A very quick note to say : I didn't look at your v2, but I did look at the two first. I actually wanted to make a real-time speedrun of it, with time trails completed and all (I got 59 seconds at the first level), so I made a lot of research about this game, I found techniques you didn't use on your v1 (although I dunno if you found them for the v2), and, well, I think that, instead of doing my own run as planned before, I may give you all the tips and advices I have for this speedrun to be the best one EVER =) .
Right now I'm very busy because of school, but I'll manage to see that v2 and give you a good analysis in a few days. Bye!
EDIT : I tried to understand some of your choices using vba but could you actually make a list of what's faster :
You jump in order to climb on a scale faster, especially in vertical tunnels, but I think that you don't make full jump because the last frames of the jump make Wario move slow. care to describe the frame of the jump when you stop?
Which of these is the fastest when moving a lot, moving a little, etc... : Walking, charging, charging then down (I call it slide) or charging with jump (I call it chargejumping)?
When you get a key, walking, you manage to turn back immediately by charging the other way, but is it faster to make a little jump right before getting the key? The question refers to the Pool of Rain, when you get the grey key, but could refer to other situations
You get a forward boost by jumping up through a corner, I checked it. But do you think doing that forward boost when the corner of the block is near Wario is faster using a little jump? See about desert ruins, the doors that open when it's night or not, and do a little jump when you're about to pass through them. If it's faster say how many frames you gain.
If you could answer these questions, I would be really grateful, and could help you by understanding every of your choices so far. Right now I'm afraid you will have to redo your movie before doing anything, as you know you lost a LOT of time by not using chargejump against breakable blocks in the beginning, or not always running during the level selection, also because of the loss of several time savers that I'll talk about in a few time. I'll just say for now that if you do a frame perfect chargejump (B then down in 2 frames) against breakable blocks, you will get through them as if they were nothing and will be able to break the next block row if the ceiling is three blocks high, think about it! Bye.
<3
The Stage 4 scene 2 was sooo cool! I'm glad you finished that hard part of the run, and I hope you will finish the run, no matter how long it will be.
Actually I won't have internet for a long time, but the good thing is that I'll see some progress again when I'll get back. Keep it up!
Good to see some people working on it :) , I actually have no time because I have some important exams, but after June 24th I may be working hard on this, so we may be giving advices to each other. I wonder what it may look like, just post your movie as soon as you get to the end of 1-A please, thanks.
EDIT : I can give you any kind of advice for 1-A 1-B, so please for TAS's sake give me advices for 1-C if you play it >.<
EDIT 2 : Went serious about Itchy and realised it's a pain I didn't expect. Actually it seems that I must hit him as many times as possible when he is on screen (2 consecutive hit on screen : 267 frames, 2nd hit after he leaves and comes back : 310 frames). It also seems that I must shoot him right before he gets to some places like doors and let him go so he could get out through the door and lose his invicibility time.
Redoing the whole thing. I think I can shoot him three times instead of twice about the first time he shows himself. I'll be patient, but I'm getting closer don't worry.
REPOST EDIT/EDIT 3 : Actually, Itchy is even worse than a Zazabi. When walking to the right, the fastest thing is : I must, when walking to the right, hit him so he disappears dying out of the screen. First I must shoot everywhere w/ my machinegun so Itchy stops walking as fast as possible (not shooting makes him stop at a certain point) ; then I must shoot him at an accurate frame so, when he is hit and disappears to the right thanks to screen scrolling, he doesn't come from the right (I tested many times and hitting him at a certain frame makes him appear whether on the right, whether on the left, but after he is hit, nothing can change it).
I lost motivation, I did stop the run for a while and I don't have a lot of enthusiasm right now, so meh. RetroHolo, I can give any kind of advice for the stages X-A X-B, but I'm really tired about the boss fights, this game is hard to TAS, that's not a joke. Conclusion : For now I'm on Revenge of Shinobi, but I didn't really abandon the Dick Tracy one. I'll get back to it when I'll like it.
All will be forgiven once the run is complete. :) Hope you can get past stage 4 soon, it's always though when you get stuck somewhere boring and lose your motivation because of it.
Link_enfant, here's a map that you may find useful ^^ . I used it in order to check the chozo guardians I disarmed or not. If you can't find a way to them, don't hesitate to ask me about it.
Easy mode w/ no-damage.
I took Blaze because of her slam that kills an enemy quickly (In matter of speed, "kill that makes the enemy fly"<"slam kill"<"throw out of the level") as weak enemies are numerous, plus Blaze has the right speed, has good combos and good jumps/jump attacks. Zan is harder to handle for a real-time player (for me at least :p ), even though his infinite aerial downward combo is great for safe kills.
