I can make a video of skipping the ice boots if you want. It'll just take a minute.
Edit: Ok, done! Youtube framerate limitations make the character appear invisible, but you can see where I am from the light circle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksFrQRV2iD0
Comments copy/pasted from youtube description:
"This is on the highest difficulty, so chest contents might be different. I think lower difficulties have a second chest at the very top. I also grabbed the HP max up earlier in the chapter so I can survive this."
I haven't had a chance to watch your WIP, but I suspect that the reason you couldn't make it is because you skipped the HP max up? It really is trivial making it through with 4 health, so that must be the reason. It is significantly faster to grab the HP max than to get the ice boots, and that HP max should allow you to damage boost more in later chapters so it should pay off.
I would define 100% as all MP/HP upgrades, all sword/armor/hauza upgrades (including both technique levels), fully leveled rings, and all other key items (fire boots, mirror, etc, though i doubt any of those are skippable with the previous definition). This sadly does include the 100 random enemies bit....which is the main reason 100% isn't quite as exciting. I have what I consider to be a pretty solid RTA route for 100% that I can gladly share if you're interested in doing down this route. Just note that it will be a NIGHTMARE to TAS because you'd need to manipulate random encounters with 2-3 enemies each....pretty constantly for the entire run.
This looks great! I love the 1up race at the end. Hahaha. It's so cool to see some of the double dashes Mr. K and I came up with for real-time runs being used in the TAS. ^_^ Can't wait to see the other stages!
That screen glitch has me thinking though. Seems to me that because you jumped off the moving floor, maybe you were moving faster and slipped past the end-of-screen catch plane somehow, which would underflow your position to the other side. Doesn't seem useful, but IF we could trigger the same effect in a room with a locked door on one side, concievably you could wrap around and come in behind the locked door, and just maybe bypass it? I've had a similar thought regarding my height overflows getting underneath a breakable floor but that sounds even less likely to be useful. At the very least, if one were to do a 100% TAS they might just be able to cut most of a screen of walking time with your glitch.
I tried this glitch in every single room in the game with this kind of screen transition (that is, an open edge as opposed to a door). I was unable to trigger the screen glitch anywhere except for that room in the mountain. It simply is not possible. :(
Khaz wrote:
I can't think of anywhere these might come in handy, but my memory of everything after Ortah is pretty incomplete... Is there any room where you could save a lot of time by getting over a pit too far to jump? If there's an enemy there you could jump on them, get hit, fly up, jump, then sword tech for like a triple-jump, maybe make it. Possibly in Mt. Badsel somewhere? I wanted to get across the gap in "Landslide" so badly but there's nothing to get hit by and the stairs probably aren't stairs anyway...
There is a place I used to damage boost over in 100%/"any% no game end glitch" in the Jade Mine. Normally you have you bomb through the floor and go through like 15 extra rooms, but if you damage boost across this gap by using one of the "arremer" enemies, you can skip all of that and go directly to the boss chamber. See this map for reference: http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/588294-dragon-view/faqs/69301
You do the damage boost in room "7" in Basement 1. Then just proceed right and bomb the floor in "8" to get to the boss. This is the only useful gap I found worth boosting over.
There MAYYY be some large gaps on Mt. Badsel but I don't know how the screen transitions work there. Another map for reference: http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/588294-dragon-view/faqs/69329
If you can damage boost over the gap to the right of door 1, and then again below door 3, you can skip a bunch of rooms. No idea how that works, but it might be worth playing around with?
Khaz wrote:
Anyways! Felt like doing some testing in the North Cave today. I have noticed before that you can walk through a door when you're not on the ground. This happens to me a lot in the very first room of Ortah, where if you jump-attack the warlock you'll often wind up standing on his head, and you can still walk through the door at that elevation.
That is exactly where that happens to me too! I don't even sword attack, I just raw jump on his head as he is grounded, and then he rises and I walk through the wall to the next room. :P
Khaz wrote:
One other thing I'm pretty sure of but need to test: Can you get through the illusion forest to badsel early? I think if you try without the "Blessing" the statue doesn't wake up and no cutscene and I'm pretty sure you can't just walk past, but not sure I've ever tried.
Nope, you need the Blessing unfortunately. You never make it to the statue screen. It loops back to one of the previous rooms iirc. I don't remember exactly what happens (I think that's right though...), but I do know you have to get the Blessing. This game is surprisingly good at preventing sequence breaks. Except for, you know, that one that ends the game halfway through.
I started playing this game yesterday and I found a pretty weird....bug? Hitbox exploit? I'm not really sure what it is. I'm hoping someone here can help with it because it can potentially save a lot of time.
You can kind of float/hover on the corner between a spike tile and a wall, but only on the left side of a spike. You have to move pure vertical (so left+up) into the very upper corner of the spike. It won't work on the right side corner for some reason. While in the hover, you can hold left and push against the wall briefly before falling, or you can move off the spike with down and save your life. Anything else kills you, including just releasing left+up. I haven't found a way to jump off the spike corner while in this state. Example video below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKBLJuC2SqE
You can probably imagine where I'm going with this. If the spike hover can be done in a spike-spike corner instead of just a spike-wall corner, we can skip a pool in stage 8: http://imgur.com/45SAzQg (circle is the target spike hover location). I can't generate enough momentum from the upper spike hover to clear the red spikes, so I think it'd have to be done this way. Similarly, if there is a way to jump out of a spike hover, we can skip one of the lower pools. It might be able to be used elsewhere in that case, too.
