Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2624
Reguardless of whether or not this is published I'm still making the full run. This is simply too cheap and probably should only be regarded as a novelty.
And I will use the moonwalk in the full run, and I'm sure I can find a place where it'll be useful outside of an aestetic way. This submission was mostly a test and a thank you.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2624
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
Would grabbing extra keys in a dungeon help? I'm not sure if they port across dungeons.
No, they don't. At least not from Crystal Dungeon 1 -> Crystal Dungeon 2.
Truncated wrote:
You only have to watch the triforce animation the first time. After that you can skip it with start, so restarting should be quick business.
*nod* Cool beans. I could die within dungeons as well as a substitute Magic Mirror as well.
Sorry about the lack of updates. V-Day responsibilities and all that.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2624
It's admittedly useless once you get the flute. But there's a few places where it might be useful before then (like 2nd palace -> Death Mountain, maybe, I'll test).
So it's nothing major. But I still need to think this entire thing out better. <3 @ TSA for the maps and the good starting point.
And Happy V-Day.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2624
Highness wrote:
Won't the hookshot be a time saver since it alows you to travel over gaps etc?
I don't know how quick the dash across the gap glitch is, guessing a pixel every two frames though, and there's only one place where you'd need it in the 5th dungeon, would having the gold sword for dungeon 2 be save more time than the time lost in dungeon 5 from not having a hookshot?). But I can already travel over any pit as long as I have the dash boots and I can get to its edge.
I completely forgot about the restart. I'll have to put some more thought into the path.
Would grabbing extra keys in a dungeon help? I'm not sure if they port across dungeons.
@Fabianx: There were two text boxes, one at the entrance and one at the wall. I don't think you can get around the second one.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2624
Then the only things different in my path from TSA's will be the Ice Rod gotten after the Ice Palace, and I complete #2 after #5.
I think that it slows you down iff you are facing the wall *and* you are walking near the edges of a door. If that's the case then I need to change one part.
I haven't made any tests though.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2624
I was thinking of taking this path (it differs slightly from TSA's because I don't need the hookshot in the Ice Cave):
0. Hyrule Castle
l1. East Palace (Bow)
l2. Desert Palace
i. Ether
l3. Tower of Hera
0b. Hyrule Castle Take 2
d1. Palace of Darkness
i. Flute
d4. Blind's Hideout
i. Sword L.3
i. Quake
i. Flippers
d6. Misery Mire
*if you need the fire wand to kill the Ice Demon and Kholdstare (will the lamp work?)*
d3. Skull Dungeon
d5. Ice Palace
i. Ice Rod
i. Sword L.4
*if you don't*
d5. Ice Palace
i. Ice Rod
i. Sword L.4
d3. Skull Dungeon
d2. The Watergate Dungeon
d7. Turtle Rock
d8. Ganon's Tower
d8b. Pyramid of Power
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2624
>.<;
Will fix.
And I wasn't able to get the Green Guard to move to the right either. Just up and left.
EDIT: Fixed that and another stairway bug. 89 frames faster at the entrance to the Secret Passage. Will release again at Sanctuary. Then hopefully, it's on to the first dungeon.
EDIT2: 119 frames faster at Sanctuary.
http://www.nerdparadise.com/crap/LoZLttP-Omni-WIP2.smv
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2624
I know it's not much. But here's up to the coming back to the first floor with Zelda.
Notes:
-60 frames faster up to that point (mostly the atrium and the four baddies that I have to kill)
-Saved a frame in the cave.
-Didn't take hit in courtyard, saved 2 frames in the bushes (from middle of 3rd bush to door opening was the same amount of time though).
-Used boomerang glitch thing. (That saved ~2 frames each time, 2x)
-Killed all the baddies quicker (If it can be done quicker the difference is maybe a frame, if not a pixel)
-Green Guard: I can't make him come down, I've tested up to a wait of 14 frames. And I figure if he can come down and hasn't yet, then it'd still just be quicker to just waltz straight in and kill him.
-Tested the pot, not as quick.
EDIT: Leprechauns thwarted.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2624
nitsuja wrote:
Some other things about the run so far, these are just nitpicks but they do cost a little time:
- In the big main entry room of the castle, you take a non-optimal path through that room (both times).
I'm not seeing the optimal path. I'll get on IRC, and bug you about it there.
nitsuja wrote:
- In the room with the green guard you have to kill to get into the room with the boomarang, you can manipulate that guard to start out walking to the right instead of up in order to kill him faster and closer to the door.
I only tried delaying upto 6 frames (as it was late, and I needed sleep). But if I did take a non-optimal route through the first room then I'll be able to try it on a different frame of entry, which is good.
nitsuja wrote:
- In the first dark room with rats in it, you go a bit out of the way to avoid a rat, which can be made to go in a completely different direction by changing when you hug the wall it's running along.
