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User movie #31060386670699013
I salvaged your tasproj into a normal .bk2, you can open it back up in TAStudio (just make sure to set the Open menu to All Files instead of just tasproj files) and continue working from there. Only downside is that the author name and re-record count were wiped, but those can be put back easily.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | CohostwarmCabin wrote:
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theruseman wrote:
Sorry about removing the judging! Realized I forgot to include the screenshot so I went back and edited it, but I guess I clicked the link before you added "judging" so when I submitted the new one it wasn't in there.
It's no trouble at all, actually my bad for assuming it was intentional. It happened on a previous submission I was judging, which coincidentally also happened to be Pac-Man related.
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Please try to only bring up ROM hacks that significantly change the game. Hacks that do nothing but change the graphics or make things harder aren't acceptable. They need to be notable and drastically different from the base game in multiple ways.
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andypanther wrote:
To go back to the topic of timed sports games:
Imagine if someone manages to make an optimal speed TAS of a Madden game, using complex AI, lag and luck manipulation, a clearly superhuman and very technical TAS. Why should such a run not deserve publication, while any simple platformer is acceptable?
The problem is in the timer itself. The introduction of a mandatory timer that has to run out before the game is finished just removes all the elements of a speedrun: There's no sense of going fast at all since you're confined to a single field. Score has to be minimized in order to keep the clock running. Strategies end up becoming trivial very fast, where every single game for a sport ends up having exactly the same strategy for fastest completion, barring the introduction of a glitch or exploit that makes one game stand out from the rest.
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goldenband wrote:
So you can see why exclusionary criteria based on "entertainment" are, for me, an unwelcome obstacle: I don't want anyone else deciding for me what I get to see based on their notions of "entertainment", which may (and often do) wholly differ from mine.
But you still get to see the run, if it's made. You frequent this site, you watch submissions as they come in. In a sense, a run that's submitted is still permanently housed on the site. It's just not put out to the public and requires a little bit more work to find.
You have to consider that our rules should never be preventing people from making the runs they want to make. If someone wants to make 11 Madden runs, they're more than welcome to. We may not publish any of them, but they can still be shown on the forums or put on YouTube for anyone interested to see, and anyone interested in these runs can find them as long as they're being made.
But as I've said a million times before, our community is the TAS community, not the sports game community or the Super Metroid community. As far as I'm concerned, the Venn diagram of the TAS community and the sports game community is the number 8, and we need a more outspoken majority (and some solid proof) to really consider changing the rule.
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goldenband wrote:
I don't particularly agree: for me, what sets TAS apart is the quest for perfection, not entertainment. I've seen plenty of human-powered speedruns that also entertain me by design, i.e. by choosing the more entertaining option between two otherwise-equal alternatives. So the only thing that TAS offers beyond that, in terms of entertainment, is entertainment that requires skills not possessed by humans.
The quest for perfection is the epitome of human speedruns. We generally have a much easier time with attaining perfection, in that we have the perk of not having any limits to our reflexes, and thus we have to go the extra mile to set ourselves apart.
Entertainment and optimization/speed are equal to us. I may have accidentally implied that we cared far more about entertainment, whoops. The Vault's introduction is what sealed the deal for us treating things more equally, though I expect that when people come to see TASes, they come to see something that's superhuman. Like Invariel said, humans can fail, and there's excitement and entertainment in watching a human player speed through something without any fear of danger, knowing they could fail at any time. TASes don't fail. They will always get to the end of the game every time. This means we have to make up for that lack of danger in other ways, either by creating art or doing the impossible. This is why entertainment is so important to us as a general rule.
I think more people than you might suspect agree with me. And -- in case I sound like some inhuman omnivore, indifferent to fun -- I say this as someone whose single favorite run on the site is probably the famous "Own goal?!" SNES soccer TAS!
A lot of people love that starred, award-winning run with an 8.7 average rating. But this is about the Vault.
Anyway, I think the biggest thing is that no one should be claiming that different games in a series don't have substantial differences unless they've actually played those games. Experience has taught me that a lot of what's written about sports games is superficial nonsense, so I wouldn't trust Wikipedia, casual reviews, or "conventional wisdom" to offer up accurate information about the differences between series entries.