I made that TAS with no slowdown, only savestates and imperfect skills, but that .gmv movie is meant to show the route I'm going to take for my definitive speedrun. Please, by all means, say if I made bad choices (About AI safe manipulation for example), give advices about some bosses (especially Mona/Lisa), I may have been playing around for fun and entertainment in some parts (Shiva, the moving platform), but don't hesitate to ask, thank you very much.
http://rapidshare.de/files/27019396/sor3tas.gmv.html
Sorry I didn't have time to see it until now. I like the way you speedrun this game, and I don't think you should change it (except for a better time). I have nothing to say other than that, very good BOX fight and good idea : You picked up bob after you managed to skip it ^^
You should redo the movie, I think it's not too late, at least I hope, because the entertainment part has reached its peak, so it must be a perfect movie in matters of speed.
if it had shot diagonally I would of had to morph
Wrong, that does not happen in DF's 0% run, segment 3, he doesn't morph and makes the SA-X shoot diagonally.
I've been looking at this run recently and it's lots of fun. But, have you checked if you were losing time doing some acrobatics? Like falling in the lvl1 security unit? Anyway the only mistake I noticed is that the SA-X didn't shoot diagonally the shoot before the last one, so you had to jump twice. Anyway, I liked it a lot, good game P.JBoy !
AKA : Yes the 1P one has the good ending (the bad one sucks)
It wasn't supposed to be a definitive last in the series, but SoR4 got cancelled (it was planified for Dreamcast) so SoR3 is the official last game of the SoR series (there are other games made by fans shown on wikipedia, but they're not finished).
About the 2P method, well, you might ask atro city about that, he'll give you a good answer, I'm sure ;) .
NO, thank to god, for speedrun's sake, in the end you cannot choose to fight against each other. Besides, in SoR1 you were able to choose not to fight against your buddy.
No problem about the link, but I just didn't understand at first place that you wanted a rapidshare link. Just let's not fight for this here (I personnaly don't care).
Here is the current 2P movie .gmv . If you want the 1P one, you can find it here, but the 2P one is way cooler although it is not finished. Sorry though if you may want an .avi I don't know how to do that.
I don't care about the fact that you didn't get until end of 4-1, just for more SOR3 :
<3. That's all.
I DLed it, the links works great. Now I'm going to watch it dum dee dum...
EDIT : Awesome. I was really amazed by all the speed and moves you can pull out of both characters in order to damage enemies like hell does. The three Garcias trick was fun, no better way to begin with IMO. I saw some interesting moment about the car trick, but still no getting through, well I wonder what you are going to do with it. After all, getting through the car is just completely random so I would understand if you were about to complete that part fast (real time I mean >_>). So again good work, and good luck.
EDIT 2 repost : People might want this :
Savestate Stage 4
I also want to talk again about hexediting : I really think there should be an edit of the options part and the Bruce&Roo fight because I want that TAS to be a complete success and, well the Bruce and Roo fight is the only part that was boring compared to everything else, considering that it could've been a lot faster and more entertaining.
Atro city, if you're too busy to redo these parts, I might be able to do them, with entertainment for Bruce and Roo fight being more important than time, and with as less changes as possible (same ending with Bruce, showing for 5 secs the original strategy), but I don't really know how to hexedit. If there is a savestate problem then we'll proceed once the run is finished. What do you think?
I was about to quote everything but now I can't do it.
Foda wrote:
Qlex, instead of finding my post offensive at you, try to comment on what i said. Are they willing to change things on their side instead of trying to tell us what to do?
No they don't seem to be and are not likely to change that way, but I thought some of them would, just as some advice. Now I'm afraid people are not about to modify things in a way that may put down their videos if not everybody wants to do that. I understand that logic.
IdeaMagnate wrote:
Qlex, I appreciate your efforts to make peace, but I don't think the people who still want more from us will ever change their minds. Feel free to keep trying, but the Bisqwit is pretty clear that we don't need to change and Nate is pretty clear that we do. I don't see you getting anywhere with this, other than getting on some people's bad sides.
Very well found out =/ I'm afraid you're completely right.
FractalFusion wrote:
I noticed how the subtitles were consistently being ripped from the .avi.
We should start putting subtitles in the middle of the movie, like in Tetrisphere.
