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feos wrote:
Right, and then I once again don't see the benefit of even having 512kb.mkv alongside 512kb.mp4.
I don't see necessarily the benefit either, but if some encoders want to do both, that is their prerogative.
feos wrote:
The initial goal was to have a 512kb file that has proper subtitles, but then we end up with mp4 file with bad subtitles anyway, wether we make it or Archive does.
Incorrect, the "initial goal" of 512kb is to offer a streaming MP4 which can be played back directly on the site. If archive makes it, the file is huge and looks terrible. This is unacceptable.
feos wrote:
So I think the "least bad" solution would be to drop subtitles from mp4s if they don't look decent right away, and have only 2 traditional downloadables again.
I don't know what this means or how it's relavent to encoders/publishers incorrectly allowing Archive.org to derive its own MP4s for 512kb.
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It has come to my attention that publishers have been mishandling the encodes used for Archive.org playback.
Since we figured out what we were doing a couple of years back, there have been two important encodes for Archive.org. The first is our primary downloadable encode, which uses the best technology and aims for the smallest file size. That currently means 10-bit H.264 yuv444 with opus in an MKV. The other (the "512kb" encode) is meant for playback via our embedded archive.org player (or HTML5 player once I get it some new tweaks for the site), and must be in 8-bit H.264 yuv420 MP3/AAC in MP4. This latter format is also meant to be highly compatible with various players people hook into our site, or for those with really aging software on their computer.
While doing a status check to see about improving playback for the site, I noticed that many of our publishers are now sometimes uploading some kind of MKV for the 512kb encode, and allowing Archive.org to derive their own MP4 version from it. This is utterly unacceptable. As an example check out the current archive.org on site playback for [3050] NES Super Mario Bros. 3 "arbitrary code execution" by Lord_Tom in 08:16.23, the encode played back in the browser is absolute trash. For a top-rated newcomer-recommended movie, we have seriously failed here.
If encoders/publishers want to make their own MKV for the 512kb too for various reasons, that's fine, but they must ensure to provide their own MP4 of it and not allow Archive.org to create an MP4 itself.
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WST wrote:
Nach wrote:
I'm noticing a lot of no votes. Does someone want to elaborate what they dislike about this run?
No voters usually don’t do that :-p
Often I see people complaining about a run for various reasons. Such as it's too repetitive, too linear, whatever.
Without some explanation of things to look for in the discussion, judges will often just do whatever they think is best. I see here many posts describing what they like about the run, Spikestuff's in particular is helpful for comparison, but there's a high percentage of no votes, with nothing negative in the comments. Without knowing what people dislike, Dark Noob or others cannot improve this run, and judges have no way of knowing if the dissatisfaction is legitimate or not.
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I'm noticing a lot of no votes. Does someone want to elaborate what they dislike about this run?
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I was on a server all by myself - in every single channel I was in.
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Why did you TAS this in Japanese mode?
Also, no Victoly???
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Being accepted or rejected is not a matter of fault.
The movie relies on emulation errors and is therefore rejected.
If a player wants to know for certain, they can study the emulator, compare against a console and so on. However, this is not a requirement in making a movie.
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What is a perfect run?
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How much memory does your system have?
Have much is free before you load BizHawk?
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Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
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As brought up in the second half here. Emulators are more deterministic than consoles. We are therefore more fair in terms of least amount of frame competitions. Read there for rationale.
In terms of what we do on the site, our competitions are based on what the approved emulators are doing, barring anything we know for a fact is based on an emulation mistake. However doing something fixed where a console is more random is not an emulation mistake.
That being said, comparing one emulator against another brings up an interesting can of worms when the only improvement is due to emulator change. I agree with Mothrayas' precedent that we should be reviewing what gameplay actually changed, and if the run is merely synced against a different emulator by minor tweaks due to whatever variations while still keeping the same gameplay, the newer version should be rejected. I do fully support of replacing the less accurate emulator submission file with the better one on the existing publication, and adding to the page's information that the new player was responsible for the update. I do want to stress that Snes9x v1.43 is a very inaccurate emulator, which even provides silly options that players check to make it even more inaccurate.