I'm speaking as someone who used to play a lot of sports games as a kid, and I know from experience that the most major differences between games in a series comes from the jump to a new platform. You can't expect everyone who visits this site and votes on runs to play every game in a series to determine whether or not they're worth publishing alongside each other. Hell, you can't expect people here to actually play any sports game in the first place, save for adelikat maybe (give us those A2600 sports games submissions once you're done with DW4).
We'll let this rule come up when people actually start submitting sports games runs, but bear in mind that across 12 years of site history, this new rule brought forth only 5 unrejections, two of which were submitted this year. The rest of the runs we looked at were ineligible under one new rule or another. I don't even think we had any cancelled sports game runs that were eligible, so the 5 that made it back into rotation are the only ones. I'd be legitimately shocked if the one game per series per console rule ever actually comes into play.
And remember, this is for the Vault. The Vault, inherently, doesn't allow extraneous publications. If every game in a series gets an entertaining playaround, they can all be published alongside, even if it's a series of basketball games or some other trivial sport. These rules don't apply to entertaining games.
For you to truly argue that games in the same series on the same console deserve publication alongside each other, you're going to have to actually provide proof of this. Not just proof that the games are different, but proof that the TASes will be different as well. To recap:
* The series has to be of a sport that follows our other rules
* The games have to be substantially different, not just graphics and roster updates but entire engine overhauls
* The TASes have to look substantially different as well: I'd personally say the solutions have to be different across both runs but that's not an official metric
* Both TASes have to stand proudly on their own merits and be equally technically impressive, if there's a clearly better choice then that's the one we'll always go with
If you or anyone else provides ample proof of that, then yeah we can absolutely make an exception. There may be one or two series' out there that fulfill those criteria, but I am completely convinced there are nowhere near enough of those series' to make us remove or change the rule.
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goldenband wrote:
I can't speak to Madden, but I can tell you that there would certainly be meaningful differences in execution between these games:
Bases Loaded 1, II, III, IV
Tennis. Trivial solution, ineligible unless made non-trivial.
HardBall series
Sounds like baseball again, so ineligible.
It just seems like this is driven by a desire to keep the site focused on certain kinds of games and not others.
You mean focused on unique games instead of the exact same ones over and over again?
But then, I personally would like to see every released game have its own TAS, and entertainment treated as a secondary, not primary concern.
I don't necessarily disagree with you on that first point, but entertainment has always been a primary concern for us, and it always will be. The Vault was implemented 8 years into the site's existence, before that there were far more limitations on everything, and that's because the site was founded on entertainment as a principle, because entertainment value is what sets us (and TASes in general) apart from normal speedruns. We create art wherever we can in our runs, things that can only be done with superhuman timing and precision. Otherwise, we'd just be a more optimized speedrun.com/SDA. We can't just remove entertainment as a focus because of that.
I still don't understand why this is the most divisive rule, especially when most sports that have a series of games attached to them are already banned under the rules for being timed/trivial. If you can find me a game series that not only fits every other rule we have, but also has at least two completely distinctive, drastically different playing games in it, then perhaps we can make an exception. But I just don't see that happening ever.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | CohostwarmCabin wrote:
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theruseman wrote:
I'm running into an issue where it is extremely choppy for some segments.
Do you mean in the actual dumped video, or are you talking about Dolphin itself while dumping video? If it's the latter, then that shouldn't have any effect on the actual video file.
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goldenband wrote:
Kind of a funny double bind, that: if it's the same as others in the series, it gets cut; if it's different, it also gets cut (unless it's the best). I assume we'll be cutting two of the Donkey Kong Country games, then?
Your analogy's off in this case. We're talking about Vault here. I would say that this is more akin to how we don't allow non-standard categories in Vault: For a particularly crap game, every category ends up looking the same with minor differences. But even if it's a huge difference, it's still a crap game, and we reject the category. The same thing goes for a sports series: Even if they're different, they're never different enough to warrant separate publications to Vault.
You could also compare it to how we handle ports in Vault: We generally take the most technically superior port of a game, regardless of the console it's on. If it's entertaining enough, we can publish it alongside in Moons. If Madden '91 gets a ridiculous playaround that makes it to Moons, then we can still publish Madden '92 in Vault alongside it, but having both in Vault just doesn't make sense when they're almost exactly the same game.
I don't think the rule limits nearly as many things as people seem to be complaining about, but then again when has this site ever not found a way to complain about positive change?
andypanther wrote:
What if someone found a non-trivial way to speed up a game that normally runs on a timer? Shouldn't the game be accepted in such a case?
