulator? Namely for the GBC, as if i could get this function to work i could greatly improve Primo's pokemon run.
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I have also thought about a medallion run and for the same reasons i never did it. However, from the sounds of things there is an interest out there for a run of this nature.
Most should vote for the medallion run with trials rather than a run with medallions skipping the trials.
Doing the medallions and skipping the trials would be very inconsistent play; moving from a glitchless run to a glitched one near the end.
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I can't think how a game that can't be completed can make a very good game never mind TAS.
However, maybe you're reading into it wrong. It might just be really glitchy, therfore there is great promise for a TAS as many parts could be skipable .
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I reckon that this run could take quite a while. The fastest way to get 100 gold skultulas would be to use the glitch outside hyrule castle but that would be dull.
Perhaps a glitchless run should come before the 100% run. By that i mean all dungeons played.
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........you're right. I've played through this game many times and i never thought to press start to skip all that.
As far as the route goes it is optimal. As far as the boss battles go they are optimal (for nightmare difficulty). That mistake in frame 22120 has got me thinking if there are more in there, all similar situations have good reasons behind them.
The boss battles are what started my doubts before submitting and even with everything corrected i don't think it would go much to redeem it.
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Twisted Eye wrote:
You should've put that in your submissions text
I knew i forgot something. The enemies act like walls, so you can't pass directly through them. However, you can pass through them diagonally without taking damage, i did this a lot in this run.
I opted for Nightmare mode basically because i felt that it would show a game beaten with ease on its highest difficulty level and in doing so would raise the entertainment value.
I also agree with your opinion on the bosses and the length of these battles made me consider dropping the project due to the fact that it may not entertain. I decided that there was enough substance in the levels themselves to hold the audience. The majority of rerecords took place in the boss battles as i went for frame perfection to get these battles to pass more quickly (but that is expected anyway).
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The reason that 20Hz is so unlikely is due to human fatigue. If anyone could possibly do it over one second they certainly couldn't maintain it.
Anyone who has ever survived the MGS torture scene (without turbo-fire of course) knows what i mean. It is extremely painful; for the first couple of rounds you can keep your health relatively full, however, for the last one you can visibly watch your healthbar sink away and if you do make it it is by a whisker.
I only ever did it by forming a fist and battering the control-pad through my desk.
However, i don't reckon that even this torture scene will require anything above 10Hz (does anyone know? someone could TAS it to find out).
I think anything above 10Hz sustained is a lot to ask of any human being. However, there will be people who can do it (Bisqwit makes reference to this in the Turbo use section of the FAQ), and how DO these people do it? Do they (like me) form a fist and batter away? Or can such feats be accomplished by the conventional fingers and thumbs?