Totally my fault. I should have caught that.
nitsuja wrote:
- In the room with bats, 2 snakes running at you and a key in a chest, one of the snakes can be made to not run at you, so you don't have to throw a boomarang to get through.
>.<; I kinda assumed they always came at you.
nitsuja wrote:
- You lose 7 frames walking diagonally each time you go through the little two-stair room B2 above where Zelda is/was -- try going sideways first, then up+side. (What you do is slower because sometimes Link's diagonal running speed is cut in half just after entering a room or using an item.)
Will fix.
nitsuja wrote:
As far as I can tell, straight-up slashing is the fastest way to defeat the ball-and-chain guy, compared to throwing pots. But, throwing a single pot at him is almost as fast (within 5 frames). Actually, I think it's possible to save even more time by doing something like pinning him up against zelda's jail cell instead of the far wall, and/or using a spin attack (prepared while walking toward him) that hits him twice, but I haven't tried these out.
Again with the late at night. No time to test. (I'm still getting used to the game ^^;;)
nitsuja wrote:
At the part where you got hit, even in slow motion it doesn't look faster than walking to me, and it looks accidental when playing back at full speed, despite the fact it's certainly not accidental and in fact I'm not really sure how you managed to get the guard to push you at that angle. I just think that manipulating the guard to not be in your way so you can walk through at normal speed would look better. When you said it's 12 frames faster, did you mean it's 12 frames faster than it would have been if there were no guards at all?
The 12 frames was compaired avoiding the guard. I haven't tried to manipulate them away yet. But the path I choose in avoiding them didn't seem longer than just walking to the exit. (But it might have suffered slowdown or something. It's hard to tell when you're frame advancing.)
Which is a very good question. Is it quicker to make chunks where Link is running in one direction as long as possible, or as short as possible, or does it not matter?
*goes to test and tinker with movie.*
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2624
Hmm... now that I think about it, I had a couple of Ropes that I couldn't manipulate either. That's probably the case Nitsuja. Thanks. ^^;
The directional buttons I knew about. I was talking about X, L and R. The ones that are easy to add because they do nothing on outside of the menu.
And about the getting hit thing. You have to be hit from behind and some other things affect it. In the case with the guard in the courtyard it was faster than walking.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2624
It's 12 frames faster.
EDIT: And on that note, I'm going to watch the inside of my eyelids for a few hours. I'll try to work on this tomorrow evening. But I can't make any promises.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2624
Updated. 341 frames faster.
Same URL.
EDIT: Perhaps I should put some notes,
In the first basement with the two green guards, it is impossible to manipulate them based on the frame the screen moves over, I'm going to guess that means that the only time enemy's random motions are calculated is when you go through a door.
Which is why I wound up doing what TSA did and manipulated them by my posistion, and am therefore three frames too high and have to come back down.
I only searched 6 frames deep on enemy manipulation when going through doors.
The buttons you hold down seem to have no effect on the motions of enemies (other than sword swing, and probably dash when I get that). (I can't make the enemies do crazy shit by holding down X, R or L.)
I have to test whether or not grabbing a bottle and then hitting the guard 4 times is as fast as just blitzkreiging him.
*nod* That's the case on diagonals.
If anyone sees somewhere I can get hit forward easily tell me. I'm usually oblivious to that type of thing. *sweatdrop*
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2624
Actually I tested the boomarang thing. That's the first frame I can exit with the key. Otherwise I lose the key in the screen transition.
(EDIT: OHSHI~! Nevermind.)
I think earlier in the thread it was kinda decided that using the gambling game to get the 500 rupees was quickest.
I'll work on enemy manipulation.
And I'll test straight vs. diagonal walking.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2624
http://www.nerdparadise.com/crap/LoZLttP-Omni-WIP1.smv
Because there isn't anything else to compare it to I'll have to compare it to TSA's run (which is really really unfair >.<)
But it's up to the Sanctuary and perhaps 12 seconds faster.
(Sorry TSA, <3)
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2624
I finally tested it with Mario RPG. It still desyncs.
However, I was playing a movie I made with 1.43.
However, (again) it worked fine the first time, but desynced when I played it back for a second time.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Player
(36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2624
Have you tried getting a bump out of the Green car? You were really close.
(I just tested it, it is possible. And it might be possible to clean up that first bump with the blue car, it pushes you to the left as it is.)
(And I stand thoroughly corrected about the jump. How'd you do that?)
Oh, and the differences in each lap time were small but still there. I didn't see too much interferance by the other cars
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