Speeding up the timer is still unacceptable (as far as I'm concerned at least). A lot of older sports games run on faster/shorter timers anyway, and a lot of them also give you the ability to change the timer. More than that, though, a timer-based sport inherently means it's not a speedrun, as there's no way to make it faster other than by changing the length of the timer. Even if you can change the timer non-arbitrarily, it's still there, and as such anyone who could do that would be able to beat the game in the exact same amount of time.
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Warp wrote:
Mothrayas wrote:
Sports games in the Vault are restricted to one game per series per platform.
Is there a reason for this? If the games are different enough from each other, why not...
Games in the same series on the same console are pretty much all the same game/engine, just with roster/team/stat updates across the board. If they're different from each other, that means that one game has to be superior to the rest, which is the one we would want published most of all. For the most part, the biggest differences in a series come from jumping from one console generation to the next, i.e SNES to N64, and the rules allow games in the same series as long as they're on different consoles.
I more or less treat this rule the same way as our ROM hack rules: We allow the "best" of the group and limit the rest so we're not flooded with low-quality hacks/sports games. Granted, I doubt people are going to be submitting sports games often enough for this to be an issue, but I personally think having that small limit in place will be better in the long run.
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Never said you were going off topic, I just said to stay on topic. It's fine to ask for a reason, but the insults are going too far. Just keep things civil, please.
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Stay on topic, don't call each other slurs, don't throw out wild accusations and keep the petty arguments to an extreme minimum... Preferably non-existent. This is directed at everyone. We don't need another gigantic derailing shitstorm in this thread, and we don't need another one in general so soon after the last one.
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There have been allusions to a much faster way of entering the moat door, though I'm not sure if it was confirmed working or if it was just speculation they were attempting, or if I'm even remembering this correctly in the first place.
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Link to video
If you're attentive, you can see literally 2 frames of the room I wanted to get into.
I suppose I should give a progress report with this. I'm trying to at least get up through the end of the game as a test. Once I finish that, I'll go back through everything in S6 and optimize it to the best of my ability. Due to the zip glitch being active (it literally never goes away, even if you die) and the huge skips in S5 and S6 removing power-up routing ability, there are going to be some seconds lost compared to the published run in the common rooms/fights. I'm estimating the final time to be around 4:25.
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Schmeman wrote:
Yeah it's no joke that the Ridley and Mother Brain fights are rather boring in low%, especially considering there will be no ice, so it's a good 300 shots (on MB) and nearly that many on Ridley (considering you can use missiles/supers/pbs on ridley). I agree that it might be worth considering overflow if not to eliminate the tedium of these fights, but I'm not sure.
I feel like that's enough to push it over the edge for me and say it'd be better to use overflow for a low% run, having it remove heavy amounts of tedium on two boss fights would do wonders for the entertainment level and I'm still firmly in the camp that the general audience would love to see the glitch anyway. Whether or not it is or isn't a "major glitch" is all a personal matter. It seems like it saves a lot of time in the long run without skipping areas, though, and I think that counts more for the "spirit of low%" than anything else. It's just like how we have "warpless" runs that skip stages in other ways: As long as no in-game warps are used, it's still a warpless run. So in my mind, even with overflow it'd still be a low% run since you're getting those missiles through other, unconventional means that don't add to completion percentage.
I'd honestly recommend doing theory TASes with and without overflow and post them here for us to decide which one ends up the fastest/most entertaining. It may be a lot of effort, but it'll pay off far more in the end.
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Speaking personally, I don't think the overflow glitch should be barred as a "major glitch" on the same level as something like the game end glitch or x-ray climbing, but I understand and accept if the community wants to leave it out of the low% run. Generally we listen to the game community's definition of each category instead of making our own rules for them. It's only the number of categories we publish that's in our control, not what they contain. I get the funny feeling I've overexaggerated that point for some reason, not sure why.
I would like to see the glitch in one published run, it doesn't necessarily have to be low% but if it saves time in any other category then I really feel like it should be used. Low% can get away with leaving it behind in favor of a more exciting, technically impressive run, but use it wherever else it saves time.
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Schmeman wrote:
By repeating yourself over and over you're ignoring underlying questions and concerns.
Then please bring these underlying questions and concerns to the forefront so that I may address them. All I have personally seen in this thread is concerns and criticisms over our methods of categorizing movies. Obviously I've missed something in the ongoing storm of this thread.
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