If I had to ask you to make more efforts, I'd write about that one. Yes, the Tetrisphere one is incredibly well put. But now asking for efforts is pointless if I don't do efforts myself -_-' . I was about to say something like "As if she (he) had the power of a god, the player can use everything on computer that helps making the walkthrough of an official game technically perfect." and had a lot of ideas, but now it's just really too complicated, I cannot be subjective, I cannot say I don't want to make TAS movies boring when I ask for 15 secs of movie, because when it asks for every viewer to understand it, no matter how much it's beautiful, it's boring. So I give up.
I think I'm about to repeat thing on and on, thanks Tub for caring about venting, and everyone else here said some really interesting things, as for the m2k2 topic.
Even better : If people are bored watching the TAS, speed makes less boringness. I remember Donamerdragon's GB Zelda Link's Awakening glitched in around 5 mins, he said : "Completing the game so fast the viewer doesn't have time to be bored." or something like that.
Also, saying that TASes are a problem wasn't nice in the first place, was it... If it's a problem for speedrunners they can find their own solutions on their own environment. Not here.
Where did I say that? I said it was a "so-called" TAS problem, meaning that TASes generated a problem, not that they were a problem. I just thought that people wouldn't feel bad about it. I did want to be nice. Please, stop saying that I haven't been nice ok? Sorry it could've been taken as something insulting though.
And no, they didn't find their solution on their own environment, that's why I asked for free help. If you didn't want to be disturbed, okay, no problem. But, to everyone else : don't say that this is about someone's fault : It's not your fault, it's not m2k2sda's fault, and I just thought about some collab. Any help could have been greatly appreciated. So, by the way, thanks to Bisqwit who said what was needed to be said here. Follow his example please, thank you.
To Boco : I would be saying "This Optimal Gameplay Demo was not made on real-time conditions. See Why&How for details.", but yeah nice sentence.
About hatred : hatred have no reason to exist IMO. Someone hated another one, and that another one hated that someone back. If these two persons don't want to try being good friends, which is painful, nothing will change, and they will still hate each other, which is painful too. But don't compare this to that situation please, just keep in mind that you shouldn't be hating someone.
EDIT : To Warp that simuposted : Well, I know people are confused, so I wouldn't give excuses : If I were asked to fix that by making a one minute long introduction on my real-time run, I would accept. But well, guess there's a minority of people that would accept that.
Now I'm out for some moment, got to work for high school. I might be here in around 20 hours. Bye
Qlex: i have a better proposition: why don't you put at the beggining of your videos an explanation that it was made without tools and using a trained, skillful player? that way you'll be hapy to also add a seal of quality to the video that proves it was checked and is legitimate. don't bother us, we already provide enough information on the videos and everywhere, it's not our fault if people don't like to read.
First : I'm a TASer, I'm playing Dick Tracy, and although I seem to be dead about my project, it's still alive : I'm working in order to finish stage 1. So I understand how it feels when I have a message like "cheated". I'm also planning to do some real-time speedrunning but not right now. I think I know how you people may feel (I understand Angerfist by the way), and how m2k2sda may feel about the events. Wanted to clear things again.
Second : These are not my videos : I don't represent m2k2sda, I want to find a compromise without making people angry or bothering them, but I think my ideas will disappear in a short time (I'm writing for 5 mins, but I think 4 new messages were posted here). If not it's okay, do whatever you want to do. Hate people that hate TAS, they will hate you.
Third : That's some excuse for me, but there shouldn't be that kind of video about real-time speedruns because everybody knows that the player is playing with his (her) controller etc... I said about it in my first post.
I'm not bound to order you to change all of your videos, but I would be ready to warn people while not taking benefit at all for it. If you don't want to do that about your videos, I would for mine. By that way I don't clearly understand, and am a bit frustrated, when I see nice players like you saying that it's not your problem : Some also say that around m2k2sda.
Please get in mind that your videos are particular and that I want to differenciate them, not segregate them.
But well seeing that the topic doesn't look friendly anymore I may get out of that topic. I don't want to insult or make you people hate some other people here. Sorry if it wasn't that confortable for a solution, I didn't want this to happen.
I considered using a camera, but I don't even have one, I don't know how to use softwares including Flash and I'm busy with high school. That's why I asked other people to think about it, and I'm truly sorry I can't provide a movie right now.
Well somebody may have a try. I approve the fact that it's going to be difficult anyway, but I might see if that seems to be clearer when I see a 15 secs movie.
To Nach : That's why my proposition was said to be imperfect, but I think we need to put it. I know it's annoying, but I think warning unaware people is worth showing in fifteen secs something boring.