I also want to reiterate that the original publication's acception was extremely tenuous. Personally I did not think the run truly warranted publication, although I erred on the side of the discussion. Seeing the ratings however, it would appear my original instincts were correct, and I probably should have rejected it. Part of what the previous run had going for it though was the dialogue the result produced. That's not true of this run, making it Vault, and this game is too trivial for the Vault. Therefore, I'd reject this for further issues on top of what Mothrayas mentioned.
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It was pointed out in IRC how these Sonic games has been utterly neglected in our Game Resources. It would almost appear our editors seem to only care about Mario, Mega Man, and Metroid.
I started a page: Wiki: GameResources/GBx/SonicAdvance3
Show it some love and fill it out.
I also started uploading maps all the way to 73, if someone wants to complete the subpages.
Anything you can do to contribute would be appreciated.
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Google Drive / Google Docs is great if you want to host spreedsheets, documents, and some random files.
Use the site's user files if you need to store files the site allows you (ask us to enable certain emulator related formats if not currently allowed).
Other material belongs on our Game Resources. Or if you want to document your own notes for making a particular TAS, you can store such information on a personal user page on our wiki. If you don't have one, feel free to ask.
Game maps and addresses can be stored on the site as well. Check out the Jetpack or Dune II Game Resources page to see our maps.
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Did I see you enter the buttons for Shun Goku Satsu during the Akuma fight?
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There's an emulator bug which carries this symptom in various forms. I haven't seen this particular version of it, but it looks just like the others.
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Any update regarding an updated movie?
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I highly advise splitting the runs.
We already have the lost levels and Super Mario World (for the larger version) as separate runs.
I can't think of any advantage of running all the games in a single TAS, unless you are playing all of them simultaneously, or are using a glitch in one to propagate something massive into the others.
If you're doing the normal runs, I can't say each by itself would be accepted, but you'll have a better chance of viewing the strength of each on its own submitted separately. (And trying to shove it all down our throats at once claiming all-or-nothing isn't doing yourself any favors.)
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True wrote:
That doesn't mean that such a robot can't manipulate luck, just that it can't do so presciently. Obviously the goal would be not be to read game state through a side channel (as in, anything not on the screen) to play as a human would, so in this case, the RNG would need to be characterized if it would be manipulated by the robot.
I agree, but a robot crippled in this way wouldn't be able to take advantage the way a normal TAS can. The idea we have in TASing is that the player becomes perfect, omnipotent if you will. That doesn't hold true (no pun intended) if the robot is using vision alone to play.
True wrote:
Also, TAS does not equate to "luck manipulation," which is merely one facet of creating a TAS movie. The first two letters of TAS are "Tool Assisted." So not only would this robot be related to TAS, it _would_ result in tool-assisted play which could result in TAS. Just because the input derived might not be submittable here doesn't mean it isn't a TAS.
I agree with this point too, but it undermines the foundational essence of what a TAS is - perfect play, knowing all the variables.
Warp wrote:
Something that Warepire wrote gave me a different idea, involving two consoles. I don't know if it's technically possible, but maybe: What if one console would be taken over by tasbot, and made into a tasbot itself, and would then proceed to TAS another console as normal?
I like this idea a lot.
On a practical level, if you're using an SNES with Super Mario World, or a Gameboy with Pokemon Yellow, or an NES with Super Mario Bros 3, or any other compatible console/game combination, I'd have it do the following:
First show a TASBot boot up splash-screen. This way the audience can see the console itself is now a TASBot. At this point, we can disconnect the first TASBot from it and plug in a regular controller. In TASBot OS, we can show a couple of options (to be determined later).
One of the available options in the OS is "TASBot reproduction sequence". In that menu it can choose which combination console/game to reproduce into. We plug in the appropriate console to the first one, and start the process.
