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Qlex
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Nice find! I unfortunately cannot help you right now, and I'm bad at route planning anyway, but I highly encourage you to continue this way. You can get the green treasure without having high jump right? I don't remember what item is in it, but considering your work, there will be sequence breaks. Good job again.
Qlex
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Anyway, this is not interesting enough since you can't reach treasures when in fire, so you can't finish a level this way. There are several improvements needed to complete the level fast, Rridgway, you may focus on them.
Qlex
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Very good, I was impressed by the improvements, and I laughed at some entertaining moves. Too bad there's a lot of waiting due to the "getting item" screen, but even after seeing that game speedrun for the hundredth time, I found it very cool. Yes vote.
Qlex
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Ok, I took a quick but good look at your run, and I wish to say some things first: First of all, I'm very pleased there's someone working on this game, and I'm pleased you brought me the first level before continuing. No matter what I'll say, don't stop working on this, even if it looks too difficult. Enthusiasm and quick work are one of the TASer's best qualities IMO and I think you have these. Okay then, I'm afraid I have a lot of questions and advices about your moves that may force you to redo this movie. Here they come :
  1. You didn't take the japaneese text, but the english one. Is taking the english version faster than the japaneese one?
  2. I see you use a perfect A-button-mashing during the opening sequence. It's good you use frame advance, but have you checked if you could use it constantly and press it again when you need to scroll the text? I think you lost a few frames here, but nothing important.
  3. An extent of the previous question would be : Did you check, using frame advance, and several savestates, that your moves were the fastest? I see a lot of moves that seemed like they could've been faster. I know you had a hard time working on this (I see more than 200 rerecords), so don't hesitate to talk about every problem and strategic decision you had or took during this level.
  4. VERY IMPORTANT, SEE THE TWO LONG POSTS I MADE HERE!, you will learn what's fastest for Wario. Let's just say you don't use correctly the chargejump, before landing you must press back then forward (frame perfect, just before landing), you must NEVER jump or do only one charge to gain horizontal speed, because you will lose some frames (with a charge I think it's more than 10) if you do so.
  5. when, chargejumping, you're getting close enough to a ladder for Wario to climb it, don't wait, press back then up. Don't hit the wall, it's slowing Wario. And when you're at the top of it (actually you must stop a little bit before getting at the top of it), press b+right (or left, here it's right), and you will gain some frames.
  6. In the beggining of the level, you break the blocks with just charge, but you must make a chargejump against the block (ie when you think you won't be able to do a chargejump without hitting the blocks), and you will chargejump through these blocks while destroying them. I think the fastest move here would be to stop against the first row of block during a frame and do a chargejump, so you will destroy both rows.
I had to write it down quickly, hope that helps. Don't hesitate to ask questions.
Qlex
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Necessary? I'm afraid there's a misunderstanding. A video or a .vbm of that would be appreciated. I may try it, but I'm busy these times. It's good anyway that you improved the opening sequence, I can't wait to see the beggining! Best of luck.
Qlex
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Rridgway, I don't know if you've been working on this recently, but upload a .vbm as soon as you've finished a room (or a level), I may have several advices that may ask you to redo some parts. Just for you not to redo a whole part of your movie, or for you not to hexedit...
Qlex
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moozooh wrote:
On the subject of entertainment: if this run will ever get redone, I DEMAND that the door that gets blasted by SA-X in the first cutscene is opened beforehand, as P.JBoy did it in his hard mode any%. I laughed really hard when SA-X opened an already open door with a super missile. :D
Damn right. I hope next time the TASer will HAVE to wait for a few frames (luck manipulation) here, so I would see that again.
Qlex
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Nope, I called commentary the author's notes. Sorry.
Qlex
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I found it perfect. I would have asked for a star, but it's true that many viewers might find it annoying. Yes vote anyway, I remember your first 100% run Biospark, and I see you still are very entertaining in each of your moves. I tried to guess which way you would shoot the next door, and I didn't succeed once >=( Good job!
