Posts for Samsara

Samsara
She/They
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Warp wrote:
That's not the point. The point is that Samsara made some accusations about unequal treatment and how those threads "are the perfect answer to why there aren't more female TASers". I don't think the insinuation was that the reason is that people repeat lame internet memes. Samsara takes gender issues seriously, and so do I. Don't think such accusations should be thrown lightly, because they are pretty serious. "It's pretty lame humor" does not warrant throwing such accusations.
It happens often enough and everywhere enough that it turns from just "lame humor" into what I consider to be a serious issue. The internet has this weird obsession with completely discrediting females: Girls who reveal their gender on other sites are usually met with "lol nope you're just pretending to be a girl", some people go as far as to call any girl who reveals her gender an attention whore (which was brought up by synnchan/Sonia in the grue'd thread), there are all these really terrifying instances of men going way too far with it if you look in the right places. This place just so happens to be relatively free of all that horrid misogyny and I'd like to see it kept that way. I apologize if what I said was taken as an accusation towards anyone on the site or in the community, though I still stand by my comment that the "lame humor" is quite discouraging for women who may want to address and be proud of their gender. My point was that there are probably a lot more girls here, but general male behavior keeps them silent about who they are.
Warp wrote:
Previously in this thread I wrote about how I always assume by default that anonymous people on the internet are male. Would you accuse me of "unequal treatment" for writing that?
Everyone does that. It's just an assumption, it's not like you're disagreeing with them if they state their real gender. I think it's partially an issue of how people perceive what is written and partially an issue of the internet itself being generally male-focused, with gaming culture in particular being especially male-focused. There was an offhand statement in one of those threads about a user being perceived as female because of their effeminate manner of speaking on the forums, and that got me thinking... That might be the main reason why people assume people are one gender or the other. It's happened to me on multiple occasions that whenever I'm expressing my happiness, or just generally typing excitedly and showing emotion, I'm generally referred to as female. When I'm more reserved and passive (or angry), I'm generally referred to as male. For the most part, all the posts on the forums are passive and "emotionless", thus the general assumption that everyone here is male.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
She/They
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Samsara wrote:
Clearly, Vault tier and gender are related and it's impossible for me to have different opinions regarding both. My inability to accept something I perceive to be broken and negative means it is impossible for me to accept that certain people may be certain genders. It is a burden I must carry with me for the rest of my life.
Take pity on me, as it is shameful that I have two differing opinions on two different topics. The pain I suffer through on a daily basis is enough, I do not need more on top of that. Woe is me, for I battled gender dysphoria for years of my life and thus I have strong opinions about gender equality, and simultaneously I am cursed to be unable to accept a minor part of a fucking website.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
She/They
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Clearly, Vault tier and gender are related and it's impossible for me to have different opinions regarding both. My inability to accept something I perceive to be broken and negative means it is impossible for me to accept that certain people may be certain genders. It is a burden I must carry with me for the rest of my life.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
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^^I haven't seen actual examples on the site of unequal treatment, that was just a general statement. I just wasn't too happy with the threads due to those "NO WOMEN ON THE INTERNET" statements. I've never liked that "joke" and it just feeds into everyone assuming everyone else is male. It's just a personal thing, in short. I take gender somewhat seriously, having gone through issues with it myself while growing up, and overall I just think there shouldn't be any difference between how you treat anyone. If someone says they're female, then it should just be like "Okay cool, now how did you find that sweet glitch in Banjo-Kazooie?" Most girls I've talk to don't want to be put on pedestals or treated kindly just because they're girls, especially the ones involved in the gaming community. Let me rephrase what I said: It's not that gender shouldn't matter, it's that we should just accept it and move on.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
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I just provided a possible reason why you might not have seen any issues with the system. I never implied that you'd agree with me if you did see any issues and I never implied you were ignorant for not seeing any.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
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Patashu wrote:
Are you confusing MESHUGGAH with MUGG? The difference is, MESHUGGAH needs to get back to work on SM64DS,
Are you confusing MESHUGGAH with ALAKTORN?