During the reproduction process, we see a screen which says something like "TASBot reproducing", with a progress bar and percentage indicator. The progress should be worked out in advance to increase at a consistent rate, and reach 100% when the second console shows the TASBot boot up splash-screen.
If we can get the bootstrap sequence and payloads small enough for each system, we should be able to install an identical TASBot OS with payloads for all systems onto each one. We may need to RLE the bootstrap for certain games to make this feasible. We should also take advantage of SRAM or anything else offered to eek out as much space as we can to make the OS self working.
Lastly, after we show all the consoles are running TASBot OS, one of the options to choose from should be saved for the end and shown (nearly) simultaneously on all of them. Maybe something cute like TASBot announcing that even though it can go terminator on all humans, it would rather save humans and wants people to donate for a good cause.
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True wrote:
Nach wrote:
I think making such a thing is unnecessary.
What, computer vision robot? It's a neat thing. Is it necessary? No, none of this is necessary. Yeah, we can illegally run a ROM alongside a game and hope it doesn't go out of sync...or we (or I) can write an AI that beats a game unmodified, like K3, and can adapt this to other platformers. I could even have it press keyboard buttons mechanically :)
Such a robot though won't be able to manipulate luck. If it can't, then it's not related to TASing anymore.
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True wrote:
Another idea would be creating an AI for a normally multiplayer game, perhaps using computer vision or something.
I think making such a thing is unnecessary.
We have all the ports of the console connected to a computer, we have regular controllers connected to the computer too. The computer is running an emulator with the same game and has access to all RAM and can study all the relavent variables, including what power-ups are where, manipulating random drops and all that.
The players' input is entered into the computer which is then fed verbatim to the console, while the computer adds its own input as well for the player it controls.
This only works if the emulator is pretty accurate for the game in question and we can get the console to be running in sync with it.
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Derakon wrote:
I guess one possible suggestion would be trying to rig up some kind of AI to play "against" the player (or at any rate to rig the normal level hazards) in a nominally-singleplayer game.
This seems like a very interesting idea.
Take a multiplayer game with simple variables like say Super Bomberman 2. How good are players in battle mode against the built in AI? Now let's say we make our own AI which can monitor all the relavent memory variables and send in input via a controller just like a human. Making our own AI to wipe the floor with players is not something we've done before.
On the other hand, making AIs isn't speedrunning. I'm not even sure I'd call it a TAS anymore.
Otherwise, I think your remarks about focusing on content are spot on. We did some pretty crazy technical stuff this past year with Brain Age, and the real crazy work was wiring up a DS like that. Yet I have yet to see anyone care about that part of it. The end is more important than the means.
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dwangoAC wrote:
I hope to chain multiple consoles together and successively take total control of each console, forwarding button presses *out* the second (or higher) controller port by abusing the latch pin. This will require multiple people involved with hardware adaptation boards, total control runs, and payloads on each console.
I think this is a bad idea.
For nearly every demonstration till now, you've always had false starts, things for whatever reason not syncing upon the first try to run a game. You've had to clear SRAM and try again multiple times till you got it right. Not to mention potential interference and so on.
Say you get the first console all ready to go and it looks like it's playing correctly, how do you know the second one won't false start? If it does, are you going to try to correct that issue, and then start the TAS on the first console again from the beginning? Then this problem might occur again for the 3rd console and so on.
I enjoy watching dominoes, but it's easy to knock something over while setting it up, and that's been the track record more often than not. If you were going to film something in your home at your leisure where you can have as many takes as you want, and none of the interference you've seen at GDQ, then I think this is a cool idea. For a live audience, this is asking for trouble, and odds are heavily against you in pulling this off without problems.
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I just found this TAS while looking through the voting options for the awards for this past year.
Excellent TAS, easily one of my favorite of the year.
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I just checked this poll now.
CD Man, no brainer.
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adelikat wrote:
On the other hand, the SMW TAS that turns the game into Pong and Snake is a lot more accessible. Cheats don't turn games into other games, nor is this a logical rom-hack thing to do.
...so, Color-A-Dinosaur never happened?
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