Qlex
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I had a lot of fun watching this and the commentary. Congrats. Yes vote
Qlex
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Well, I'd better let josh speak for him(her)self about the transformations, as I've never seen them, but there is a glitch that might work on WL3, as it worked when I played WL2 in real-time. In the beggining, a chargejump takes you 2 tiles up, then it's 3 if you get the powerup. Actually, I think you could reach a platform that's 1 tile higher, with some conditions. Let me explain. If you can reach the platform by jumping through it (so no rocks or anything), and if there is an enemy on it (strong enough for the chargejumping Wario to bump against it), then, considering that a chargejump against that enemy might send you 1 tile more in the skies, you could reach some platforms you're not supposed to reach. It worked using WL2 in real-time, it might work with WL3, somehow with tool-assistance. Unfortunately, I didn't see how it could get treasures or unlock levels prematurely, but I think it could be the case in the beggining of the game (with Wario so weak he bumps against everything, when he's supposed to take the high jump to reach platforms 3 tiles away). Hope you understood.
Qlex
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Unfortunately, I didn't find glitches about bosses or music boxes. I didn't look carefully at glitches in this game, I admit there might be some with the vertical moving or the transformations where it's not supposed to happen (this last one according to josh), but I don't think there could be any abusable glitches to skip bosses or glitch music boxes.
Qlex
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That is correct. I can bring more help if you have any questions about this game.
Qlex
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Lol. I was all like : "OH I NOTICED A MISTAKE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN THE FASTEST AT BOTWOON'S SINCE IT SHOULD HAVE STILL BEEN ALIVE... oh damn." It's an insane movie, it kind of brought me back memories for the hundredth time ;) Voting yes, asking for star.
Qlex
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I completely understand your problem, I'm in the same situation. I haven't heard about SoR remake's release though, it sounds awesome. I'm going to take a look at it.
Qlex
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atro city wrote:
Haven't touched the run for a while, but with Christmas break coming up after finals, I should be able to get a good chunk of work done to make up for it.
Good. REPOST EDIT : What have you done?
Qlex
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As promised, I started a run a long time ago, but now I lost the motivation to do it, and I realise I could have done the wrong choices. Here are some questions to begin with :
  1. Are you people more interested in seeing a beggining with 0 shurikens (Neofix's movie) than with 50 shurikens (jhp's movie)? I started with 0 shurikens because that way you can make a completely different stage compared to all those you have shurikens, but here's the problem :
  2. If I were doing run starting with no shurikens, where would I choose the pow? I thought I could be taking it in 1-2 but this may be slower than taking it in 1-1.
Thanks in advance. If some people are interested in seeing this I'll get back to work.
Qlex
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Okay, I tried a lot of things for this movie not to desync but I failed. Does anyone know if there was something particular for the run to be played correctly, other than setting the controllers to 3 buttons, using gens 9g, 9f or 9c or disable the sound? Thanks in advance, I would like to TAS this game, so I need to see the movie. EDIT : My bad, it actually is a different rom used than the one I have. Sorry, I found the problem. REPOST EDIT : Okay, I just don't know if it is going to be useful, but just in case of, here's what I noticed, I hope jhp is going to improve this run, and if not I'll continue the half of 1-1 I did a long time ago. First of all, getting 50 shurikens in the beggining doesn't make me say this was played on the hardest difficulty. It could have been for entertainment purpose, but in the beggining I see you killing the enemies at no particular distance, instead of killing them at the last possible frame. Now here's a review for each stage. Stage 1 : Pressing start so round 1 could start was slow I think, because I didn't see the picture that represents round 1 although I can see it with a well-timed start. 1-1 : Killing a lot looks cheap to me, I don't think it was necessary, jumps don't look well-timed in the beggining and you don't make dance samurais (I do that in my TAS, you will see). I thought you could have been hit by the dog in the end, but as you can't get the pow in 1-2, you did the right choice. 1-2 : Haha, I had that idea of dancing with the ninja too... but didn't you try to move between the bamboo spikes? I have a question : how is it possible to turn back and activate the lever (or something that tells you "GO"), when you're not near it? Other than that, good ideas. 1-3 : I think each shuriken you throw is a little bit late compared to a possible "perfect" run, but I'm not sure. 2-1 : Not that great, considering that you tone down the difficulty by killing everybody IMO. 2-2 : Too bad you didn't take the fastest way : If you get hit there is a POW in the end of the level if I recall correctly. The dancing was awesome though, and so was the secret jitsu (I wanted to do that in my TAS). 