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
She/They
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Bobo the King wrote:
these two threads
Those two threads are the perfect answer to "Why aren't there more female TASers?" There most likely are, they're just choosing not to mention their gender because shit like that happens. "There are no women on the internet" on the first page of both threads. God. Is it really that hard to treat everyone equally? This is a site for talking about emulation and speedrunning. Gender shouldn't matter.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
She/They
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You're probably not seeing any flaws with the current system because you've never actively looked for any flaws in it. Even if flaws don't come up often, the fact that there are still flaws is telling, especially when the flaws come up consistently. If there were odd, unrelated flaws popping up every now and then, this wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem. The flaws that do pop up, however, are almost always the same. The only difference between Vault and Moons right now is subjectivity, since both tiers have arguably the exact same requirements apart from the entertainment of the game. This leads to borderline cases like Hydlide, where a judge's opinion may go against the public opinion for one reason or another (and props to turska for explaining his reasoning later on in that thread). The fact that tiering is purely subjective is inherently negative, since getting thrown in the Vault is basically being told that people don't like your run. Look back through any Vaulted run and count how many people specifically say things like "This wasn't entertaining, throw it in Vault" and then come back and tell me that Vault is positive. The site and the community actively paint the tier as low-quality and non-entertaining, which is... you guessed it, flawed. If there's always going to be subjectivity, why not take actions to reduce it instead of leaving everything the way it is?
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
She/They
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Honestly, just Male/Female covers pretty much everything (transmen and transwomen identify as specifically male or female and don't like being referred to as trans), and Other/I'm Not Sure are good alternate options that cover the rest of the spectrum without being discriminatory. More specific gender options can be added if anyone asks for them.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
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It'd help more if it was displayed on the user's posts, near the post count/location and all that. I don't think too many people go around checking profiles to find out what gender everyone is, especially in a predominantly male community. Male/Female/Other works fine.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
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Yes, let's continue trusting the poll results, where 14 people voted that the flawed system is absolutely perfect without even bothering to post their flawed reasoning. Let's just ignore the valid points brought up in the thread by the people who actually give enough of a damn to express an opinion on the matter.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
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The proposed new system would essentially be putting all the runs together, since it actually gives proper, set-in-stone criteria to Vault/Coins(?) and Moons and wouldn't leave anything up to opinion. An accepted run would be definitively Coins (by being specifically an any% or 100% run) or definitively Moons (by being a playaround or a "non-standard" category). The tiers are effectively equal, with awesome runs being contained in both, and more people being likely to check through both tiers instead of looking at Vault and thinking "Yeah, these runs are probably safe to ignore". I'm not sure how anyone would feel slighted under the new system apart from not getting a Star, and even then I don't think anyone on the site is egotistical enough to demand a Star for their run.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
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I don't think the Vault itself presents the runs negatively. I think it's a step back from that: The site presents the Vault negatively. Several authors, myself included, see Vault as negative due to how the site presents it as the "lowest tier", and thus in some way we're discouraged from making runs for fear of having them end up there. I know that's not the intent, of course, but implications can have as much of an effect on people as something that's clearly stated and set in stone. Changing movie descriptions wouldn't help too much if people aren't looking at the runs in the first place. For example, how often do you think people look up Olympic bronze medalists out of genuine interest? They could have wonderfully written Wikipedia articles (there's an oxymoron) or insightful and inspiring articles/interviews, but they're still mostly going to be ignored since people generally want the best of the best. EDIT: That being said, I'm all for giving movies insightful descriptions, especially if random runs are going to be featured on the front page.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
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Well, why not just have a "Random Movie" section for all Vault/Moon movies instead of specifically featuring Vault? That way, every run on the site that isn't a Star/Recommended has far more of a chance of being discovered. There are a lot of Moon runs that don't get a lot of attention, after all. 9/10 of the runs listed there are Moon runs, some of them having been published for over half a year. I'd love to see more attention paid to Vault movies, of course, but singling them out feels more like an act of pity to me, and it leaves out all the nice Moon runs that are being skipped over. Plus, if the new system is implemented, a Random Movie section would be able to stay just fine.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
She/They
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Featuring random Vault runs doesn't magically free them from the curse of being in the lowest tier. It'd just give more people a chance to see the runs and rate them ridiculously low scores like most Vault runs get. Also, it actually runs into the issue brought up by thatguy earlier: Assuming the front page is the first thing everyone sees, they'll see a "Featured Run" and think it's going to be great, and then it'll be Toobin' or Where's Waldo and they won't exactly have a great opinion of the site anymore. If another Featured category exists, I'd prefer if it showcased runs with high ratings, like 7+ average, as that would show off entertaining runs without driving off newcomers by showcasing Gotcha! The Sport. I'm liking the feos/Warp tier re-organization idea more and more. It solves pretty much every problem I had with the Vault: The demotivating name and icon, the edge cases between Vault and Moons for a lot of runs, Vault runs not appearing in the Movies tab by default, Vault being the distinctly lowest tier and thus people assuming all the runs in it are shit... Plus, the new system basically retools Moon into a proper Demo/Playaround tier which is a huge plus in my opinion.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
She/They
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feos wrote:
What?
