Posts for Ramzi

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Posted: 4/7/2004 2:00 AM
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Ramzi
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
I have spent wayyyy too much time thinking about this. I'm going to stop now unless people volunteer to help me. It seems like there is very little interest in this game, or at least very few who are knowledgable on it. I think it's save to say that the fastest route is narrowed down to these two: 34165287 34125876 We will know the faster of the two until once we know whether getting the third sword is faster or not. I watched a video that's not yet posted of someone beating it 30 seconds faster than your last movie. He picks up all the hearts around the east coast (which takes a lot of walking time) to get the third sword very early in the game. The only reason why he's 30 seconds faster is your last route was particularly horrendous, no offense. The route we came to would be a lot faster than his, but it would require getting the third sword a lot later in the game. In short, IF the game is fastest without getting ANY sword upgrades, the *new* fastest route I found is 34165287. If the game is fastest with the third sword, our old route of 34125876 is fastest. The old route would be fastest because the third sword is more on path, and therefore requires a less of a detour than my new route. (By warping to 6 and go to the sword after completing level 7.) Look at the map to see what I mean. TSA posted on the ZHQ boards about doing all of those levels with the first sword. My timing estimates show that doing the levels (particularly 5 and 8 because of the blue darknuts) with the first sword is still faster than making the detours for the other swords (and heart containers.) However, I do not know whether or not the third sword is a speed requirement for the last level.
Posted: 4/6/2004 3:02 AM
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Ramzi
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
Oh damn. I wish I had checked this thread sooner. I just made it to the first pirate level. I've been using the glitch. It's cool to watch Buster practically fly through the level. Well, Frenom, since you already did this run, I'm gonna call it a night.
Posted: 4/1/2004 1:52 AM
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Ramzi
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
Okay. I updated the file. There are only 672 combinations now.
Posted: 3/31/2004 10:38 PM
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Ramzi
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
Lordy Lordy Lordy. Micheal Fried, I need your screenname. I read TSA's comment on the Mario Kart board about how we cheaters will never know the fastest route. How TSA discovered this fastest route is beyond me. I am willing to bet it's not the fastest route, unless he did the same thing I did, and he probably didn't. If you did every combination of 123, you'd have 123 132 213 231 312 321 That's a lot. Now, think of how many combinations there are for 9 levels of Zelda 1. That's 9 factorial. I didn't bother with 9 factorial since I knew 9 must be the final level completed. So it's 8 factorial, which is 40,320 different combinations. But there are some rules you must follow. For example, 4 cannot come before 3, because it's impossible to do in the game. A friend wrote a program to eliminate all of the combinations that broke my rules. Here are the rules I came up with: 3 has to be before 4 4 has to be before 5 4 has to be before 6 4 has to be before 7 5 has to be before 7 9 has to be last I don't think I'm missing any rules, but if I am, tell me. I could run them through to eliminate other bad combinations. After eliminating every combination which broke the rules listed above, I'm left with 1008 different level combinations for Zelda 1. See all of them here: http://www.geocities.com/its_ramzi/DATA.html Now, I did not include other things, like heart pieces, bombs, bait, arrows, or candle. I imagine those will be determined based upon how convenient they are on the route. The only levels you can start off with are 1, 2, 3, and 8. I don't think it would be necessary to check all 1008 to find the shortest, since some would be obviously be too long, but I'm certain that THE fastest level combo is in one of those 1008. I'm sure that did a whole lot of good narrowing it down, eh?
Posted: 3/28/2004 2:14 AM
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Ramzi
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Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
>> Actually, I just realized that my route won't >> work because you need the bait for level 7. Maybe you misread my post or skimmed it or something, but you can get the bait right by Level 2. Since Level 2 comes before Level 7 on your route, there's no problem.
Posted: 3/27/2004 12:20 AM
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Ramzi
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
No, I don't think I'll be doing a speed run of it. I'll just help thinking of optimizations. You've clearly spent more time thinking about this than I have. Instead of making that big detour after Level 7 to get the arrows and bait... Why not get the arrows on the way from Level 1 to Level 2? There's a store that sells bait in a bush buy Level 2. It's a bit more expensive, but maybe it would save time. Just something to consider.
Posted: 3/26/2004 2:29 AM
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Ramzi
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
I was editing my previous post when you responded. Look at it again.
Posted: 3/26/2004 1:49 AM
(Edited: 3/26/2004 2:24 AM)
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Ramzi
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
That's brilliant! A good way to get money would be to do Level 3 first, get some bombs from moblins, then instead of going directly to Level 4, go to the gambling underneath it. After gambling, get the blue candle from right above. Then, after beating Level 1, go to the store where the blue spider guys are by going the top route (through the desert.) Then, go the bottom route from the store to Level 2, rather than the top. I *think* that's the shortest way. Check for yourself just to make sure. Your new route seems very efficient. It eliminates the long walk from Level 8 to Level 3, and then the other long walk from Level 4 to Level 5. (By the way, I just realized that the power bracelet isn't near Level 5, so nevermind what I said in my previous post.)
Posted: 3/25/2004 9:31 PM
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Ramzi
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
Thank the Lord. I had spent a few hours typing up a speed run strategy guide for the game the other day. I was planning on doing my own run that would beat your time. But if you're gonna go for another one, I'd prefer it. (Movies take a long time to make!) About the Magical Key... I too thought this would be the fastest route even before you made your video. And in all practicality, it is... For a human. But when you're doing a god-like video, perhaps it's not. It's an eight screen detour to get the key. I went through the levels and counting the number of keys and the number of doors that require keys. Using the door glitch in Level 1, there are enough keys on the optimal path, so you don't need to make any detours for other keys, or the Magical Key. (Although I think, for example, making a detour to kill the three keese in Level 1 for a key may be faster than killing a room full of difficult baddies in another place.) Still thinking about TSA's run, though. I wish he wasn't so secretive. I tried thinking of a faster route. Staring at the overworld map forever seemed to do little. I do think I have found one shortcut, though. If you make a one screen detour when you're up by Level 5 (after completing Level 2) you can pick up the power bracelet. Then, instead of walking all the way to Level 5 from Level 4, you can walk to a warp spot and warp there. I think this may shave significant time off the journey. Doing all of that, plus using Up+A, I think a sub-30 run is possible. Josh, I also considered doing Level 5 sooner, but you cannot complete it when you're up there getting the white sword. You need the ladder to cross lava moats. Keep thinking, though.
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