2-3 : I think it was perfect, very good. 3-1 : Not that bad, but, as always, I don't like the killing a lot, plus it caused lag. And, near the end, didn't you try to get bump by a man so you could have a better time? I'm sure getting bumped when reaching the exit is faster. 3-2 : Good one. 3-3 : Good boss fight, I'm sure it was perfect. 4-1 : Again, it's looking good, but try and see if getting bumped by the flamethrower guy could have been faster. 4-2 : Perfect I think. 4-3 : Perfect too IMO. 5-1 : Very good, but it would have been more entertaining if you were killing people here, but again, that's just what I think, it's not objective review. 5-2 : Everything seems to be made for you not to waste time with those ladies, but I too want to say that there could be a way =/ . However, at some moment you make a double jump so you reach the foreground, then another double jump so you reach the background again, but the only thing you do is avoiding the car, which doesn't look nice. 5-3 : It does look good, but is the first version of RoS different from the third one about boss life? That boss battle looked really fast compared to Neofix's movie. 6-1 : NOOO, why using Ikazuchi? didn't you try to find a way out? You don't need pow until 6-3, I'm sure you don't, so you can get hit and get the pow during 6-2! and what's that turning back before the end? Good dance though. 6-2 : Hehe, now that killing people is entertaining to me, very good run on that one. 6-3 : Nothing to say 7-1 : lol turning back to kill the flamethrower. 7-2 : Good but, as Truncated said in Neofix's, several times, you push against the walls when falling next to it. Isn't there any acceleration? If so you should fall a bit away and press forward so that you just miss it. 7-3 : Awesome that you ran out of shurikens in the end. I have some questions though, are the damage from the sword and the damage from a pow shuriken the same? And is the luck manipulation about the boss the best one? Answering my questions would be really helpful, but it would be better to have them answered here
Qlex
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I laughed SOOOO much when I saw the second Yamato being taken down :) I loved it, it was absolutely beautiful. I hope the third Yamato will be killed another original way, I thought about both hitting the boss with rhythmic punches (something that REALLY fits in the music, not a punch at every interval), but do as you wish.
Qlex
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I don't have time to TAS this game, and I start having a big list of game to TAS, so I can't do it, unfortunately. The only thing I can do is giving you as much advices as I can, so if you want to attempt it again, don't hesitate to ask for help, and do use frame advance =P
Qlex
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Anything new? Have you continued it or redone a part of it?
Qlex
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Hehe ok, I have no questions left, keep it up =) . EDIT : I looked again at the movie, and I found it perfect. Just don't change anything ^^ .
Qlex
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Guess I had to watch it, and I didn't think it was bad at all. The fact that Zan shouts "parrot" repeatedly is not a problem for me, I mean I understand Blaze's dance. The only thing that doesn't make it awesome IMO is that Blaze is not frenetic enough for the music. Say, there's a kick then a strong hat in the music every 2 steps, yet Blaze does change direction every 4 steps, which does look a little bit slow. Besides, I thought that Blaze walking randomly left right up down could have been funnier, with some frame advance moves (the frame advance tornado) that would represent that tune you hear sometimes in the music (some kind of guitar, but it could be another part of the music, your choice). Again that's just my VERY subjective opinion, do whatever you want to do with it. Also, when I thought about dancing, I imagined Zan and Blaze doing some sort of synchronized dance. But it does look good, don't be discouraged.
Qlex
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Awww... that's why I don't like Zan =/ Sometimes Blaze's silent yelling can cut off Zan's, but I'm not sure about it, and I'm not even sure that you hear the song during the process. Actually I can't see the run right now, but I definitely will. Okay, I like creating entertaining things in my TASes a lot, so I'll give you a few tips : If you have nothing to do, then dance. For that, find the song's rhythm (I think this one's 150 beats per minute) and think about how many times you should do something fun (Say, walking non-stop and changing direction every step is cool IMO), so you calculate (150*4=600 steps per minute, 600/60=10 steps per second, 10/60=1/6 steps per frame, 1/6*6=1 step every 6 frames, so one direction change every 6 frames, or one punch every 6 frames, etc... your choice, although I think that every 2 steps (12 frames) would more understandable), then make some tries with it and see if you are satisfied with it. You can also make a more complex dance, by writing down some kind of choregraphy. If you are used to calculating (as I think you completely are), then this shouldn't be a problem. I don't know if you "juggled" with Yamato, using his stupid AI to make him dash away from Blaze to Zan (or the contrary), but I did this when I did a 2P real-time run with my brother, and we laughed a lot from it. That's all I can tell, be patient and think a lot about this fight 'cause it has the best entertaining potential ever. I'm really looking forward to it. Keep it up and good luck.