...Now that I think about it, forget I said that. My point was that there could be things like Donkey Kong Country "ONG%" or Sonic the Hedgehog "all rings except for 394 of them" coming through, but I'm sure people would just ask for any really arbitrary categories not to be published. As for everything else, fair enough. I don't think it's necessary for me to read the Judge Guidelines another time, though, especially when it's in response to a new system that might not even happen.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
She/They
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How would obsoletions be handled for things like playarounds? Does this allow for more ROMhacks? If someone just makes up a brand new arbitrary category and people find it entertaining/optimal, does it still get published or does it have to have some sort of importance? Would there be a limit on new categories for games? I'm probably seriously overthinking this, to be honest.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
She/They
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Thank you, Mothrayas.
Warp wrote:
It seems to me that we may be reaching a consensus where the Vault tier will be renamed and the distinction between the new "Vault" and the Moon tiers will be changed to be about goals rather than about reception. So, in a sense, a big part of the current Moon runs will be merged to the "new Vault" (whatever its new name will be; "coins" seems to be a popular suggestion, but personally I find it a bit odd...) and the rest of the Moon runs will remain where they are. Perhaps the poll options should reflect this possibility more clearly?
I think the "Rename Vault/change its appearance" reflects that possibility. Speaking of, I kinda like that idea but I feel like it'd have to be really fleshed out to work: If the criteria is just "not any% or 100% for Moons" then how much would we be accepting? Would this be the (if my memory serves me correctly) often asked for Demo Tier/Playaround Tier or would it just follow the same criteria we have now? It wouldn't be like just renaming Vault to something more positive: It'd change the actual tiering system altogether, and if the guidelines and qualifications didn't change with it then I feel like it'd be somewhat arbitrary. A big step what I feel is the right direction, but still somewhat arbitrary.
thatguy wrote:
Now, imagine you are a newcomer to the site and have never heard of TASing before. You are instructed to watch a few stars and you will have your mind blown most probably, and your interest will be piqued. You might go searching for movies of the NES games you played when you were a kid, and stumble across "Where in Time is Carmen Sandiego?" which, under the new system, is categorised with a bunch of very entertaining movies... -snip- ...For a person dipping his toe in the TAS waters, early exposure to WITICS could kill off all interest that person has. We HAVE to think of our audience over and above ourselves, and that includes giving newcomers the best possible impression of TASing that we can.
The mind doesn't work that way. If your first impression of something is positive, then your future impressions will ultimately remain positive even if you're exposed to the negative aspects. If you've eaten 10 great flavors of ice cream, one bad flavor wouldn't immediately make you hate all ice cream. You'd just avoid that one flavor from that point on. I've been around for 8 years, starting by just lurking when I was an idiot teenager and signing up a few years later, and only once in those 8 years have I seen someone honestly complain about a single published run destroying the integrity of the site, and that happened this month. I'm all for the "think of the audience" mindset but I really don't see your hypothetical scenario as a legitimate problem.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
She/They
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People still seem to be under the impression that removing Vault means removing all the runs contained within. Runs will not be removed or unpublished. This has been stated by site staff on multiple occasions. What I meant by "removing Vault" was just removing the tier itself and merging all the Vault and Moon runs into a singular default category that still accepts all runs that would normally qualify for Vault. I apologize for the awkward wording. I'd appreciate if this were added to the OP (I can't edit it anymore) and the poll, as I think the voting reflects my accidental implication.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
She/They
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Pokota wrote:
I think the problem is that it's far easier less work to submit a WIP to the workbench than it is to put a WIP into microstorage and post in the relevant thread, moreso since microstorage does not (yet) accept the new bizhawk playback format. Counterexamples/counterarguments, please?