I have so far been unsuccessful in doing either of these things, but I was trying in real time. Hopefully someone can look into this and confirm how this works. Thanks!
Edit: Uploaded the movie file to make testing easier: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1487153618/Spike%20hover.fm2
Hahaha that's so good! It's a shame it isn't terribly useful. Just for kicks, did you check the underworld cave? The one in the south/southeast desert that connects to the underworld and is covered in fire. I remember trying to go backwards through there but I don't remember what stopped me. Perhaps a blocked door? It's probably been over a year since I've tested these things and I have no notes, so please excuse my shoddy details. Hahaha.
I haven't played Super Drakkhen but I do remember someone in my chat playing it and saying it had the same glitch at Ortah. It'd be worth double checking, though. After all, it does only take an hour to get there.
Actually. Yea I do remember testing that now. Hahaha. Yea, I checked those same three times (before ice temple, after ice temple, after Giza) to make sure. Same outcome. It's a shame, really. :/
That rock video looks really cool! Shame it isn't useful. :(
Yea I really like how the original route works out. Everything just comes together really nicely. Haha.
I tried to get through the fire cave without boots a long long time ago and had no success at all. I tried doing really stupid things like doing an instant sword special to avoid the initial fire damage (like, hold the special button so you use it instantly when you land, and don't take damage), and then try to land on top of enemies after it. I just couldn't get through the cave. 3 potions isn't enough. I'd love to see what happens if you can though!
I have no idea what triggers the sandworm quest. Seriously no idea. I am pretty sure I tried going directly to the sandworm quest without doing the ice temple, but I forget what stopped me. Maybe the old woman wasn't in the cave? I really don't remember. It's worth testing again for sure.
I spent a long time with this and was only able to get chests to teleport. Didn't matter what enemies were around, didn't matter if I dashed vs stood on one of the arrow tiles, what sword I had, etc etc. Also, the chests would only appear on a few tiles. Like, no matter what actions I took, how long I delayed, etc, the teleported chest would always be on one of a few specific tiles. This seems to indicate that the location of Magna's projectiles aren't impacting it. I think it's more critical that he is using the attack at all rather than any specifics of the attack. The other neat this is that if you collect the chest that would normally be teleported, then a different one will be teleported. It's a really bizarre thing. I still wasn't able to teleport any key item chests, but it has potential.
I didn't have any luck teleporting any other objects. You only have Magna for such a short period of time that your options are very limited. There are only like 3-4 rooms in the entire game that are large enough while you have Magna. :/
I decided to actually make a video of the chapter 5 chest glitch. I figure it's much easier to see that way. I just recorded a bunch of footage from SNES9x and then slapped it together. Nothing fancy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-WzTLkRejc
Copied from youtube description:
"This is just a real quick demonstration of the chest glitch in action. I don't know exactly how it works, but you can "move" certain chests to other locations within the room. The first three clips show three simple examples of moving the "aura blade" chest in the upper right corner of the room. The last clip just shows another example in a different room. That chest cannot be collected because once you move it off camera it disappears.
All of these have one thing in common: using the robot helper's (Magna) special attack and then quickly moving. I have no idea exactly how it functions, but I have been unsuccessful in getting this to "move" a key item chest. If we can move the magnet boots in the first room, we can skip essentially this entire chapter."
Oh cool! Nice find! This game has some real weird mechanics sometimes. I am reminded of the weird camera break that happened on that final mountain area:
http://www.twitch.tv/pjdicesare/c/1757181
This is the only screen in the entire game I've been able to do this on. It is so stupid.
Acmlm's route is not comparable to this for the most part. He collects equipment that would be needed for completion of the entire game (for instance, the hauza and two levels of lightning ring), whereas this route does not need the lightning ring at all because the game ends before it is necessary. For a more appropriate comparison, I beat the first boss 25 seconds earlier in my real time run than his TAS does...and I lost a good bit of time in that split.
My post in that thread was back when I *thought* we had a clear understanding of the game end glitch. That is, I thought that all we had to do was get to that cutscene without save/loading and then advance text on the right frame. Since the glitch is MUCH more complicated than that, optimization became more difficult. We had no idea how in-game actions impact this glitch, and sometimes extremely minor things such as transitioning a screen in a different location can make the glitch not possible. Until this is fully understood, complete optimization is more or less out of the question.
This game doesn't emulate real well. The sound/music is really bad in all the versions of MAME I've tested, and it has some graphical issues in some cases. The gameplay still remains pretty accurate from my experience, but the other issues are really distracting for me. :P
This is definitely an amazing game, though! A TAS of this should probably just be single player with Ryno because he is undeniably the fastest. A 4P TAS would be really interesting, but significantly slower due to the insane amount of lag and enemies.