Qlex
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Okay then, I'll do some more research about it and I'll give the time losses ASAP ;) REPOST EDIT : Okay, so the answers to my own questions ;) :
  1. Full jump is slower (4 frames slower than the best jump), and the best jump can have different values : if you jump during 10 or 18 frames the final time will remain the same. The best thing is to do a 15 frames jump so there shouldn't be a mistake, but, as always, check if the jump was really the fastest ^^
  2. The longest part >_> : Okay, as you said and as I thought, Wario has a different technique speed if he walks before the technique or not. When you hold right (or left), Wario starts building a speed he doesn't have when he does nothing, and, as long as you hold right (or left), after 15 frames Wario reaches his maximum speed, meaning that when he lands after falling and walks he is 4 frames faster than usual (although he doesn't have a perfect acceleration), when he does a charge or a chargejump he is way faster than usual, and so on... You can still have that state if you do a little jump (good for turning back but we'll see about it later), or you can lose that state after a charge, or after a chargejump landing, but there is a way out for the chargejump. First, if you want to be the fastest in short distances, a slide is faster than (or the same as) anything else as long as :
    • You have to move for 2,5 blocks (or 40 pixels)
    • You don't have to do anything after the slide other than falling (Not if you have to continue your way right or left, I mean falling vertically) or hitting the treasure.
    A little jump after a slide is 7 frames slower (4 frames because of a little speed loss due to a normal little jump, 2 frames because of the little jump itself, 1 frame because before Wario jumps he stops), so don't do that after a slide if you have to move! The important about slide is that it is effectively the fastest when you don't have the 15 frames acceleration, and even with the 15 frames acceleration, it could be 1 frame faster than walking in some ways Then : In order to gain that acceleration :
    • I know that before that, walking seems to be a bad idea(1 block for 15 frames, which means an average speed of 1,06 pixels per frame) whereas chargejump seems to be the best example. But, as we said, after a chargejump you lose acceleration.
    • This way, a chargejump is and will remain a good idea as long as before you land, you push back then forward, this will make Wario stop just before he lands so he could be able to regain that acceleration right before landing. This can make Wario do a faster walking, charge, chargejump etc...
    I forgot to see if charge then jump at the last frame of the charge is the best way but I don't think so according to the results, you should check it though. After you have acceleration, as long as you can, do a complete charge (2,08 pixels per frame), and for you not to get slowdown, jump right before the charge (chargejump = 2,047 pixels par frame) and cancel your chargejump before landing. I think you gain 10 frames each time you do that. When you need to jump, do as much chargejumps as possible, it's the fastest, unless exceptions (We'll see about it later), and if the ceiling is three blocks (48 pixels) high, walk, it's cleaner and as fast as anything. That's all for that part ^^
  3. As discussed right before, turning back thanks to a chargejump is faster than anything, but if you can't do a chargejump, then make a little jump turn back. Check which one is faster when you are in front of the key.
  4. Horizontal boost does exist, and should be used oftenly during the run as I think it can be faster in many ways. Unfortunately, that boost cannot help you walk on a flat ground faster, you even lose 1 frame. Horizontal boost can only be used when you need to land on other platforms than tho one Wario was on before he jumped.
Of course you will have to test other situations but I hope this is enough for you to redo the movie and make it perfect. Don't forget that in the level selection screen, you can hold a direction before the screen appears, it won't be slower, and this applies also to changing direction. Last things :
  • If you need to break blocks, do a frame-perfect chargejump without acceleration so you will get through the first row of blocks and hit the next row if the ceiling is three blocks high, you must be against the first row of block or if not it won't work.
  • Don't forget that you can protect Wario from donuts if you crouch.
  • When you eat the donut in air and then hit an enemy Wario will eat his donut with insane speed! Try to wait for the little guy to throw the donut and then jump in order to eat the donut above him. Of course, luck manipulation can help as you know that the slowdown due to landing can be cancelled by hitting an enemy.
  • If you don't think people will be interested in the run, then be entertaining by doing some funny things when you have nothing to do such as dances or anything, I'm sure anyway that this run will be appreciated.
Thanks, now I know about anything the game hid, and I don't think I would've searched about this alone. Let's hope I'll make my real-time speedrun of it someday ^^. Good luck with the run anyway, I'm looking forward to it. EDIT 2 : Forgot to say that the chargejump cancel landing must be frame perfect or else it will be 2 frames slower. Also don't forget to push left or right before landing normally, you will cancel the landing animation.
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