Userfiles require less effort than actual submissions to the site. In some cases, though, newer users submit runs to both userfiles and the workbench simultaneously, or submit some run to userfiles and a different run to the site shortly after. I don't think it's because it's "less work" to submit a run to the site than it is to post on the forums: Newer TASers honestly believe they're putting in as much effort as anyone else. They're proud of their work and want to show it off, like a child giving their drawings to their parents to put up on the refrigerator. I just think they look at TASes on Youtube, think "I can do that!" and knock one out in a day or so before submitting to the site, disregarding any of the guidelines. They're the same kind of people who watch a video on Youtube and ask questions that are directly answered in the video description, except people here are generally nice to new submitters. It'll just take some time for them to come around and hopefully start making quality runs. It wouldn't hurt if people got a little more involved in helping them out since it looks like most of them are non-native English speakers and most of the information on the site is in English, but given that we have multiple counter-examples there's definitely a possibility of more turnarounds in the futue.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
She/They
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Yeah, it looks like you're gonna have to go the entertainment route. Sometimes you just can't beat determinism. It's the reason why I stopped working on Splatterhouse. I wouldn't stress out too much over how to entertain: Just do what you think is awesome or funny and other people will usually agree.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
She/They
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hegyak wrote:
On the positive, the valut does allow "bad" games to be submitted and accepted. On the negative, vault runs get less attention then their Moon and Star brothers.
I feel like the negative there outweighs the positive: We can still accept "bad" games using the Vault guidelines without needing to put them in a lower tier that hardly gets any attention. I'm having trouble putting all my thoughts into words, so a full rambly post will have to wait until tomorrow, but my main problem with Vault is how much negativity it implies. I know it's not intentional, but it's still there in my opinion. "Vault" as a name implies that the runs are just going to be locked up and forgot about. "Vault" as the lowest tier implies that the runs are comparatively low quality compared to Moons or Stars and thus aren't worth watching or rating. "Vault" as a tier in general imprints a certain kind of bias on the viewer, and post-publication ratings plummet because of it: People will even rate Vault runs low on technical quality, when the entire point of the tier is to showcase runs that are high technical quality but may not be entertaining. Aesthetically, Vault is the only major tier that isn't part of the Mario theme. The icon is dark and grayscale, whereas the other icons are bright and cheery. It's jarring to say the least. If we're going to keep the tier, I'd at least recommend changing the name and icon. Something like Mushroom or Flower would be consistent with the Mario theme and have a lot more positivity attached.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Post subject: Vault Tier Discussion
Samsara
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It's been a while since the Vault was introduced, and the recent Hydlide submission has called the system into question. A few valid criticisms were brought up regarding tiering and there was a suggestion that a discussion thread be made. I've held off on making the thread since I figured it should be posted by site staff, but I got indirect permission to post it... So, here it is. How does everyone feel about the Vault tier or tiering in general? What's good about it? What's bad about it? Should we keep Vault or remove it? I'll post my thoughts separately after I write them up. ---- Mod edit: Added poll. -Mothrayas Note that by "removing the Vault", what is meant is just removing the tier itself and merging all the Vault and Moon runs into a singular default category that still accepts all runs that would normally qualify for Vault. Runs will not be removed or unpublished.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
She/They
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adelikat wrote:
Samsara wrote:
That's why I want the opinion thread.
Then start one? That's better more appropriate than using this publication thread to further a cause.
Samsara wrote:
I'd do it myself, but I feel like that's Judge/Admin territory.
That was the only thing keeping me back. I guess that's permission though, so I'll make the thread now.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Samsara
She/They
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adelikat wrote:
Lastly, for every inconsistency someone has pointed out, there's a 100 examples of the system working well and as intended. Given the amount of content and the fact that this stuff is subjective, I'm very happy with that level of success rate. I haven't seen enough examples to suggest anything other than an overwhelming success of this system.
I'd still like to see the rest of the community's opinion on the system, because as a outside observer/non-staff member I haven't seen enough examples to suggest that the system is actually succeeding. Maybe it's working well from your perspective or other peoples' perspective, but it's clearly shown in the thread that not everyone thinks that way. I've personally only seen it negatively, and I will fully admit that may be because I've been against the system from the beginning and I just don't remember any of the positives. That's why I want the opinion thread. Multiple people have said they feel there's a need to re-examine the tiering system, and honestly it wouldn't hurt at all to do so. I can't personally think of any positive aspects, but I know I'd be able to consider them if I saw other people talking about it. It's a discussion worth having, I think, especially now that it's been a while since the implementation of the system and we can look back on everything. I do agree about the ratings, though. I'd love for more people to rate movies reliably, but as it stands post-publication ratings are rare and usually too extreme to judge fairly.
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warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.