Wow that new prize world. Hahahaha. That is incredible. I was never able to clip completely through the wall using the Ferris wheel. That is impressive.
A "no health glitch" run would be really awesome to see, but I did really enjoy this version. Best of luck if you choose to go that route. ^_^
I've probably played through it at least a dozen times on emulator not counting the TAS attempts but it's never crashed anywhere but Ortah for me.
Same here. I am quite sure that it can only legitimately happen in Ortah. Dirty/crooked carts are probably the causes for the other crashes reported elsewhere.
Sorry for my silence! I was away when this was submitted. This glitch is incredibly finicky and honestly any run that even triggers the game end glitch is worth accepting. There are definitely some sub-optimal moments in the TAS but it is far from sloppy. Our current knowledge is far too limited to create a truly optimal TAS anyways, because whenever we deviate from this exact route we are unable to cause the game end glitch. Therefore, I'm going to give it a "yes" vote, and hope that it encourages others to look into this glitch more.
To piggyback on what Omnigamer said, I did encounter a game crash while opening a chest in Lake Cave. It looked graphically identical to other "crashes" that I noticed from the Ortah cutscene glitch, but I was never able to look into it more because it happened to me exactly once and on cartridge. It is very likely it was just a dirty cart or something and not an actual bug in the game. So yea, it is *possible* that the glitch can be done in other places, but it is pretty much impossible to test.
I'm really excited to see that somebody is interested in working on this! I absolutely love this game, and was planning on doing some more routing for an RTA after SGDQ.
Like Omnigamer said, I found a weird chest displacement glitch in the Sky Fortress or whatever it's called (the chapter with the magnet boots). I was able to relocate several chests using the robot helper's special attack, but unfortunately none of them were key item chests. I don't remember the details of the glitch either, but I'm sure it's in Omni's notes. :P
It will be difficult to route pickups. I think MP would almost always be worth it just because it speeds up bosses so tremendously. HP upgrades aren't necessary at all I don't think. Not only are there plenty of health refills as you mentioned, but you can just run through most enemies. If you're holding the attack button while dashing, you will autoattack an enemy if you run straight into them. On several occasions, I was able to just constantly autoattack and push right through the enemy without taking damage (most obvious on the plant enemies in chapter 2 sewers). I didn't quite figure out how that works, but I'm certain it can be abused in a TAS.
You can also skip a lot of story items. In chapter 1, you don't need anything except gas mask. You can skip torch, hammer, and ice boots. If there is a way to cancel the air sword's charge attack (the skyfall attack) you can skip even more items, but I haven't found a way to do so yet.
Anyways, I'll be following the progress on this closely. Good luck!
Edit: I forgot to mention that the difficulty does change the chest contents. Some chests don't exist, and the contents of other chests are just changed. IIRC, there is a lot less red medicine in the hardest difficulty (might not be any red medicine); it is mostly replaced by the blue medicine. The key item chests are in the same locations though, so it shouldn't matter much for a TAS. Should probably do highest difficulty just out of principle.
This run was incredibly entertaining and I am all for accepting it. The use of GT code did not take anything away from the run for me. In fact, part of what made this run so ridiculous was the 0-health gauntlet. I wouldn't have enjoyed the run nearly as much if it collected everything the long way or with X-ray climbing and then executed arbitrary code to reach the ending. Honestly, I probably would have not even bothered watching a TAS that did that because "arbitrary code" endings are generally really anti-climactic and boring to me.
In my mind, using the GT code *added* to the difficulty of the run (as already mentioned), removed a lot of trivial sections , and added a significant amount of entertainment value to the run. I am also of the perspective that debug code != cheat code.
I'm giving it a strong yes vote, and hope I see this make it on the site.
Yea, sorry. I didn't know about this when you were working on the TAS, though I'm sure the website that informed me of it was around at that time. I still am baffled that I can't find the site.
I played around with it for awhile, but couldn't get any results other than spawning in 4b. I'm really not sure what would cause it to spawn you in stage 5. 4b I can understand if it screenwrapped you or something, but stage 5 is a completely different area.
I couldn't find a thread for this game. Apologies if there is one.
I'm going to be looking into doing some speed runs of this game since I just ordered a supergun and own the board. There are a few things I'm wondering about, though. Perhaps someone here knows the answer or could help.
How do random drops work in this game? You need to get the shield to complete the game, but farming for the shield can potentially take a long time. Is there a set drop sequence or something? I used to do score runs of this and noticed I would tend to get the shield drop in the same place fairly frequently. It would be really good to know how this works.
I read about a screen scrolling trick in stage 4 that can potentially save time on the TAS. I made a video of this awhile ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQPqFu1JA60
I read about the above trick on a website that I can no longer find. On that page, it mentioned that there is a chance this screenwrap/wrong warp/whatever you want to call it will respawn you on stage 5 instead of 4b. This would obviously be a really useful thing to know for sure.
That's all I am wondering about for now. Thanks in advance!
Edit: Uhhh...for some reason this double posted? I don't know what would've caused that. Sorry!